"Pursuit of Perfection"

[captmojo]

I'll add Roy Williams. Just 'cause.

[rockymtn devil]

I think we're missing something in the whole Modell-Cleveland move, and it was not nearly as transparent as it's been portrayed here.

First, Modell pushed hard to have the city fund either a new stadium or improvements to Municipal Stadium. The City of Cleveland finally agreed to put it up as a ballot initiative and Modell put to rest any discussion of the team moving. The ballot initiative was a slam dunk to pass (other than the Steelers, there is not a city that loves its sports franchise more than Cleveland loves the Browns).

But, despite a) getting the funding issue put to the public and b) assuring the City that he wouldn't move if he got his money (which he was going to), Modell entered into secret negotiations to move the team to Baltimore. He announced the move the day before the vote on the funding in an attempt to dampen public support for it so he could later use the rejection of the funding as a pretext for the move. Instead, as expected, the ballot initiative passed by an huge margin, and Modell was left with egg on his face.

So, I don't see it as any different than the Baltimore move to Indianapolis. Modell promised the City he wouldn't move if he got his money, but secretly orchestrated the move and attempted to manipulate the vote by timing the announcement of the move when he did. Sleazy.

As a Steelers fan, there isn't a team I hate more than the Ravens, and Modell's treatment of a City that did nothing but support his team and line his pockets, is a large reason why (Ray Lewis is the other large reason).

[rockymtn devil]

[Miles]

Irsay wanted/demanded a new stadium, though wasn't able to fill the one they had, Memorial Stadium. In fact, if anyone deserved a new stadium it was the O's. They had just won the World Series, and had no problem filling the seats.

Irsay could have fought the the law as, though I'm not a lawyer, I doubt the eminent domain law would have held up had it been challenged.

The legislature couldn't stand by and watch a company that brought in millions of dollars into the economy in Baltimore and the State of Maryland. As a result of losing the Colts, teams didn't travel to Baltimore, fans of those teams didn't travel to Baltimore, thus hotel rooms were empty, restaurants lost business. Not to mention, a lot of people lost their job.

To blame the legislature for Irsay running out in the middle of the night, is just too easy. Irsay made all the decisions, he chose to move his team in the middle of the night, not the legislature.

Irsay did demand a new stadium because their stadium was horrible, it wasn't even built for football. Throw in problems associated with location, traffic, and maintenance/upkeep (Orioles controlled all the parking and food sales EVEN for Colts game); all factors, that in conjunction with fielding a sorry team, made it difficult to fill the stadium. He also wanted the city to allow him to start games at the same time as everyone else in the league, but the city refused and forced him to start games at two; that puts a dent in the wallet.

You're right, the eminent domain law probably wouldn't have held up in court, but that isn't the point. The point is that he was running a business in a hostile environment. His requests, not uncommon at all, were unheard by the legislature, and their final response was a major threat to his interests. What would you have done if someone wanted to take your business from you? Just the threat alone would be enough to send me packing.

Look, I'm not blaming the legislature for Irsay leaving, but they sure as hell played a MAJOR role in this whole debacle. To not acknowledge that fact, and to pin this all on Irsay is simply approaching this issue with a bias. Lots of people played roles in this tragedy, not just one arrogant bastard.

[TillyGalore]

Irsay wanted/demanded a new stadium, though wasn't able to fill the one they had, Memorial Stadium. In fact, if anyone deserved a new stadium it was the O's. They had just won the World Series, and had no problem filling the seats.

Irsay could have fought the the law as, though I'm not a lawyer, I doubt the eminent domain law would have held up had it been challenged.

The legislature couldn't stand by and watch a company that brought in millions of dollars into the economy in Baltimore and the State of Maryland. As a result of losing the Colts, teams didn't travel to Baltimore, fans of those teams didn't travel to Baltimore, thus hotel rooms were empty, restaurants lost business. Not to mention, a lot of people lost their job.

To blame the legislature for Irsay running out in the middle of the night, is just too easy. Irsay made all the decisions, he chose to move his team in the middle of the night, not the legislature.

Irsay did demand a new stadium because their stadium was horrible, it wasn't even built for football. Throw in problems associated with location, traffic, and maintenance/upkeep (Orioles controlled all the parking and food sales EVEN for Colts game); all factors, that in conjunction with fielding a sorry team, made it difficult to fill the stadium. He also wanted the city to allow him to start games at the same time as everyone else in the league, but the city refused and forced him to start games at two; that puts a dent in the wallet.

You're right, the eminent domain law probably wouldn't have held up in court, but that isn't the point. The point is that he was running a business in a hostile environment. His requests, not uncommon at all, were unheard by the legislature, and their final response was a major threat to his interests. What would you have done if someone wanted to take your business from you? Just the threat alone would be enough to send me packing.

Look, I'm not blaming the legislature for Irsay leaving, but they sure as hell played a MAJOR role in this whole debacle. To not acknowledge that fact, and to pin this all on Irsay is simply approaching this issue with a bias. Lots of people played roles in this tragedy, not just one arrogant bastard.

The legislature wouldn't have been put in the position IT was put in, had it not be for Irsay being a big jerk.

[TillyGalore]

I think we're missing something in the whole Modell-Cleveland move, and it was not nearly as transparent as it's been portrayed here.

First, Modell pushed hard to have the city fund either a new stadium or improvements to Municipal Stadium. The City of Cleveland finally agreed to put it up as a ballot initiative and Modell put to rest any discussion of the team moving. The ballot initiative was a slam dunk to pass (other than the Steelers, there is not a city that loves its sports franchise more than Cleveland loves the Browns).

But, despite a) getting the funding issue put to the public and b) assuring the City that he wouldn't move if he got his money (which he was going to), Modell entered into secret negotiations to move the team to Baltimore. He announced the move the day before the vote on the funding in an attempt to dampen public support for it so he could later use the rejection of the funding as a pretext for the move. Instead, as expected, the ballot initiative passed by an huge margin, and Modell was left with egg on his face.

So, I don't see it as any different than the Baltimore move to Indianapolis. Modell promised the City he wouldn't move if he got his money, but secretly orchestrated the move and attempted to manipulate the vote by timing the announcement of the move when he did. Sleazy.

As a Steelers fan, there isn't a team I hate more than the Ravens, and Modell's treatment of a City that did nothing but support his team and line his pockets, is a large reason why (Ray Lewis is the other large reason).

Modell announced he was moving his team. Irsay moved his team in the middle of the night, true story, not me being dramatic.

[Miles]

Irsay wanted/demanded a new stadium, though wasn't able to fill the one they had, Memorial Stadium. In fact, if anyone deserved a new stadium it was the O's. They had just won the World Series, and had no problem filling the seats.

Irsay could have fought the the law as, though I'm not a lawyer, I doubt the eminent domain law would have held up had it been challenged.

The legislature couldn't stand by and watch a company that brought in millions of dollars into the economy in Baltimore and the State of Maryland. As a result of losing the Colts, teams didn't travel to Baltimore, fans of those teams didn't travel to Baltimore, thus hotel rooms were empty, restaurants lost business. Not to mention, a lot of people lost their job.

To blame the legislature for Irsay running out in the middle of the night, is just too easy. Irsay made all the decisions, he chose to move his team in the middle of the night, not the legislature.

Irsay did demand a new stadium because their stadium was horrible, it wasn't even built for football. Throw in problems associated with location, traffic, and maintenance/upkeep (Orioles controlled all the parking and food sales EVEN for Colts game); all factors, that in conjunction with fielding a sorry team, made it difficult to fill the stadium. He also wanted the city to allow him to start games at the same time as everyone else in the league, but the city refused and forced him to start games at two; that puts a dent in the wallet.

You're right, the eminent domain law probably wouldn't have held up in court, but that isn't the point. The point is that he was running a business in a hostile environment. His requests, not uncommon at all, were unheard by the legislature, and their final response was a major threat to his interests. What would you have done if someone wanted to take your business from you? Just the threat alone would be enough to send me packing.

Look, I'm not blaming the legislature for Irsay leaving, but they sure as hell played a MAJOR role in this whole debacle. To not acknowledge that fact, and to pin this all on Irsay is simply approaching this issue with a bias. Lots of people played roles in this tragedy, not just one arrogant bastard.

The legislature wouldn't have been put in the position IT was put in, had it not be for Irsay being a big jerk.

I think that's a very simplified view of the events leading up to the move. Do you really think it's an acceptable method for dealing with a problem? Why not just sit down together and talk things out?

Irsay was a jerk, AND the legislature was foolish in their handling. Why wouldn't they change the laws so the Colts could play games before 2:00PM? Why wouldn't they let him build a new football stadium, rather than use a poorly maintained baseball stadium with horrible access? Why wouldn't they let him negotiate a deal so that the Colts could control parking prices (and profits) and manage their own food prices (profit)?

Why is it so difficult to believe that there is more to the story than Irsay just being a jerk or an arrogant bastard?