Proofreading, grading, & relevance: The academics' thread

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I had a Religion professor at Duke who told us, "If your paper is not publishable, then don't bother turning it in." One of the highest compliments I ever received at Duke was a note at the end of one of my papers in which he wrote, "very lucid." I was so proud of that.

My freshman English teacher (grad student) told us that, in her class, everyone would start with a C, and that we could work our way up (or down) from there. One of the guys in the class wrote his first paper about sex, and he got an A, and he bragged about it. Thinking that it wouldn't hurt to try this method, in my next paper, I made a reference to sexual tension, and I got a B. By the end of the semester, I had written a term paper about penis envy in Ibsen's Hedda Gabler. I got an A on the term paper, and wound up with an A in the class. I saw this teacher at a pub in Reynolda Village in Winston-Salem a few years out of Duke. She was teaching at Wake Forest. Hmm. . . I just looked her up and she's teaching at Lyon College in Arkansas.

Now, on to law school. . . they had us take an English placement test during orientation week to determine whether we needed to take a remedial English class. There were two of us in our class of 180 who made perfect scores on the test. The common denominator? That guy and I had both been in the same English class in the 7th grade at Carrington Junior High School. Our teacher drilled us every morning for an hour in diagramming sentences. The second hour of her class was spent writing--and if we couldn't write something that made sense, she encouraged us to simply put our thoughts down on paper, and come back to them later to clean up the writing. I learned so much from that teacher. She drilled those fundamentals into us until they became second nature to us.

I've never graded a college paper, but I've corrected lots of elementary school papers and tests.

Who was your teacher at Carrington?

Adelia Tennant. She was, without a doubt, the best teacher I ever had.

She was a giant among outstanding teachers. I think that after she retired she moved back to the Winston-Salem area where her extended family had roots.

[TillyGalore]

I thought the plural of octopus was octopussies.

From Wikipedia---"There are three forms of the plural of octopus; namely, octopuses, octopi, and octopodes."
James Bond did not make the list of grammatical options.

I would think twice before correcting the grammar of a man with a license to kill.

Excellent point!

[Miles]

My freshman English teacher (grad student) told us that, in her class, everyone would start with a C, and that we could work our way up (or down) from there.

My father tells his students that they're all starting the semester with a F. Don't work, you keep the F. Work hard, you can earn the A.

[devildeac]

I have a topic I would love y'all's opinion on: the usage of Latin grammar, declension and conjugation in the English language. Discuss.

I never understood why we try to decline words borrowed from Latin the way the Romans would. Why do we say foci as the plural of focus? When we borrow a word from French or German, do we do the same? And then we see people "hypercorrecting" saying that the plural of octopus is octopi. If you want to apply rules of Latin declension to words borrowed into English, at least do it to actual Latin words.... octopus is NOT LATIN!

End of rant.

This can be a new thread of people think it doesn't belong here.

I thought the plural of octopus was octopussies.

Only you, Tilly, only you... :roll:

Well, maybe, Shamm, wilson, BONES and... :roll:

[wilson]

I thought the plural of octopus was octopussies.

Only you, Tilly, only you... :roll:

Well, maybe, Shamm, wilson, BONES and... :roll:

Shamm, yes. Me, no.

[devildeac]

I thought the plural of octopus was octopussies.

Only you, Tilly, only you... :roll:

Well, maybe, Shamm, wilson, BONES and... :roll:

Shamm, yes. Me, no.

Never a suggestive comment here... :oops: :roll: ;) ?

[Turk]

INow, on to law school. . . they had us take an English placement test during orientation week to determine whether we needed to take a remedial English class. There were two of us in our class of 180 who made perfect scores on the test. The common denominator? That guy and I had both been in the same English class in the 7th grade at Carrington Junior High School. Our teacher drilled us every morning for an hour in diagramming sentences. The second hour of her class was spent writing--and if we couldn't write something that made sense, she encouraged us to simply put our thoughts down on paper, and come back to them later to clean up the writing. I learned so much from that teacher. She drilled those fundamentals into us until they became second nature to us.

I've never graded a college paper, but I've corrected lots of elementary school papers and tests.

I could not diagram a sentance if you held a gun to my head. The focus during my school career was being creative...With a quick walk through the parts of speech. Most of the grammar I know I learned in…French class. Seriously. Our Honors French teacher had to stop teaching French and teach English grammar so we had a shot at understanding French grammar.

I read constantly, and can usually get the grammar right based on what ‘sounds’ right. I can’t tell you why it is right or wrong.
(I can convert a number from decimal to binary to hex without thinking about it. Sad. Very Sad....and useless )

I have gotten a bit of a reputation as a "Mr. Language Person" type around the office when delicate (or not-so-delicate) writeups are needed. I give my credit to Sister Camilla Mary, who taught 8th grade English. She was a little bitty nun who must have close to 60 when I passed through; she was one of those teachers with complete control of a classroom even though she never raised her voice above normal conversational tones. She had a dry wit, and would feign exasperation with phrases like "Oh, be still, my beating heart!" or "Fan me with a brick!" Her motto was "precise language leads to precise thinking" and we had to write a story, a book report, and a poem every month. The Catholic schools were big into diagramming sentences; it wasn't just a one-year topic. I also recall Sister hammering us with gerunds, infinitives, and participles.

The "sounds right" test is very useful - don't underestimate it. When I proofread stuff for the young Turks, sometimes I won't even mark it up. I'll skim it, hand it back, and say "Read this out loud, and tell me if it sounds right." (They hate it when I do that, but I don't care). At the risk of bragging, the eldest of the little gobblers is an editor-of-something-or-other on the school paper as a sophomore, so I think I'm doing something right. (On the other hand, they have a LOT of editors so the title may have more to do with self-esteem than actual ability...)

[ArkieDukie]

My freshman English teacher (grad student) told us that, in her class, everyone would start with a C, and that we could work our way up (or down) from there. One of the guys in the class wrote his first paper about sex, and he got an A, and he bragged about it. Thinking that it wouldn't hurt to try this method, in my next paper, I made a reference to sexual tension, and I got a B. By the end of the semester, I had written a term paper about penis envy in Ibsen's Hedda Gabler. I got an A on the term paper, and wound up with an A in the class. I saw this teacher at a pub in Reynolda Village in Winston-Salem a few years out of Duke. She was teaching at Wake Forest. Hmm. . . I just looked her up and she's teaching at Lyon College in Arkansas.

Holy cow. I know who you're talking about - she's a former colleague of mine. Your anecdote about her class does not surprise me in the least. Can we all join in a chorus of "It's a Small World" now?

[ArkieDukie]

INow, on to law school. . . they had us take an English placement test during orientation week to determine whether we needed to take a remedial English class. There were two of us in our class of 180 who made perfect scores on the test. The common denominator? That guy and I had both been in the same English class in the 7th grade at Carrington Junior High School. Our teacher drilled us every morning for an hour in diagramming sentences. The second hour of her class was spent writing--and if we couldn't write something that made sense, she encouraged us to simply put our thoughts down on paper, and come back to them later to clean up the writing. I learned so much from that teacher. She drilled those fundamentals into us until they became second nature to us.

I've never graded a college paper, but I've corrected lots of elementary school papers and tests.

I could not diagram a sentance if you held a gun to my head. The focus during my school career was being creative...With a quick walk through the parts of speech. Most of the grammar I know I learned in…French class. Seriously. Our Honors French teacher had to stop teaching French and teach English grammar so we had a shot at understanding French grammar.

I read constantly, and can usually get the grammar right based on what ‘sounds’ right. I can’t tell you why it is right or wrong.
(I can convert a number from decimal to binary to hex without thinking about it. Sad. Very Sad....and useless )

You know, it's really interesting that you bring this up, because I had exactly the same experience. I don't think I really 'got' verb tenses until I took French. In fact, when I had colleagues and/or students grousing about a foreign language requirement, this is exactly what I told them. Definitely a hidden benefit of taking a foreign language - at least, no one at my high school ever touted this benefit.

[wilson]

Most of the grammar I know I learned in…French class. Seriously. Our Honors French teacher had to stop teaching French and teach English grammar so we had a shot at understanding French grammar.

I read constantly, and can usually get the grammar right based on what ‘sounds’ right. I can’t tell you why it is right or wrong.
(I can convert a number from decimal to binary to hex without thinking about it. Sad. Very Sad....and useless )

You know, it's really interesting that you bring this up, because I had exactly the same experience. I don't think I really 'got' verb tenses until I took French. In fact, when I had colleagues and/or students grousing about a foreign language requirement, this is exactly what I told them. Definitely a hidden benefit of taking a foreign language - at least, no one at my high school ever touted this benefit.

I agree with all of this.
One of the most interesting learning experiences of my life was while I was studying in France during high school. Easily the most intensive nuts-and-bolts French language education I received there was in Spanish class. Learning a foreign language in a foreign language was a really cool mind-bender, and a great way to fill in some of the blanks that I had only sort of learned, or knew aurally but not on paper.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

You know, it's really interesting that you bring this up, because I had exactly the same experience. I don't think I really 'got' verb tenses until I took French. In fact, when I had colleagues and/or students grousing about a foreign language requirement, this is exactly what I told them. Definitely a hidden benefit of taking a foreign language - at least, no one at my high school ever touted this benefit.

I learned about verb tenses and all that type of crap :o the first week of Spanish class in 7th grade. I learned that there was a verb "to be" and that it conjugated as I am, you are, etc. In Spanish: yo soy, tu eres, el es, nosotros somos, etc. I never knew that am and are were forms of to be - I guess I had been absent that day in second grade... :roll: Sure, I'd heard Bill's quote ("to be or not to be"), but "be" just didn't register as "am".

Bill's quote, you know - William Shakespeare. I have a friend who goes to "Billsburg", VA on a regular basis.

[DukeUsul]

Ditto. Everything I learned about English grammar I learned in four years of Latin with Mrs. Paternoster. Yes, I shit you not, Mrs. Paternoster, requiescat in pace.

[CathyCA]

Who was your teacher at Carrington?

Adelia Tennant. She was, without a doubt, the best teacher I ever had.

She was a giant among outstanding teachers. I think that after she retired she moved back to the Winston-Salem area where her extended family had roots.

You knew her? That is so cool!

I wish I'd had the opportunity to properly thank her for everything she taught me.

[cl15876]

I thought the plural of octopus was octopussies.

From Wikipedia---"There are three forms of the plural of octopus; namely, octopuses, octopi, and octopodes."
James Bond did not make the list of grammatical options.

but he sure did have an impressive come back!!!!! Bless his heart!!!!!

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

You knew her? That is so cool!

I wish I'd had the opportunity to properly thank her for everything she taught me.

Yes, I did know her. I was a young teacher just starting out and became active in the professional association. Our paths crossed with some frequency when I was an active member/officer in the NCAE. I learned about her move back to Winston-Salem well before I moved back here. The house she and her husband moved into is not far from my mother's house; it's been in Adelia's family for many years.

[cl15876]

"quote="TillyGalore""I thought the plural of octopus was octopussies."/quote"

Only you, Tilly, only you... :roll:

Well, maybe, Shamm, wilson, BONES and... :roll:

Shamm, yes. Me, no.

Never a suggestive comment here... :oops: :roll: ;) ?

I NEVER thought ANY DIFFERENT!!!!!!!

[colchar]

Although this has nothing to do with the original purpose of this thread, a friend of mine has just been awarded a Rhodes Scholarship. I now officially hate him. Bastard ;)

[colchar]

Again, this doesn't relate directly to the original purpose of this thread but it still deals with an academic matter so I figured this was the place for it . . .

As some of you will know my dissertation deals with British intelligence in Africa during the Cold War (it is tentatively titled "British Intelligence and the Spectre of Communism in Africa, 1948-65"). Well my roommate's aunt is a former CSIS officer (CSIS=Canadian Security Intelligence Service) and for years was their main liaison with the British intelligence services. She had mentioned to me that she knows lots of people who were members of the British intelligence services during the era covered by my dissertation and that some of them were either stationed in Africa or were stationed at home in Britain but dealt with intelligence emanating from Africa. She had asked for a synopsis of my dissertation so that she could pass it along to anyone she knew (and so that they could also pass it along if they so chose) in the hopes that some of them might contact me and be willing to discuss their activities because, at the moment, my sources are all official documents (what I call the 'Whitehall Perspective') and this source-base will have to be expanded as the dissertation progresses - and an oral history component would be an ideal way to expand my source-base. Anyway, she called tonight and said that a couple of people she knows have expressed interest in helping me out so I might be able to conduct some original research with these people which will really help set my dissertation apart!

I figured the academics here (especially my man Wilson) would appreciate just how important a development this is for my research.

[DukieInKansas]

Again, this doesn't relate directly to the original purpose of this thread but it still deals with an academic matter so I figured this was the place for it . . .

As some of you will know my dissertation deals with British intelligence in Africa during the Cold War (it is tentatively titled "British Intelligence and the Spectre of Communism in Africa, 1948-65"). Well my roommate's aunt is a former CSIS officer (CSIS=Canadian Security Intelligence Service) and for years was their main liaison with the British intelligence services. She had mentioned to me that she knows lots of people who were members of the British intelligence services during the era covered by my dissertation and that some of them were either stationed in Africa or were stationed at home in Britain but dealt with intelligence emanating from Africa. She had asked for a synopsis of my dissertation so that she could pass it along to anyone she knew (and so that they could also pass it along if they so chose) in the hopes that some of them might contact me and be willing to discuss their activities because, at the moment, my sources are all official documents (what I call the 'Whitehall Perspective') and this source-base will have to be expanded as the dissertation progresses - and an oral history component would be an ideal way to expand my source-base. Anyway, she called tonight and said that a couple of people she knows have expressed interest in helping me out so I might be able to conduct some original research with these people which will really help set my dissertation apart!

I figured the academics here (especially my man Wilson) would appreciate just how important a development this is for my research.

That is so cool. Hearing history from someone who lived it as an amazing way to learn. Although it is not nearly on the same scale, I still remember interviewing Admiral Sohn, the founder of the modern Korean Navy for a school paper way back when. It really brings history alive when you get to hear what people were doing from them instead of a piece of paper.

[wilson]

Again, this doesn't relate directly to the original purpose of this thread but it still deals with an academic matter so I figured this was the place for it . . .

As some of you will know my dissertation deals with British intelligence in Africa during the Cold War (it is tentatively titled "British Intelligence and the Spectre of Communism in Africa, 1948-65"). Well my roommate's aunt is a former CSIS officer (CSIS=Canadian Security Intelligence Service) and for years was their main liaison with the British intelligence services. She had mentioned to me that she knows lots of people who were members of the British intelligence services during the era covered by my dissertation and that some of them were either stationed in Africa or were stationed at home in Britain but dealt with intelligence emanating from Africa. She had asked for a synopsis of my dissertation so that she could pass it along to anyone she knew (and so that they could also pass it along if they so chose) in the hopes that some of them might contact me and be willing to discuss their activities because, at the moment, my sources are all official documents (what I call the 'Whitehall Perspective') and this source-base will have to be expanded as the dissertation progresses - and an oral history component would be an ideal way to expand my source-base. Anyway, she called tonight and said that a couple of people she knows have expressed interest in helping me out so I might be able to conduct some original research with these people which will really help set my dissertation apart!

I figured the academics here (especially my man Wilson) would appreciate just how important a development this is for my research.

Kick ass! A very exciting development for you for sure. Congrats.
Reminds me...I'm due for a big, final (for now) update on my research.