Proofreading, grading, & relevance: The academics' thread

[DukeUsul]

Here's a classic from my first semester as an assistant professor. I was in the midst of getting settled in my office when one of my organic students stopped in to welcome me and let me know that he got A's in all of his science classes. He showed up again after the first exam, on which he made a C, to tell me that obviously something was wrong with my exam because he made A's in all of his science classes. This continued throughout the semester. Right before the last exam, I was giving another student advice on how to study for my class (work problems, which is also what I told them the first day of class), Mr. I Make A's in All of My Science Classes advised this other student that he re-copied his lecture notes rather than working problems because "working problems is a waste of time." Okay, for all of you who have taken a chemistry class, how well would you have done on your exams if all you did for studying was re-copying lecture notes?

The deeper question, is how terrible were these other "science" classes he was getting A's in without working problems?

The faculty member who was giving them this particular piece of study advice was the pre-med advisor, who was a biologist. He taught the biology courses that most of the pre-meds were taking along with my organic class, and this particular study advice did work for his class. He actually tried to make me change my course grades to reflect the ones he was giving in his courses. There were people making C's in my class that were making A's in his. He made my life VERY difficult after I refused to do so. There's a whole other story here that I won't go in to. Let's just say that I have a very low regard for people who abuse positions of authority.

Good point, and that makes my previous statement rather dumb. My science class experience was highly limited to the physical sciences, so I really wouldn't know how to study for a biology class. Never mind.

[DukieInKansas]

Here's a classic from my first semester as an assistant professor. I was in the midst of getting settled in my office when one of my organic students stopped in to welcome me and let me know that he got A's in all of his science classes. He showed up again after the first exam, on which he made a C, to tell me that obviously something was wrong with my exam because he made A's in all of his science classes. This continued throughout the semester. Right before the last exam, I was giving another student advice on how to study for my class (work problems, which is also what I told them the first day of class), Mr. I Make A's in All of My Science Classes advised this other student that he re-copied his lecture notes rather than working problems because "working problems is a waste of time." Okay, for all of you who have taken a chemistry class, how well would you have done on your exams if all you did for studying was re-copying lecture notes?

The deeper question, is how terrible were these other "science" classes he was getting A's in without working problems?

The faculty member who was giving them this particular piece of study advice was the pre-med advisor, who was a biologist. He taught the biology courses that most of the pre-meds were taking along with my organic class, and this particular study advice did work for his class. He actually tried to make me change my course grades to reflect the ones he was giving in his courses. There were people making C's in my class that were making A's in his. He made my life VERY difficult after I refused to do so. There's a whole other story here that I won't go in to. Let's just say that I have a very low regard for people who abuse positions of authority.

I was only a lowly business major (but my favorite classes were the science classes I took), but what kind of sense does it make to think that making A's in one class/subject automatically translates into making A's in another class/subject. Especially after the first C on a test - isn't that enough to figure out you have to change how you are preparing for a test?

[ArkieDukie]

The faculty member who was giving them this particular piece of study advice was the pre-med advisor, who was a biologist. He taught the biology courses that most of the pre-meds were taking along with my organic class, and this particular study advice did work for his class. He actually tried to make me change my course grades to reflect the ones he was giving in his courses. There were people making C's in my class that were making A's in his. He made my life VERY difficult after I refused to do so. There's a whole other story here that I won't go in to. Let's just say that I have a very low regard for people who abuse positions of authority.

I was only a lowly business major (but my favorite classes were the science classes I took), but what kind of sense does it make to think that making A's in one class/subject automatically translates into making A's in another class/subject. Especially after the first C on a test - isn't that enough to figure out you have to change how you are preparing for a test?

First off, there's no such thing as a "lowly business major." Secondly, you hit the nail on the head - for the rational person it would be a pretty big clue that you need to change your study strategy. However, if you're a student who "always makes A's in his science classes" and you have a pre-med advisor telling you that your grade is the professor's fault rather than yours, who are you going to believe? The professor who's telling you what you should be doing, or the pre-med advisor who's telling you that your grade is the professor's fault rather than yours? As far as the student was concerned, he was studying really hard and it wasn't reflected in his grade. An authority figure was telling him that it was the professor's fault. It took a couple of years, but fortunately the students finally figured out that I wasn't quite the villain that the pre-med advisor was making me out to be. Round about that time, the pre-med advisor had to leave the institution. Both sides signed a non-disclosure agreement, so I don't know exactly what happened. I heard enough rumors to have a pretty good idea, though. (read back to the statement about grade discrepancies...)

[Rolvix]

I'm sure if you haven't all noticed already, I really need to work on my comma placement. Feel free to red-pen/annihilate my posts if you notice any mistakes.

[windsor]

Science and math require working problems to 'get' the concepts. Copying lecture notes isn't very useful (at least not to me).

I must be some kind of a weirdo because I always did very well in hard sciences AND in anything that required writing - an English prof whose name escapes me was after me for two years to switch to an English major. He seemed to think I was going to write the great American novel.
Thought I was gifted..blah blah blah...maybe they were short English majors or something.

(I actually can write correctly when I try...postings is a stream of consciousness kind of thing...hence I usually screw up...but it gives the AP Style geeks a chance to correct me )

[wilson]

...postings is a stream of consciousness kind of thing...

You're right; they is. ;)

[CathyCA]

I had a Religion professor at Duke who told us, "If your paper is not publishable, then don't bother turning it in." One of the highest compliments I ever received at Duke was a note at the end of one of my papers in which he wrote, "very lucid." I was so proud of that.

My freshman English teacher (grad student) told us that, in her class, everyone would start with a C, and that we could work our way up (or down) from there. One of the guys in the class wrote his first paper about sex, and he got an A, and he bragged about it. Thinking that it wouldn't hurt to try this method, in my next paper, I made a reference to sexual tension, and I got a B. By the end of the semester, I had written a term paper about penis envy in Ibsen's Hedda Gabler. I got an A on the term paper, and wound up with an A in the class. I saw this teacher at a pub in Reynolda Village in Winston-Salem a few years out of Duke. She was teaching at Wake Forest. Hmm. . . I just looked her up and she's teaching at Lyon College in Arkansas.

Now, on to law school. . . they had us take an English placement test during orientation week to determine whether we needed to take a remedial English class. There were two of us in our class of 180 who made perfect scores on the test. The common denominator? That guy and I had both been in the same English class in the 7th grade at Carrington Junior High School. Our teacher drilled us every morning for an hour in diagramming sentences. The second hour of her class was spent writing--and if we couldn't write something that made sense, she encouraged us to simply put our thoughts down on paper, and come back to them later to clean up the writing. I learned so much from that teacher. She drilled those fundamentals into us until they became second nature to us.

I've never graded a college paper, but I've corrected lots of elementary school papers and tests.

[Lavabe]

I had a Religion professor at Duke who told us, "If your paper is not publishable, then don't bother turning it in." One of the highest compliments I ever received at Duke was a note at the end of one of my papers in which he wrote, "very lucid." I was so proud of that.

<snip>

The second hour of her class was spent writing--and if we couldn't write something that made sense, she encouraged us to simply put our thoughts down on paper, and come back to them later to clean up the writing. I learned so much from that teacher. She drilled those fundamentals into us until they became second nature to us.

I've never graded a college paper, but I've corrected lots of elementary school papers and tests.

I almost agree with the religion prof, but I can also see it backfiring. That point of view could produce a LOT of writer's block. On the other hand, I like the fact that standards are being upheld.

The junior high English teacher's exercise in free-writing is a classic approach that DOES pay off. It cuts down on writer's block, but it also encourages an editing phase of writing. If students would just devote some time to editing!

[wilson]

I had a Religion professor at Duke who told us, "If your paper is not publishable, then don't bother turning it in." One of the highest compliments I ever received at Duke was a note at the end of one of my papers in which he wrote, "very lucid." I was so proud of that.

<snip>

The second hour of her class was spent writing--and if we couldn't write something that made sense, she encouraged us to simply put our thoughts down on paper, and come back to them later to clean up the writing. I learned so much from that teacher. She drilled those fundamentals into us until they became second nature to us.

I've never graded a college paper, but I've corrected lots of elementary school papers and tests.

I almost agree with the religion prof, but I can also see it backfiring. That point of view could produce a LOT of writer's block. On the other hand, I like the fact that standards are being upheld.

The junior high English teacher's exercise in free-writing is a classic approach that DOES pay off. It cuts down on writer's block, but it also encourages an editing phase of writing. If students would just devote some time to editing!

Agreed with Lav on all counts. Precious little writing is publishable, even among students at the very highest level. I understand that the idea is to aim high, but hell, his admonishment even intimidates me.
As for editing...YES! It took me a long time to learn this myself, but an extra draft (or two) is, to me, the difference between a good paper and an outstanding one. Too bad so many students (again, even at the very highest level) wait until about 18 hours before the thing is due to even think about starting to write.

[windsor]

INow, on to law school. . . they had us take an English placement test during orientation week to determine whether we needed to take a remedial English class. There were two of us in our class of 180 who made perfect scores on the test. The common denominator? That guy and I had both been in the same English class in the 7th grade at Carrington Junior High School. Our teacher drilled us every morning for an hour in diagramming sentences. The second hour of her class was spent writing--and if we couldn't write something that made sense, she encouraged us to simply put our thoughts down on paper, and come back to them later to clean up the writing. I learned so much from that teacher. She drilled those fundamentals into us until they became second nature to us.

I've never graded a college paper, but I've corrected lots of elementary school papers and tests.

I could not diagram a sentance if you held a gun to my head. The focus during my school career was being creative...With a quick walk through the parts of speech. Most of the grammar I know I learned in…French class. Seriously. Our Honors French teacher had to stop teaching French and teach English grammar so we had a shot at understanding French grammar.

I read constantly, and can usually get the grammar right based on what ‘sounds’ right. I can’t tell you why it is right or wrong.
(I can convert a number from decimal to binary to hex without thinking about it. Sad. Very Sad....and useless )

[CathyCA]

I read constantly, and can usually get the grammar right based on what ‘sounds’ right. I can’t tell you why it is right or wrong.
(I can convert a number from decimal to binary to hex without thinking about it. Sad. Very Sad....and useless )

I think that would be a fun party trick.

[DukeUsul]

I have a topic I would love y'all's opinion on: the usage of Latin grammar, declension and conjugation in the English language. Discuss.

I never understood why we try to decline words borrowed from Latin the way the Romans would. Why do we say foci as the plural of focus? When we borrow a word from French or German, do we do the same? And then we see people "hypercorrecting" saying that the plural of octopus is octopi. If you want to apply rules of Latin declension to words borrowed into English, at least do it to actual Latin words.... octopus is NOT LATIN!

End of rant.

This can be a new thread of people think it doesn't belong here.

[TillyGalore]

I have a topic I would love y'all's opinion on: the usage of Latin grammar, declension and conjugation in the English language. Discuss.

I never understood why we try to decline words borrowed from Latin the way the Romans would. Why do we say foci as the plural of focus? When we borrow a word from French or German, do we do the same? And then we see people "hypercorrecting" saying that the plural of octopus is octopi. If you want to apply rules of Latin declension to words borrowed into English, at least do it to actual Latin words.... octopus is NOT LATIN!

End of rant.

This can be a new thread of people think it doesn't belong here.

I thought the plural of octopus was octopussies.

[Lavabe]

I have a topic I would love y'all's opinion on: the usage of Latin grammar, declension and conjugation in the English language. Discuss.

I never understood why we try to decline words borrowed from Latin the way the Romans would. Why do we say foci as the plural of focus? When we borrow a word from French or German, do we do the same? And then we see people "hypercorrecting" saying that the plural of octopus is octopi. If you want to apply rules of Latin declension to words borrowed into English, at least do it to actual Latin words.... octopus is NOT LATIN!

End of rant.

This can be a new thread of people think it doesn't belong here.

I thought the plural of octopus was octopussies.

Only Louis Jordan is allowed to say that word consecutively. ;)

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I had a Religion professor at Duke who told us, "If your paper is not publishable, then don't bother turning it in." One of the highest compliments I ever received at Duke was a note at the end of one of my papers in which he wrote, "very lucid." I was so proud of that.

My freshman English teacher (grad student) told us that, in her class, everyone would start with a C, and that we could work our way up (or down) from there. One of the guys in the class wrote his first paper about sex, and he got an A, and he bragged about it. Thinking that it wouldn't hurt to try this method, in my next paper, I made a reference to sexual tension, and I got a B. By the end of the semester, I had written a term paper about penis envy in Ibsen's Hedda Gabler. I got an A on the term paper, and wound up with an A in the class. I saw this teacher at a pub in Reynolda Village in Winston-Salem a few years out of Duke. She was teaching at Wake Forest. Hmm. . . I just looked her up and she's teaching at Lyon College in Arkansas.

Now, on to law school. . . they had us take an English placement test during orientation week to determine whether we needed to take a remedial English class. There were two of us in our class of 180 who made perfect scores on the test. The common denominator? That guy and I had both been in the same English class in the 7th grade at Carrington Junior High School. Our teacher drilled us every morning for an hour in diagramming sentences. The second hour of her class was spent writing--and if we couldn't write something that made sense, she encouraged us to simply put our thoughts down on paper, and come back to them later to clean up the writing. I learned so much from that teacher. She drilled those fundamentals into us until they became second nature to us.

I've never graded a college paper, but I've corrected lots of elementary school papers and tests.

Who was your teacher at Carrington?

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I'm sure if you haven't all noticed already, I really need to work on my comma placement. Feel free to red-pen/annihilate my posts if you notice any mistakes.

I remember one my my teachers sometime along the way suggesting that you say the sentence in your head (or out loud if you're alone) and speak it as you would normally (normal cadence). Places where one would pause or where the word and would fit in and clarify the meaning, those are the places to insert commas.

[CathyCA]

I had a Religion professor at Duke who told us, "If your paper is not publishable, then don't bother turning it in." One of the highest compliments I ever received at Duke was a note at the end of one of my papers in which he wrote, "very lucid." I was so proud of that.

My freshman English teacher (grad student) told us that, in her class, everyone would start with a C, and that we could work our way up (or down) from there. One of the guys in the class wrote his first paper about sex, and he got an A, and he bragged about it. Thinking that it wouldn't hurt to try this method, in my next paper, I made a reference to sexual tension, and I got a B. By the end of the semester, I had written a term paper about penis envy in Ibsen's Hedda Gabler. I got an A on the term paper, and wound up with an A in the class. I saw this teacher at a pub in Reynolda Village in Winston-Salem a few years out of Duke. She was teaching at Wake Forest. Hmm. . . I just looked her up and she's teaching at Lyon College in Arkansas.

Now, on to law school. . . they had us take an English placement test during orientation week to determine whether we needed to take a remedial English class. There were two of us in our class of 180 who made perfect scores on the test. The common denominator? That guy and I had both been in the same English class in the 7th grade at Carrington Junior High School. Our teacher drilled us every morning for an hour in diagramming sentences. The second hour of her class was spent writing--and if we couldn't write something that made sense, she encouraged us to simply put our thoughts down on paper, and come back to them later to clean up the writing. I learned so much from that teacher. She drilled those fundamentals into us until they became second nature to us.

I've never graded a college paper, but I've corrected lots of elementary school papers and tests.

Who was your teacher at Carrington?

Adelia Tennant. She was, without a doubt, the best teacher I ever had.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I thought the plural of octopus was octopussies.

From Wikipedia---"There are three forms of the plural of octopus; namely, octopuses, octopi, and octopodes."
James Bond did not make the list of grammatical options.

[TillyGalore]

I thought the plural of octopus was octopussies.

From Wikipedia---"There are three forms of the plural of octopus; namely, octopuses, octopi, and octopodes."
James Bond did not make the list of grammatical options.

That is just plain wrong. How can octopussies not be on the list? I'm going to have to have a conversation with James.

Course, anybody can add anything to wikipedia. Perhaps I need to make a change. ;) ;) ;) ;)

[windsor]

I thought the plural of octopus was octopussies.

From Wikipedia---"There are three forms of the plural of octopus; namely, octopuses, octopi, and octopodes."
James Bond did not make the list of grammatical options.

I would think twice before correcting the grammar of a man with a license to kill.