Biden won, it's over --- The Election Thread

[CrazyNotCrazie]

The victory event tonight had the feeling of true finality tonight. Trump can whine all he wants, but the Biden administration is moving forward, and moving in to the White House. JB's got lots on his plate to work on healing this country, but he seems truly driven to do it.

Also, GA is nearing 10K votes in Biden's favor. AZ is looking iffy. I'd love for it to hold just to keep that projected "306" number.

I am obviously thrilled by today's events. My neighborhood was a non-stop celebration - cheering, horn-honking, etc. If not for COVID, there would have been a lot of hugs and high fives. So many people letting out sighs of relief. Strangers stopping strangers just to shake their hands...

I loved the speeches tonight. No more us vs. them rhetoric. No more loyalty tests. The president's job is to make choices, and the nature of the some of those choices is that they might help some more than others, but I think that Biden truly wants to do what is best for America. He has a huge job ahead of him and I'm sure he will stumble along the way. But we will have a government that is not run in a chaotic way based on the President's gut instincts, but rather a collaboration of knowledge and expertise to make deliberate decisions. These are all things we took for granted five years ago.

I am hoping that Trump's legal challenges prove futile and we can move on quickly. I saw that at least one of his sons tweeted a loyalty test to his supporters and several stepped up.

Though I am focusing on the positive, I am wondering how much he will try to do and be able to get away with over the next two months. Will it be a two month government funded golf trip to Mar-a-lago? I think he owns a few courses in Dubai so maybe we will pay for him to go there. I am concerned he will do nothing to deal with COVID, jobs, or any other major problems currently facing our country. What kind of executive orders will he try to push through? I wonder if he will truly test the limits, particularly since I think that Barr will still be unlikely to try to stop him.

Along those lines, I have read that in addition to the usual pardons (which both parties are admittedly guilty of, though I'm sure Trump will take it to a new level), Trump might pardon himself. I am trying to determine what he would be pardoning himself of? I feel like I am missing something obvious, but I thought that most of his federal charges are in process and/or on hold, so he can't really pardon himself of something he hasn't been convicted of. I'm not a lawyer - looking for some guidance here. Thanks.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Along those lines, I have read that in addition to the usual pardons (which both parties are admittedly guilty of, though I'm sure Trump will take it to a new level), Trump might pardon himself. I am trying to determine what he would be pardoning himself of? I feel like I am missing something obvious, but I thought that most of his federal charges are in process and/or on hold, so he can't really pardon himself of something he hasn't been convicted of. I'm not a lawyer - looking for some guidance here. Thanks.

I've seen people postulating that he will pardon his crony friends and family, and of course maybe try for pardoning himself too.

Here's what I think about that. It would be just as likely for him to say to anyone that isn't family, "Fuck you, you got me in this mess, you get nothing."

Gotta remember, he is one of the most petty people on the planet and won't feel that he owes anyone anything since he lost.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Along those lines, I have read that in addition to the usual pardons (which both parties are admittedly guilty of, though I'm sure Trump will take it to a new level), Trump might pardon himself. I am trying to determine what he would be pardoning himself of? I feel like I am missing something obvious, but I thought that most of his federal charges are in process and/or on hold, so he can't really pardon himself of something he hasn't been convicted of. I'm not a lawyer - looking for some guidance here. Thanks.

I've seen people postulating that he will pardon his crony friends and family, and of course maybe try for pardoning himself too.

Here's what I think about that. It would be just as likely for him to say to anyone that isn't family, "Fuck you, you got me in this mess, you get nothing."

Gotta remember, he is one of the most petty people on the planet and won't feel that he owes anyone anything since he lost.

Generally completely agree. He will not pardon someone as a lifetime achievement award - he only cares about what they can do for him going forward. So he will pardon anyone who can potentially help him in the future, either in business dealings or in his own potential legal challenges.

[mattman91]

I wish President Elect Joe Biden all of the success.

[Phredd3]

Anyone have any thoughts on how the transition will go? So far, Trump seems to have mostly been sidelined by the mainstream news outlets, and even the Fox News desk appears to be treating election challenges with something of a collective, "Well, he has a right to do this, but...." Fox pundits, of course, are still claiming foul, and though former Republicans have widely congratulated Biden on the results, there's been precious few congratulations or even statements of acknowledgement from current Republican politicians. The GSA has not recognized the transition yet.

So how is this going to play out? Most states don't formally certify until near the end of the month, electors are appointed roughly by Dec. 8th, and they vote on Dec. 14, but the counting of electoral votes doesn't happen until early January. At what point does the administration allow the transition process to actually begin?

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Anyone have any thoughts on how the transition will go? So far, Trump seems to have mostly been sidelined by the mainstream news outlets, and even the Fox News desk appears to be treating election challenges with something of a collective, "Well, he has a right to do this, but...." Fox pundits, of course, are still claiming foul, and though former Republicans have widely congratulated Biden on the results, there's been precious few congratulations or even statements of acknowledgement from current Republican politicians. The GSA has not recognized the transition yet.

So how is this going to play out? Most states don't formally certify until near the end of the month, electors are appointed roughly by Dec. 8th, and they vote on Dec. 14, but the counting of electoral votes doesn't happen until early January. At what point does the administration allow the transition process to actually begin?

I assume that Biden is going on the assumption that he will be getting zero assistance from Trump. He is probably hoping there are still some friendly faces within the agencies, but I think many of them have been gutted. So he will have a lot of work to do. Given his extensive experience in Washington, he has plenty of experience to guide him, but this will require more of his attention than it should. Fortunately it has only been four years, not eight.

There are still plenty of landmines ahead and I still won't believe anything until Biden is sworn in on January 20.

On a somewhat related note, I am getting the sense that after doing a pretty good job of supporting the team, the left wing of the Democratic party is now looking for attention. Last night I posted OY two articles from the NYT, one about AOC and one about Conor Lamb (very moderate Dem in a Republican district). My bias goes towards Lamb but I thought that AOC was generally being divisive and showing a total lack of awareness that this country is very different and politics is played differently in different places. I have seen some acquaintances on Facebook (one in particularly who is incredibly bright and an activist who is about as far left as they get) starting to harp about pushing for what they want, that Biden might not speak for them, etc. They don't recognize that the Republicans still have a lot of power, and even many Democrats will oppose them, so Biden would fail miserably at pushing through their agenda, even if he wanted to. They completely do not understand the idea of incrementalism - I appreciate their idealism and their hearts are in the right place but it is just not realistic. But heaven forbid I try to tell them that...

[Phredd3]

I have seen some acquaintances on Facebook (one in particularly who is incredibly bright and an activist who is about as far left as they get) starting to harp about pushing for what they want, that Biden might not speak for them, etc. They don't recognize that the Republicans still have a lot of power, and even many Democrats will oppose them, so Biden would fail miserably at pushing through their agenda, even if he wanted to. They completely do not understand the idea of incrementalism - I appreciate their idealism and their hearts are in the right place but it is just not realistic. But heaven forbid I try to tell them that...

My niece has this tendency, and my sister (her mom) a bit less so. Several Facebook acquaintances, as well. It mostly seems to be the young people, who haven't yet learned the value of compromise. Their parents or older left-leaning folks still want to attain those same goals, but seem to understand that you usually need a couple of first downs before you reach the end zone.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I have seen some acquaintances on Facebook (one in particularly who is incredibly bright and an activist who is about as far left as they get) starting to harp about pushing for what they want, that Biden might not speak for them, etc. They don't recognize that the Republicans still have a lot of power, and even many Democrats will oppose them, so Biden would fail miserably at pushing through their agenda, even if he wanted to. They completely do not understand the idea of incrementalism - I appreciate their idealism and their hearts are in the right place but it is just not realistic. But heaven forbid I try to tell them that...

My niece has this tendency, and my sister (her mom) a bit less so. Several Facebook acquaintances, as well. It mostly seems to be the young people, who haven't yet learned the value of compromise. Their parents or older left-leaning folks still want to attain those same goals, but seem to understand that you usually need a couple of first downs before you reach the end zone.

The primary voice of this for me is a HS classmate of mine (mid-40s). Valedictorian, one of the smartest people I ever met - we were in a lot of classes together so I knew her fairly well, though we were in different social circles. Chose to go to Oberlin over Harvard, MIT, etc. as it fit her personality more. Now she is basically a professional activist - always looking for a rally to go to and something to complain about. As I like to say, she is a non-conformist like all of her other friends. We are directionally the same politically but she is way to the left of me. I appreciate her idealism but she does not live in reality world. She seems to almost live in a commune of like-minded people and has zero interactions with anyone within a mile of a Republican. I think her parents were of similar political views, probably went to college during the activist part of the 60s, but they are very quiet people, while she is very outspoken. Though as you all know I am a very passionate Democrat, I am pretty moderate so at times I feel that I have a lot more in common with an anti-Trump Republican than someone like her.

Unrelated, I found it interesting that Alex Trebek died the same weekend that Trump's presidency died. Among my many frustrations with Trump is that he devalued knowledge, intellectual curiosity, scientific expertise, etc. Academics were not to be trusted. This was totally playing to his non-college white male base, who were tired (somewhat understandably) of being spoken down to by intellectuals. Trebek was the opposite - Jeopardy was all about fostering a love of knowledge (some more practical than other) and intellectual curiosity, and generating acclaim for those who excelled at this. It was a place for the book worm to shine, though that book worm needed a very well-rounded knowledge base as there were plenty of pop culture references.

[OPK]

If Dems want to win the two Senate races in Georgia, they’ll keep the left wing quiet. That’s not gonna help them down here.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Anyone have any thoughts on how the transition will go?
The GSA has not recognized the transition yet.

So how is this going to play out?

I assume that Biden is going on the assumption that he will be getting zero assistance from Trump. He is probably hoping there are still some friendly faces within the agencies, but I think many of them have been gutted. So he will have a lot of work to do. Given his extensive experience in Washington, he has plenty of experience to guide him, but this will require more of his attention than it should. Fortunately it has only been four years, not eight.

There are still plenty of landmines ahead and I still won't believe anything until Biden is sworn in on January 20.

Noting the two bolded statements above, this is so bizarre, but then it is Trump and it is 2020. I'm leaning towards CNC's comment, that while I'm engaged in seeing Biden's transition, I'm not fully believing it til I see it on the 20th.

I think what Trump is doing, especially with the GSA, is truly damaging to this country. It's sad that he does not have more GOP folks in Congress pushing him on this; they are still scared of him.

[dudog]

Why am I not surprised? DJTJr's girlfriend offered a lap dance to whoever gave the most money at a fundraising event. I bet an evangelical won.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBnb7Kz

Edit: I was going to ask CB&B why we don't have a smilie for this, and then I found

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Why am I not surprised? DJTJr's girlfriend offered a lap dance to whoever gave the most money at a fundraising event. I bet an evangelical won.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBnb7Kz

Edit: I was going to ask CB&B why we don't have a smilie for this, and then I found

You're so sensitive. You know she was just kidding. Stupid liberal!!!

Here's an article about some of Guilfoyle's exploits at Fox. No wonder she fits in so well with the Trump family.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... e-from-fox

On a partially related note, this article about what happened at a polling place in Florida is really scary. The level of low class harassment that went on is unbelievable. I do not think that this in any way impacted the results of the election (you know that if it had happened the other way Trump would be all over it). But it shows what an impact Trump has had on America.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/co ... story.html

[CameronBornAndBred]

On a partially related note, this article about what happened at a polling place in Florida is really scary. The level of low class harassment that went on is unbelievable. I do not think that this in any way impacted the results of the election (you know that if it had happened the other way Trump would be all over it). But it shows what an impact Trump has had on America.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/co ... story.html

Wow, that's some seriously scary shit. Not just the actions that they endured, but also the blatant inaction by authorities.


I just finished reading this article, it's a good one on why Alaska is taking so long.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/alaska-2020- ... 30923.html

[OPK]

I just finished reading this article, it's a good one on why Alaska is taking so long.

They have to wait until the Russians aren’t looking over the fence?

[dudog]

You're so sensitive. You know she was just kidding. Stupid liberal!!!

Who you calling a stupid liberal, ya commie pinko?!?!?



(I'm getting addicted to these smilies)

[OPK]

Dear Georgia and Arizona:

Please finish your fucking count so we can move to the next stage of the proceedings.

Thanks, America.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Dear Georgia and Arizona:

Please finish your fucking count so we can move to the next stage of the proceedings.

Thanks, America.

Tortoise race.

[OPK]

Dear Georgia and Arizona:

Please finish your fucking count so we can move to the next stage of the proceedings.

Thanks, America.

Tortoise race.

Killer emoji choice. Bravo!

[dudog]

Wouldn't it be sweet if all the R griping about the count in Georgia leads to the same margin of victory for the two D Senate candidates.

And these whiny little bitches have the nerve to call liberals "snowflakes".

[dudog]

Would Trump sell or otherwise bargain with U.S. secrets?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBnb7Kz

How close will the FBI and CIA keep an eye on him? And what if he makes good on his "threat" to leave the country? And then there is this from the article:

"As a practical matter, there’s little that the Biden administration can do to stop Trump from blurting out national secrets."

I don't think that is true.