Biden won, it's over --- The Election Thread

[CameronBornAndBred]

Kudos to Phredd and Dudog for well stated posts.

Like I responded to RJ, this is a thread that is going to excite emotions.

RJ said he's done with CTN. While I do hope that's not true, I wanted to take a moment to respond again. It is in the vein of CNC's post that RJ responded to that is why Crazietalk is even here, and why we've been here for over a decade.

You are allowed to say what you want. You are encouraged to do so. Not everyone will agree with you, no matter the subject, but they will respect your opinion. As long as you are not attacking or demeaning others, whatever you say is welcome for discussion. Some will agree with you, some will disagree. It's the way the world works in real life and in our online presence.
We are folks that are united by one joy, which is Duke sports of course. After that, we have our differences, and that lends to the vibrance of any community. Disagreements are NOT unhealthy; debate sparks conversation which leads to us learning more about each other and from there we find common ground beyond just what happens in a small slice of Durham, NC.

[dudog]

Looks like Georgia just ran out of votes. Joe Biden is #46.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Looks like Georgia just ran out of votes. Joe Biden is #46.

Yep. Looks that state is OVAH! Over 4,200 votes in Joe's favor.

[OPK]

Trump and his spawn are deranged madmen

Yet over 70 million people want him as their president for four more years. I am truly embarrassed to be an American and be surrounded by people who fall for the tricks of this clown (no offense to clowns). Biden is a kind, decent man who is not proposing anything radical, yet so many people believed Trump's lies. There is no common sense of truth anymore. And I don't see how this can be repaired. Let's just go about our merry way and split into two countries. I am fortunate to live in a state where most people agree with me. My apologies to those of you who do not.

Let's just split into 2 countries? The last time we did that resulted in the Civil War. Biden may not be proposing anything radical, but even if you're being facetious, you are. Your timing for such an inflammatory and divisive post could not be worse.

You are truly embarrassed to be an American? To share a country with people who did not vote for the same candidate you did? And you posted this after it was obvious that your candidate is going to win? Just wow.

I'm proud to be an American and live in a country where I'm free to vote for our leaders. I'm proud to live alongside people who vote differently and see things differently. We can learn a lot from each other, and different viewpoints can make the world a better place. I believe that even people who vote differently actually share enough in common to be best friends or loved family members.

If someone chooses to vote for a candidate, that does not equate to believing lies and falling for the tricks of a clown. I can't imagine why Trump voters become shy to share their views. I can't imagine why they think they might be judged or looked down upon as deplorable, uneducated idiots who aren't enlightened with the same common "truth" that you are. I can't imagine why threads like this one turn into single party echo chambers where members of the other party are ridiculed, chased away, or silenced (OY).

I believe black lives So much more than just matter. I am not a white supremacist. I support gay marriage. I believe masks work. I voted for Obama twice and Trump twice. Trump has some serious flaws and did some bad things. Trump also IMO did some good things for our country and our world. Ultimately, due to many issues and reasons I will certainly not go into, I decided that I thought Trump and his team would be better for our country than Biden and his team over the next 4 years.

But Biden won a free election, and thus he will have my 100% full support as POTUS and Harris will have my 100% support as VP. I hope and pray they do a great job, as that will be better for our country.

This loss really hurt to be 10:30 pm on election night looking like Trump was going to win, and then see everything change like that by Wed morning. Everyone's vote should be counted of course, it's just a tough way to lose. But we'll get over it and hopefully our great country can come together and heal together, peacefully. I am not being a sore loser, and I accepted the inevitable loss Wed morning. I congratulated OPK on winning his pie at that time on Wed.

I like your screen-name, CrazyNotCrazie - IMO it accurately describes your post. I'm not sure I've ever read a more infuriating and offensive post. Yes I get annoyed by the endless condescending posts of people who don't agree with how I voted. Posts saying things like "Trump has completely destroyed their ability to think intelligently and for themselves." But I'm used to that. But reading posts like yours above pisses me off. Life is too short to get this angry on a Friday as it takes time to calm down. I'm done with CrazieTalk. I'll stay in touch with my friends.

Peace Out

Agree with this completely, and hope RJ199 comes back. You can’t talk to a nicer guy.

I do find it odd (not aimed at CnC or anyone here) how many Trump haters I know who are concerned about the “intolerance” of Trump voters while showing a blind eye to their own intolerance. We are all Americans. This partisan bullshit has to stop from both ends.

JMHO.

And yes, RJ199 offered to pay the pie but I told him it’s not over. Because it’s not.

[dudog]

It's a bit heartbreaking that America has to look towards its comedians for spine.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBnbfcL

[CameronBornAndBred]

It's a bit heartbreaking that America has to look towards its comedians for spine.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBnbfcL

[CameronBornAndBred]

SCOTUS says it won't stop the count in Pa.

Sorry, Donnie. ACB says thanks for the job, though.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

For someone who loves order, structure, compromise and peace, it feels a bit weird to be a lightning rod. I apologize if I caused anyone discomfort and if CB&B wants me to take a timeout, I will do that out of respect for him, but I'm not walking back a word I said. I did not say anything that I have not been saying for a while, so this is not just in response to the fact that Biden is likely going to win.

I do not think that all Trump supporters are evil people. I am not crazy enough to make a generalization like that. The vast majority of my friends and family are blue, but some people I am very close to supported Trump. It made it very challenging to interact, but we manage. We recognize our differences and choose not to discuss politics. Several of them could not keep their mouths shut, so that made our conversations more strained. But I would never initiate a conversation about politics with them and I try my best to take the high road.

As I mentioned above, I believe very strongly in order, structure and socially acceptable behavior. Chaos cause me anxiety. So you can imagine what a nightmare the last four years have been. I have lived the bulk of my life (40+ years) in the NY area, so I have known about Trump for a long time. And I have known other people like him. His behavior is completely unacceptable to me. I have spoken to friends, families and acquaintances who are mental health professionals about Trump and as much as their professional code of ethics forbids them from diagnosing someone they have not met, they all agree that you could write volumes about Trump's mental health disorders. His constant lying, inability to admit he is wrong or take responsibility for his actions, childish name calling, narcissism, vindictiveness, and everything else are very disturbing for anyone, but especially for the President of the United States. He doesn't care about anyone else. He has no true friends - all of his relationships are transactional. America had admittedly moved too far in the direction of political correctness where the smallest offense was disqualifying, but these are traits that really should be disqualifying.

Millions of Americans seem to have no problem with all of this and have blindly fallen in line behind him. We used to generally have a relatively common sense of right and wrong, appropriate behavior, the truth, etc. We believed in science, knowledge and expertise, as well as the fact that sometimes these experts are wrong, but that doesn't make them useless. That has been destroyed. Did all of these people have this much pent up anger that was just released when Trump came into office? I don't know. But the fact that people defend him no matter what is very problematic. There are plenty of people out there who question his mental health and behavior but say that his political stances are more closely aligned to theirs so they are willing to deal with it. I find this troubling too, but a lot less troubling, as they are not blinded from the problem. If you are living paycheck to paycheck and for whatever reason you think that Biden's policies might cost you your livelihood, then you are reasonable to vote for Trump. But the vast majority of people who support Trump are not in this situation - they have no idea what Biden stands for, but just believe what Trump says he stands for.

And many of these people hate me. They view people like me as evil. They feel this way having never met me or anyone remotely like me. I grew up in a very racially and socioeconomically diverse community and have spent my adult life living and working with people from around the country and all different types of backgrounds, including many people who are very far from me politically. I prided myself on finding commonalities with everyone. My dislike of them is in response of their dislike of me - I never had any problem with anyone. I recognize that there are plenty of people like me who can be viewed as condescending, patronizing and the like. And I agree that condescending, patronizing behavior is not acceptable and is too prevalent. But even that does not merit this level of anger and hatred.

So we have a fundamental disconnect in this country. It was lingering under the surface but now it has escalated. And I really fear that it has reached the point of no return. Contrary to Trump's lies, Biden is about as middle of the road as they get. He is far from perfect, but at heart he truly seems to be a good person. I don't really care about China, or a Mexican border wall, or most other policy issues. I just want a decent human being as president. On most key political issues I do align with Biden, but I think that if we negotiated rather than taking extreme positions (both sides are guilty of this), we could like get to relatively acceptable positions. Which of these men would you want to marry your daughter, or for your son to grow up to be like? I had issues with Trump's policies, but I would have had a lot less of a problem if they were presented by a rational human being.

So I really don't see what the next step for America is. And that scares the crap out of me. I really hope Biden won. I trust him to not be vindictive but to truly try to do what is best for as many Americans as possible. There's a small part of me that was really hoping the Democrats could control the White House and all of Congress and really stick it to them, but I realized that this is not constructive and it is not kind (and it is not happening anyway). I supported Biden over Warren or Sanders because I thought he was best suited to bring us together - I recognize people's issues with the far left wing of the Democratic party and appreciate the need for compromise. But I am fearful that we have been poisoned too much as a country. And if a significant portion of the country absolutely despises Biden and doesn't believe a word he says because they are convinced it is all fake news, then what is the end game? I don't realistically think we should split into two countries, but sometimes I do wonder if it is the best answer. And it is a lie to say that people on the right have not thought about it either, and will not be thinking about it even more now if Biden is president.

If others would approach me with an open mind and an intellectually honest approach, such as what are respectful, decent ways to treat and talk to other people, I would be eager to have a constructive dialogue. I have had pretty strong disagreements with some people in this community and managed to find some common ground. I know many would think it was government overkill, but I have said before that it would be great if every 18 year old American was forced to move to a distant part of the country for a year and do community service, infrastructure work, or something else in a group of people from very different backgrounds than themselves. By living and working together, they could better understand each other as human beings.

Sorry for the novel. But given the bashing I got, I felt the need to speak up. Perhaps I engaged in a bit of Trumpian hyperbole. But we all need a chance to vent occasionally. And after four years of my being called a sensitive libtard snowflake, perhaps others can be a little less sensitive rather than acting like I am completely unjustified in my angst. Now back to spending time with my kids and teaching them how to be kind, caring, honest, open-minded, self-aware Americans who act for the best interest of all humankind.

Go Duke!

[CameronBornAndBred]

For someone who loves order, structure, compromise and peace, it feels a bit weird to be a lightning rod. I apologize if I caused anyone discomfort and if CB&B wants me to take a timeout

Fuck that.
Keep on keeping on. Muzzled voices make for a muted community.

(PS, good stuff on the rest that you wrote. As always, people are welcome to disagree and debate on it.)

[gumbomoop]

Wonderful post, CNC. I don’t have time to highlight every important point with which I agree, though I applaud your post.

I am composing a response to rj199, too, but it might wind up being superfluous.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Another solid speech by Biden tonight. Can't wait to hear both him and Harris in celebration.

[OPK]

Wonderful post, CNC. I don’t have time to highlight every important point with which I agree, though I applaud your post.

I am composing a response to rj199, too, but it might wind up being superfluous.

Hopefully rj199 will be back. And he is quite articulate so he doesn’t need me to speak for him. But let me give my perspective on part of what I took from his post.

It’s pretty clear that I do not like Trump. But I have plenty of friends, family, co-workers and business clients who do. The broad brush some put to these folks (not you, not any poster here) as racists, uneducated, or other shades of deplorable is simply wrong. AND is as intolerant as the images those Trump haters attribute to Trump supporters.

People tend to overlook their team’s bad qualities because, well, it’s their team. If you supported Bill Clinton (which I did) then you overlooked a history of sexual assault allegations and shady real estate deals for the greater good. That doesn’t make those supporters bad or evil — it makes them human.

Trump to me is a boatload too far of personal shortcomings. BUT if you are strongly pro-life, he’s your only choice. If you’re strongly second amendment, he’s your only choice. If you are strongly against PC culture, he’s your only choice. And that’s before getting to debatable issues about who has the better economic platform, who has the better immigration policy, who has the better view of America’s role (and the cost of that role) in policing the world. Overlooking someone’s faults does not equate to adopting those faults. And looking down at someone else for the choices they make — whether it be political choices or otherwise — is a human reaction but it is not a positive one.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself. Or as the prophet Dave Mason sang:

So let’s say goodnight
‘Cause we don’t see eye to eye
There ain’t no good guy
There ain’t no bad guy
There’s only you and me
And we just disagree.

———

Tl;dr — I’m not gonna sit here and defend Trump. But I do defend the right of my fellow countrymen to support him in good faith. These folks are not deplorable, they are not dumb, you are not better or worse than they are. You simply disagree. And until we depersonalize this divide on both sides, we cannot make progress in this country.

Anyway, that’s my Ted Talk. Thanks for listening. G’night.

[OPK]

^^^ AND TO EMPHASIZE: this is not directed at gumbo or any other poster. I hope that was clear but it is worth repeating.

And for the moment of Zen, let me present said Dave Mason song:

https://youtu.be/_HPVVuCYBAs

[OPK]

I see I slightly misquoted the prophet Dave Mason, the memory is not as sharp as it once may have been. Apologies.

Should be:

So let’s leave it alone
‘Cause we don’t see eye to eye
There ain’t no good guy
There ain’t no bad guy
There’s only you and me
And we just disagree.


Same thing to me but want to be accurate.

[dudog]

I know the America Firsters (had to make sure I didn't type Fisters) don't give a whit about anything beyond our shores, and I don't believe this issue is getting enough attention. It is unbelievably disheartening the damage Trump is doing to democracy around the world. This will destabilize the planet, because not only are democracies good for people, they are good for peace. Authoritarian strongmen love to throw their weight around and are much more prone to warlike behavior, in large part because they don't care about the damage they cause to anyone else's life in pursuance of the stroking of their ego.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/lo ... li=BBorjTa

I think this is the very definition of "Giving aid and comfort to the enemy". It has to be stopped.

[CameronBornAndBred]

CALLED!!!! President Elect Biden!!!!!

[gumbomoop]

Trump to me is a boatload too far of personal shortcomings. BUT if you are strongly pro-life, he’s your only choice. If you’re strongly second amendment, he’s your only choice. If you are strongly against PC culture, he’s your only choice. And that’s before getting to debatable issues about who has the better economic platform, who has the better immigration policy, who has the better view of America’s role (and the cost of that role) in policing the world. Overlooking someone’s faults does not equate to adopting those faults. And looking down at someone else for the choices they make — whether it be political choices or otherwise — is a human reaction but it is not a positive one.

Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself.[/quote]

^^^ AND TO EMPHASIZE: this is not directed at gumbo or any other poster.

I wouldn’t be offended if your eloquent defense of rj199 and (some) Trump voters is directed at me. We just disagree on some big points. Perhaps starting with “judge not.”

I “judge” stuff all the time, and am willing to have my judgments judged, specifically here my critical analysis of Trumpism. I will even acknowledge that I may cross over into “judgmentalism,” though I hope not. I believe that the social scientific reliance on “critical analysis” should not be a cliché; it should be an investigative first principle. Critical analysis means using one’s critical faculties to examine evidence to break down X (analyze X) into component parts, to see how it works, to see what makes it tick. In this case, X is Trumpism.

Below is my critical analysis of Trumpism, jumping off from rj199’s post, with pointed comments about Trump but focused on Trump supporters. It is my judgment, based on critical analysis. Perfectly fair for anyone to judge my argument, assess its accuracy and persuasiveness.

I won’t repost richardjackson199’s understandably impassioned response to CNC’s also impassioned post. But I do want to respond, as I think his post avoids some fundamental issues. Because I have not carefully followed the debate OY, I don’t know who’s been banned OY and why. I infer from his reference to “ridiculed, chased away, or silenced (OY)” that he himself feels ridiculed.

It’s an awkward task to criticize substantively and seriously, yet also sensitively, another’s post on such a contentious matter. Trump and Trumpism do not inhabit our normal political spectrum. Reactionary populism is not totally new in the American experience, but it has never captured the loyalty of anything close to 70 million Americans.

From my fiercely anti-Trump and anti-Trumpism perspective, I find it pretty ironic for a Trump supporter to complain of feeling ridiculed and silenced. For it’s the “manly” Trumpists who delight in calling their opponents “snowflakes.” “Pardon me if I don’t give a damn about your feelings,” snarl the manly Trumpists.

Now, I believe rj199 does not do that sort of thing. Just from his single post, I’ll concede he’s very likely to be just an everyday nicer person than I am. I’m full of enraged, pissed-off patriotism. In 2016 I voted in the Republican primary for a pissed-off patriot, John Kasich, who struggled mightily to contain his disgust as Trump moved toward the Republican nomination. As I have posted before, my patriotic anger is directed not merely toward Trump, but to cowardly Republican Senators, immature Republican House members, and what for the present I’ll characterize as “low-information” Trump voters.

Trump is a sociopath, a deep (i.e., shallow) narcissist, a pathological liar, a lifelong fraud and grifter, a failed businessman who has defaulted on major loans and declared bankruptcy repeatedly. He cares not one whit about democracy, the U.S. Constitution, the honor of the Presidential office, or the American people. He was taught by his father to cheat people before they cheat you, which message was reinforced in the 1980s by his mob-vicious NY “mentor,” Roy Cohn, none other than Joseph McCarthy’s right-hand man.

Trump has foisted his sociopathies onto this great country and its wonderful people, some millions of whom have willingly and thus shockingly accepted the burden of Trump’s literal madness. His MAGA slogan is .... a slogan. He has done absolutely nothing to make this country great, not ever in his sociopathic life. He has uplifted no one, ever, and cheated everyone he could, always. Thus, when rj199 says “Trump has some serious flaws and did some bad things,” my response is that this is a serious understatement of Trump’s pathologies. He does not have merely “some” flaws, nor has he done merely “some” bad things. His moral defects, his serial cruelties, are unprecedented in the American Presidency, by several orders of magnitude.

Trump isn’t committed to a pro-life position, nor to any part of our Constitution. He has no understanding of the complexities of the abortion issue, nor has he recently, if ever, read the U.S. Constitution. Joe Biden is hardly an exemplar of political correctness, whereas in multiple ways Trump proudly parades the ugliest moral/political “incorrectnesses.”

To wit: Trump has a history of racist dog-whistling, from the outrageous full-page ad against the Central Park 5, to his fevered “birtherism” obsession, his constant refrain about “saving the suburbs from thugs,” to his pathetic inability even to honor the late John Lewis. Trump is a lifelong racial provocateur. Racists recognize and celebrate him as one of them. He basks, if coyly — patently implausible deniability — in their praise of his white nationalist fulminations.

Similarly, neo-Nazis and QAnon nutters celebrate Trump as their Mussolini. He is the Strongman/Q who will recreate the golden age of white Christian “pure Americanism.” Trumpism is fascism. He ran on fascist themes in 2016 and has elaborated on those themes throughout his Presidency and in the current campaign.

So, I recognize that millions of Trump voters are as sincere in their patriotism as am I in mine. But we understand patriotism through a fundamentally different historical prism. Trump’s call to patriotic triumphalism is without substance. It depends on an emotional attachment to a mythological, fairy-tale vision of American history.

Similarly, when Trump supporters say he has regained respect for America in the world, they ignore the reality of the unthinkable surrender of world leadership under Trump. He is seen as a dangerous clown by all of our Western democratic allies. Their common refrain is, “Have the American people lost their minds?” Far too many Trump supporters defiantly respond, “FU, we don’t need any of you.” Foreign policy pros know better. But actual knowledge-from-experience doesn’t impress many Trump voters. They prefer Trump’s “gut instincts.”

I do not know how to say, nicely, to someone who has voted twice for Trump, “You are voting for a sociopathic fascist, a man of monstrous cruelty, an American Mussolini.” How to state, politely and humanely, what everyday evidence, red warning lights furiously flashing, tells us has been and to this very moment is an existential threat to our constitutional democratic republic?

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Trump to me is a boatload too far of personal shortcomings. BUT if you are strongly pro-life, he’s your only choice. If you’re strongly second amendment, he’s your only choice. If you are strongly against PC culture, he’s your only choice. And that’s before getting to debatable issues about who has the better economic platform, who has the better immigration policy, who has the better view of America’s role (and the cost of that role) in policing the world. Overlooking someone’s faults does not equate to adopting those faults. And looking down at someone else for the choices they make — whether it be political choices or otherwise — is a human reaction but it is not a positive one.

Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself.

^^^ AND TO EMPHASIZE: this is not directed at gumbo or any other poster.

I wouldn’t be offended if your eloquent defense of rj199 and (some) Trump voters is directed at me. We just disagree on some big points. Perhaps starting with “judge not.”

I “judge” stuff all the time, and am willing to have my judgments judged, specifically here my critical analysis of Trumpism. I will even acknowledge that I may cross over into “judgmentalism,” though I hope not. I believe that the social scientific reliance on “critical analysis” should not be a cliché; it should be an investigative first principle. Critical analysis means using one’s critical faculties to examine evidence to break down X (analyze X) into component parts, to see how it works, to see what makes it tick. In this case, X is Trumpism.

Below is my critical analysis of Trumpism, jumping off from rj199’s post, with pointed comments about Trump but focused on Trump supporters. It is my judgment, based on critical analysis. Perfectly fair for anyone to judge my argument, assess its accuracy and persuasiveness.

I won’t repost richardjackson199’s understandably impassioned response to CNC’s also impassioned post. But I do want to respond, as I think his post avoids some fundamental issues. Because I have not carefully followed the debate OY, I don’t know who’s been banned OY and why. I infer from his reference to “ridiculed, chased away, or silenced (OY)” that he himself feels ridiculed.

It’s an awkward task to criticize substantively and seriously, yet also sensitively, another’s post on such a contentious matter. Trump and Trumpism do not inhabit our normal political spectrum. Reactionary populism is not totally new in the American experience, but it has never captured the loyalty of anything close to 70 million Americans.

From my fiercely anti-Trump and anti-Trumpism perspective, I find it pretty ironic for a Trump supporter to complain of feeling ridiculed and silenced. For it’s the “manly” Trumpists who delight in calling their opponents “snowflakes.” “Pardon me if I don’t give a damn about your feelings,” snarl the manly Trumpists.

Now, I believe rj199 does not do that sort of thing. Just from his single post, I’ll concede he’s very likely to be just an everyday nicer person than I am. I’m full of enraged, pissed-off patriotism. In 2016 I voted in the Republican primary for a pissed-off patriot, John Kasich, who struggled mightily to contain his disgust as Trump moved toward the Republican nomination. As I have posted before, my patriotic anger is directed not merely toward Trump, but to cowardly Republican Senators, immature Republican House members, and what for the present I’ll characterize as “low-information” Trump voters.

Trump is a sociopath, a deep (i.e., shallow) narcissist, a pathological liar, a lifelong fraud and grifter, a failed businessman who has defaulted on major loans and declared bankruptcy repeatedly. He cares not one whit about democracy, the U.S. Constitution, the honor of the Presidential office, or the American people. He was taught by his father to cheat people before they cheat you, which message was reinforced in the 1980s by his mob-vicious NY “mentor,” Roy Cohn, none other than Joseph McCarthy’s right-hand man.

Trump has foisted his sociopathies onto this great country and its wonderful people, some millions of whom have willingly and thus shockingly accepted the burden of Trump’s literal madness. His MAGA slogan is .... a slogan. He has done absolutely nothing to make this country great, not ever in his sociopathic life. He has uplifted no one, ever, and cheated everyone he could, always. Thus, when rj199 says “Trump has some serious flaws and did some bad things,” my response is that this is a serious understatement of Trump’s pathologies. He does not have merely “some” flaws, nor has he done merely “some” bad things. His moral defects, his serial cruelties, are unprecedented in the American Presidency, by several orders of magnitude.

Trump isn’t committed to a pro-life position, nor to any part of our Constitution. He has no understanding of the complexities of the abortion issue, nor has he recently, if ever, read the U.S. Constitution. Joe Biden is hardly an exemplar of political correctness, whereas in multiple ways Trump proudly parades the ugliest moral/political “incorrectnesses.”

To wit: Trump has a history of racist dog-whistling, from the outrageous full-page ad against the Central Park 5, to his fevered “birtherism” obsession, his constant refrain about “saving the suburbs from thugs,” to his pathetic inability even to honor the late John Lewis. Trump is a lifelong racial provocateur. Racists recognize and celebrate him as one of them. He basks, if coyly — patently implausible deniability — in their praise of his white nationalist fulminations.

Similarly, neo-Nazis and QAnon nutters celebrate Trump as their Mussolini. He is the Strongman/Q who will recreate the golden age of white Christian “pure Americanism.” Trumpism is fascism. He ran on fascist themes in 2016 and has elaborated on those themes throughout his Presidency and in the current campaign.

So, I recognize that millions of Trump voters are as sincere in their patriotism as am I in mine. But we understand patriotism through a fundamentally different historical prism. Trump’s call to patriotic triumphalism is without substance. It depends on an emotional attachment to a mythological, fairy-tale vision of American history.

Similarly, when Trump supporters say he has regained respect for America in the world, they ignore the reality of the unthinkable surrender of world leadership under Trump. He is seen as a dangerous clown by all of our Western democratic allies. Their common refrain is, “Have the American people lost their minds?” Far too many Trump supporters defiantly respond, “FU, we don’t need any of you.” Foreign policy pros know better. But actual knowledge-from-experience doesn’t impress many Trump voters. They prefer Trump’s “gut instincts.”

I do not know how to say, nicely, to someone who has voted twice for Trump, “You are voting for a sociopathic fascist, a man of monstrous cruelty, an American Mussolini.” How to state, politely and humanely, what everyday evidence, red warning lights furiously flashing, tells us has been and to this very moment is an existential threat to our constitutional democratic republic?
[/quote]


Thank you. Very eloquently and accurately stated.

[CameronBornAndBred]

The victory event tonight had the feeling of true finality tonight. Trump can whine all he wants, but the Biden administration is moving forward, and moving in to the White House. JB's got lots on his plate to work on healing this country, but he seems truly driven to do it.

Also, GA is nearing 10K votes in Biden's favor. AZ is looking iffy. I'd love for it to hold just to keep that projected "306" number.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

https://youtu.be/cSHI6kGfwKs

Enjoy!