Biden won, it's over --- The Election Thread

[CameronBornAndBred]

Serious question — did you watch the Democratic debates?

I did, most of it.

Thanks. That was the rap on Biden going into the debates from the other Dem contenders, and I thought he did fine (especially after the first few).

Ultimate I doubt the debates change much. Everyone has made up their minds and will see what they want to see from both candidates.

Call the question.

I dunno. I think these very well could, because Trump has based more than half of his run at a second term on "Sleepy Joe". Well, if Sleepy comes out and kicks his ass, people are going to notice. In fact, if Sleepy simply pulls a draw, people are going to notice.

[OPK]

That being said, nobody's comments will ever be deleted here, unless something breaks down into a name calling match, and I have faith that we are all above that fray.

Phhht. Hippie.

We've got smilies for that kind of name calling.

How do I add an image from my photos to respond?

[CameronBornAndBred]

Phhht. Hippie.

We've got smilies for that kind of name calling.

How do I add an image from my photos to respond?

Scroll down, you will see under the post window options/attachments. Click attachments, add files, and once uploaded, click "place inline".

[OPK]

We've got smilies for that kind of name calling.

How do I add an image from my photos to respond?

Scroll down, you will see under the post window options/attachments. Click attachments, add files, and once uploaded, click "place inline".

Thanks!

[CameronBornAndBred]

Thanks!

42BFC03B-2AF4-471E-96C9-B46A1C471C1A.jpeg

Seen that, and I want it!

[OPK]

Thanks!

42BFC03B-2AF4-471E-96C9-B46A1C471C1A.jpeg

Seen that, and I want it!

Since it cost a lot to win
And even more to lose
You and me bound to spend some time
Just wonderin’ what to choose . . . .

[gumbomoop]

FWIW, I live in a really red part of the country and hear all of this a lot. Whether you agree or disagree with this critique or its factual accuracy/inaccuracy, it is widespread where I am and is based on issues that motivate the right.

When folks on the left ask “how can anyone vote for Trump?” Wheat has provided a good insight into the answer.

I agree with OPK’s point here, but the “insight” that Wheat provides cannot be separated from the substance and quality of his argument. So I want to address that directly and thoroughly. I will not tag quote Wheat’s list of the Trump “policies.” I will refer to them generally, some specifically.

As I have posted before, I see Trump’s base as in 3 parts. Looking at the reasons Wheat cites for voting Trump Republican, I see no mention of such things as abortion, gay marriage, “religious freedom,” so I assume Wheat’s concerns are not those that top the list for white evangelicals. I don’t know whether Wheat thinks himself in the white working class, but generally the list he provides seems more typical of what I’ve termed come-home-to-Trump traditional Republicans.

First, Wheat says he is voting not for Trump but for “policies.” His reference to the media destroying good candidates is unconvincing, and is all-too-typical of Trump World’s view that the MSM is the fount of so many of our problems. Biden’s winning the Dem nomination was something of a fluke, true, but it had nothing to do with a destructive media. He won because of Jim Clyburn’s vocal, impassioned support at a key moment (SC primary). Biden got momentum. He’s not the most impressive even of the Dem centrists, but he does have a strong legislative and policy record. And in terms of character, competence, leadership, and accomplishment, he’s miles ahead of Trump.

Wheat concedes Trump is a “narcissistic ass.” True enough, and widely acknowledged by many Trump voters. But that only begins to describe the dangers of Trump’s grotesque character. That he is the proverbial dictionary/Wikipedia definition of a sociopath is enough on its own to disqualify him from any national leadership position, much less the presidency. Ditto for his pathological mendacity, or his history of sexual predations. Aided by Attorney General Barr, he undermines the rule of law, foundation of American democracy, daily. He’s a lifelong cheater in his business dealings, failing to pay workers, defaulting on loans repeatedly. Among the things we will learn from Trump’s tax returns, sooner or later, is that Trump turned to Deutsche Bank and Russian mobsters for money because New York banks were fed up with his cheating and lying, with his all-too-standard “business practices.” He’s a grifter, through and through. New York banks knew that 30 years ago.

So, does character pale in comparison to policy? Is character just unimportant in the 21st century, passé, in choosing the most powerful person in the world?

Has Trump exhibited either competence or leadership in this catastrophic pandemic? He has not. Indeed, in his rejection of scientific expertise, he exhibits what has become a key characteristic of Trump Republicans: distrust of experts and disbelief in science. Trump and his followers increasingly adopt loony conspiracy theories, such as QAnon filth. Wheat slips in a run-of-the-mill conspiracy theory: “I wonder who is pulling [Biden’s] strings from behind the curtain?” If you’re truly concerned about string-pulling, you might consider Trump’s role as Putin’s useful idiot. Are you truly concerned about what’s behind Trump’s curtain?

In this regard, consider Wheat’s examples of foreign policy issues. The implication that Trump has made us stronger in the world is laughable. Trump has deserted European allies and has strengthened China immeasurably and disastrously. Is China a longterm threat. Yes, and Trump’s illiteracy in American foreign policy is a gift to China and to Putin in particular. It will take years to repair the damage Trump has done to our foreign policy and international trustworthiness. Who cares about Europe, or Asia, or the Pacific region? Build walls.

In general, Wheat relies as much on slogans as “policy” to justify a vote for Trump — though Wheat preciously insists it’s not really a vote for Trump. “Globalism out of hand, support police, rebuild military.” This isn’t careful, detailed, grunt-work, serious policy, which Trump doesn’t do, period. He does impulses, as even his closest associates admit. Impulses. From the Oval Office, golf course, Mar-a-Lago. Impulses.

And the most telling slogan of all: America first, which Wheat labels a “philosophy.” Well, if it’s a foreign policy philosophy, it’s isolationism, comforting perhaps to head-under-covers Trump know-nothings. If it’s a political philosophy, it’s neo-fascism, an echo of the America First Movement of the 1930s. Is World War II old news? Like Biden, whose time has passed?

Many scholars who study fascism warn that it’s on our doorstop. It’s not coming; it’s here, now. Trump ran a fascist-themed campaign in 2016, and has in the last 3 years encouraged his supporters to see in him a unique “strongman” who will “save us.” The fascists and neo-Nazis know he’s one of them.

Trump is no conservative, as actual Republican conservatives, painfully deserting their beloved lifelong party, now write about daily. The Trump Party is not conservative, but radical-reactionary, a nostalgic impulse to return to the 1950s via a cult of strongman personality. Purveying his racist “white nationalism,” Trump is no patriot. MAGA, dog whistles to rogue police and militiamen-in-waiting, louder and louder this summer. American chaos and carnage, drowning out, Trump desperately hopes, death rattles from Covid.

Trump’s “policies”? Impulses from a sociopath. “Philosophy”? Fascist white nationalism. If one cannot see through Trump, one is practicing willful ignorance. Which is immediately endangering the survival of our constitutional democratic republic.

To vote for Trump’s policy impulses is to vote for lawlessness at home and American irrelevance abroad. To vote for his MAGA philosophy is to vote for fascism.

[ArkieDukie]

Slow down guys, I can’t keep up to all the replies necessary:)

Trump is not very presidential, no doubt. I’d love to vote for a different candidate that wasn’t a narcissist ass, but unfortunately this is what we have. The media destroys good people who try to serve, so they won’t run, and we get flawed politicians.

I vote on policy, not wether I like somebody. I look at actions on issues, and I like what Trump has been doing...mostly.

Some politicians speak eloquently and look presidential, looking you in the eyes, lying the whole way on what their real intentions are. Remember Obama saying pass Obamacare and you can keep your doctor? Or Bush’s famous read my lips, no new taxes before raising taxes once he got in? Even wild Bill saying he did not have sex with that women! My personal favorite.

Those are the ones I really can’t stand. And that’s most of them, so I don’t pay attention to much of their blathering, I just watch what they do.

Trump never suggested anybody should drink bleach ,btw. He just awkwardly discussed a potential treatment off the cuff as he is prone to do and botched it.

Biden is likeable. But his day has passed. He’s simply too old for this from what I’ve seen. Hard for me to imagine a serious conflict with China arising and Biden taking charge and making hard decisions.

I wonder who is pulling the strings from behind the curtain. I can’t trust him the be the moderate he is trying to portray. He looks to be a mouthpiece of Pelosi, Obama, Sanders, etc...

Why I’ll vote for the Republican Party...and Trump, sigh.
America first philosophy.
Trump has stood up to China and globalism. which was out of hand.
He challenged allies to pay their fair share and stopped the gravy train which was long over do.
He drastically reduced illegal immigration, despite democratic opponents, which will force better wages for American workers, mostly minorities.
Has reached out to minorities with inner city economic empowerment zones and criminal justice reform.
Is playing no games with Iran, (Sulimani), and put the rest of the Middle East on notice.
Supports the Israeli state and a Palestine State.
Negotiated a peace agreement between UAE and Israel, a start.
Negotiated better trade deals for the US.
Rebuilt our military.
Supports police.

Just off the top of my head....and democrats fought these policies the whole way with a stupid impeachment trial thrown in to try to slow down those changes.

Your list addresses many of the reasons that I hear from others who support Trump.

Regarding globalism: personally, I think Trump went too far in the opposite direction. He has alienated our allies. In fact, he has made us into an international laughingstock. I’m basing this on conversations with people in other countries. My niece confirms this; she lived in Switzerland for several months and had to answer lots of questions from people there. The same was true for me when I visited. Moreover, in pulling the US out of many international treaties, he created a leadership vacuum into which China has stepped. In other words, Trump has ceded the US’ now former international leadership role to China. It will take a L O N G time to fix that.

I do not entirely disagree with Trump’s stance on China. I just think the execution was poor.

Regarding the “stupid” impeachment trial: it was not stupid, just poorly executed all around. The Democrats didn’t do themselves any favors in limiting the charges, and the Republicans dismissed the whole thing without even doing their job. I listened to the redacted version of the Mueller Report in its entirety, and Mueller clearly laid out at least 11 cases of obstruction of justice. Trump was guilty and is the most corrupt person to occupy the Oval Office since Richard Nixon, and I’d argue that Trump is worse. Barr basically whitewashed the findings and exonerated Trump. As a result, Trump is getting even worse.

Biden also supports police. Trump’s claims that Biden wants to defund the police are not true.

[ArkieDukie]

FWIW, I live in a really red part of the country and hear all of this a lot. Whether you agree or disagree with this critique or its factual accuracy/inaccuracy, it is widespread where I am and is based on issues that motivate the right.

When folks on the left ask “how can anyone vote for Trump?” Wheat has provided a good insight into the answer.

I agree with OPK’s point here, but the “insight” that Wheat provides cannot be separated from the substance and quality of his argument. So I want to address that directly and thoroughly. I will not tag quote Wheat’s list of the Trump “policies.” I will refer to them generally, some specifically.

As I have posted before, I see Trump’s base as in 3 parts. Looking at the reasons Wheat cites for voting Trump Republican, I see no mention of such things as abortion, gay marriage, “religious freedom,” so I assume Wheat’s concerns are not those that top the list for white evangelicals. I don’t know whether Wheat thinks himself in the white working class, but generally the list he provides seems more typical of what I’ve termed come-home-to-Trump traditional Republicans.

First, Wheat says he is voting not for Trump but for “policies.” His reference to the media destroying good candidates is unconvincing, and is all-too-typical of Trump World’s view that the MSM is the fount of so many of our problems. Biden’s winning the Dem nomination was something of a fluke, true, but it had nothing to do with a destructive media. He won because of Jim Clyburn’s vocal, impassioned support at a key moment (SC primary). Biden got momentum. He’s not the most impressive even of the Dem centrists, but he does have a strong legislative and policy record. And in terms of character, competence, leadership, and accomplishment, he’s miles ahead of Trump.

Wheat concedes Trump is a “narcissistic ass.” True enough, and widely acknowledged by many Trump voters. But that only begins to describe the dangers of Trump’s grotesque character. That he is the proverbial dictionary/Wikipedia definition of a sociopath is enough on its own to disqualify him from any national leadership position, much less the presidency. Ditto for his pathological mendacity, or his history of sexual predations. Aided by Attorney General Barr, he undermines the rule of law, foundation of American democracy, daily. He’s a lifelong cheater in his business dealings, failing to pay workers, defaulting on loans repeatedly. Among the things we will learn from Trump’s tax returns, sooner or later, is that Trump turned to Deutsche Bank and Russian mobsters for money because New York banks were fed up with his cheating and lying, with his all-too-standard “business practices.” He’s a grifter, through and through. New York banks knew that 30 years ago.

So, does character pale in comparison to policy? Is character just unimportant in the 21st century, passé, in choosing the most powerful person in the world?

Has Trump exhibited either competence or leadership in this catastrophic pandemic? He has not. Indeed, in his rejection of scientific expertise, he exhibits what has become a key characteristic of Trump Republicans: distrust of experts and disbelief in science. Trump and his followers increasingly adopt loony conspiracy theories, such as QAnon filth. Wheat slips in a run-of-the-mill conspiracy theory: “I wonder who is pulling the strings from behind the curtain?” If you’re truly concerned about string-pulling, you might consider Trump’s role as Putin’s useful idiot. Are you truly concerned about what’s behind Trump’s curtain?

In this regard, consider Wheat’s examples of foreign policy issues. The implication that Trump has made us stronger in the world is laughable. Trump has deserted European allies and has strengthened China immeasurably and disastrously. Is China a longterm threat. Yes, and Trump’s illiteracy in American foreign policy is a gift to China and to Putin in particular. It will take years to repair the damage Trump has done to our foreign policy and international trustworthiness. Who cares about Europe, or Asia, or the Pacific region? Build walls.

In general, Wheat relies as much on slogans as “policy” to justify a vote for Trump — though Wheat preciously insists it’s not really a vote for Trump. “Globalism out of hand, support police, rebuild military.” This isn’t careful, detailed, grunt-work, serious policy, which Trump doesn’t do, period. He does impulses, as even his closest associates admit. Impulses. From the Oval Office, golf course, Mar-a-Lago. Impulses.

And the most telling slogan of all: America first, which Wheat labels a “philosophy.” Well, if it’s a foreign policy philosophy, it’s isolationism, comforting perhaps to head-under-covers Trump know-nothings. If it’s a political philosophy, it’s neo-fascism, an echo of the America First Movement of the 1930s. Is World War II old news? Like Biden, whose time has passed?

Many scholars who study fascism warn that it’s on our doorstop. It’s not coming; it’s here, now. Trump ran a fascist-themed campaign in 2016, and has in the last 3 years encouraged his supporters to see in him a unique “strongman” who will “save us.” The fascists and neo-Nazis know he’s one of them.

Trump is no conservative, as actual Republican conservatives, painfully deserting their beloved lifelong party, now write about daily. The Trump Party is not conservative, but radical-reactionary, a nostalgic impulse to return to the 1950s via a cult of strongman personality. Purveying his racist “white nationalism,” Trump is no patriot. MAGA, dog whistles to rogue police and militiamen-in-waiting, louder and louder this summer. American chaos and carnage, drowning out, Trump desperately hopes, death rattles from Covid.

Trump’s “policies”? Impulses from a sociopath. “Philosophy”? Fascist white nationalism. If one cannot see through Trump, one is practicing willful ignorance. Which is immediately endangering the survival of our constitutional democratic republic.

To vote for Trump’s policy impulses is to vote for lawlessness at home and American irrelevance abroad. To vote for his MAGA philosophy is to vote for fascism.

[Furniture]

Can we spork on this forum? There have been a couple of wonderful posts today. Non of Wheats I may add.

[ArkieDukie]

Can we spork on this forum? There have been a couple of wonderful posts today. Non of Wheats I may add.

Here’s our version:

[OPK]

For gumbo and Arkie

[CrazyNotCrazie]

FWIW, I live in a really red part of the country and hear all of this a lot. Whether you agree or disagree with this critique or its factual accuracy/inaccuracy, it is widespread where I am and is based on issues that motivate the right.

When folks on the left ask “how can anyone vote for Trump?” Wheat has provided a good insight into the answer.

I agree with OPK’s point here, but the “insight” that Wheat provides cannot be separated from the substance and quality of his argument. So I want to address that directly and thoroughly. I will not tag quote Wheat’s list of the Trump “policies.” I will refer to them generally, some specifically.

As I have posted before, I see Trump’s base as in 3 parts. Looking at the reasons Wheat cites for voting Trump Republican, I see no mention of such things as abortion, gay marriage, “religious freedom,” so I assume Wheat’s concerns are not those that top the list for white evangelicals. I don’t know whether Wheat thinks himself in the white working class, but generally the list he provides seems more typical of what I’ve termed come-home-to-Trump traditional Republicans.

First, Wheat says he is voting not for Trump but for “policies.” His reference to the media destroying good candidates is unconvincing, and is all-too-typical of Trump World’s view that the MSM is the fount of so many of our problems. Biden’s winning the Dem nomination was something of a fluke, true, but it had nothing to do with a destructive media. He won because of Jim Clyburn’s vocal, impassioned support at a key moment (SC primary). Biden got momentum. He’s not the most impressive even of the Dem centrists, but he does have a strong legislative and policy record. And in terms of character, competence, leadership, and accomplishment, he’s miles ahead of Trump.

Wheat concedes Trump is a “narcissistic ass.” True enough, and widely acknowledged by many Trump voters. But that only begins to describe the dangers of Trump’s grotesque character. That he is the proverbial dictionary/Wikipedia definition of a sociopath is enough on its own to disqualify him from any national leadership position, much less the presidency. Ditto for his pathological mendacity, or his history of sexual predations. Aided by Attorney General Barr, he undermines the rule of law, foundation of American democracy, daily. He’s a lifelong cheater in his business dealings, failing to pay workers, defaulting on loans repeatedly. Among the things we will learn from Trump’s tax returns, sooner or later, is that Trump turned to Deutsche Bank and Russian mobsters for money because New York banks were fed up with his cheating and lying, with his all-too-standard “business practices.” He’s a grifter, through and through. New York banks knew that 30 years ago.

So, does character pale in comparison to policy? Is character just unimportant in the 21st century, passé, in choosing the most powerful person in the world?

Has Trump exhibited either competence or leadership in this catastrophic pandemic? He has not. Indeed, in his rejection of scientific expertise, he exhibits what has become a key characteristic of Trump Republicans: distrust of experts and disbelief in science. Trump and his followers increasingly adopt loony conspiracy theories, such as QAnon filth. Wheat slips in a run-of-the-mill conspiracy theory: “I wonder who is pulling [Biden’s] strings from behind the curtain?” If you’re truly concerned about string-pulling, you might consider Trump’s role as Putin’s useful idiot. Are you truly concerned about what’s behind Trump’s curtain?

In this regard, consider Wheat’s examples of foreign policy issues. The implication that Trump has made us stronger in the world is laughable. Trump has deserted European allies and has strengthened China immeasurably and disastrously. Is China a longterm threat. Yes, and Trump’s illiteracy in American foreign policy is a gift to China and to Putin in particular. It will take years to repair the damage Trump has done to our foreign policy and international trustworthiness. Who cares about Europe, or Asia, or the Pacific region? Build walls.

In general, Wheat relies as much on slogans as “policy” to justify a vote for Trump — though Wheat preciously insists it’s not really a vote for Trump. “Globalism out of hand, support police, rebuild military.” This isn’t careful, detailed, grunt-work, serious policy, which Trump doesn’t do, period. He does impulses, as even his closest associates admit. Impulses. From the Oval Office, golf course, Mar-a-Lago. Impulses.

And the most telling slogan of all: America first, which Wheat labels a “philosophy.” Well, if it’s a foreign policy philosophy, it’s isolationism, comforting perhaps to head-under-covers Trump know-nothings. If it’s a political philosophy, it’s neo-fascism, an echo of the America First Movement of the 1930s. Is World War II old news? Like Biden, whose time has passed?

Many scholars who study fascism warn that it’s on our doorstop. It’s not coming; it’s here, now. Trump ran a fascist-themed campaign in 2016, and has in the last 3 years encouraged his supporters to see in him a unique “strongman” who will “save us.” The fascists and neo-Nazis know he’s one of them.

Trump is no conservative, as actual Republican conservatives, painfully deserting their beloved lifelong party, now write about daily. The Trump Party is not conservative, but radical-reactionary, a nostalgic impulse to return to the 1950s via a cult of strongman personality. Purveying his racist “white nationalism,” Trump is no patriot. MAGA, dog whistles to rogue police and militiamen-in-waiting, louder and louder this summer. American chaos and carnage, drowning out, Trump desperately hopes, death rattles from Covid.

Trump’s “policies”? Impulses from a sociopath. “Philosophy”? Fascist white nationalism. If one cannot see through Trump, one is practicing willful ignorance. Which is immediately endangering the survival of our constitutional democratic republic.

To vote for Trump’s policy impulses is to vote for lawlessness at home and American irrelevance abroad. To vote for his MAGA philosophy is to vote for fascism.

Thank you for your really well put post. You synthesized my rage from my posts yesterday into coherent, irrefutable statements. My few pro-Trump friends think that I need to "lighten up" and that Trump is often "just joking." He is the president of the United States. It is a serious job. Words matter. He has successfully confused the average American so much that they just blindly follow him and believe everything he says. As someone who likes structure, order and rules, I really can't take the daily chaos anymore - I wish I could have invested in the therapist industry at the start of the Trump administration. But I think it is those who need therapists the most, such as Trump, who are not seeing them.

[Wheat/“/“/“]

I agree with OPK’s point here, but the “insight” that Wheat provides cannot be separated from the substance and quality of his argument. So I want to address that directly and thoroughly. I will not tag quote Wheat’s list of the Trump “policies.” I will refer to them generally, some specifically.

As I have posted before, I see Trump’s base as in 3 parts. Looking at the reasons Wheat cites for voting Trump Republican, I see no mention of such things as abortion, gay marriage, “religious freedom,” so I assume Wheat’s concerns are not those that top the list for white evangelicals. I don’t know whether Wheat thinks himself in the white working class, but generally the list he provides seems more typical of what I’ve termed come-home-to-Trump traditional Republicans.

First, Wheat says he is voting not for Trump but for “policies.” His reference to the media destroying good candidates is unconvincing, and is all-too-typical of Trump World’s view that the MSM is the fount of so many of our problems. Biden’s winning the Dem nomination was something of a fluke, true, but it had nothing to do with a destructive media. He won because of Jim Clyburn’s vocal, impassioned support at a key moment (SC primary). Biden got momentum. He’s not the most impressive even of the Dem centrists, but he does have a strong legislative and policy record. And in terms of character, competence, leadership, and accomplishment, he’s miles ahead of Trump.

Wheat concedes Trump is a “narcissistic ass.” True enough, and widely acknowledged by many Trump voters. But that only begins to describe the dangers of Trump’s grotesque character. That he is the proverbial dictionary/Wikipedia definition of a sociopath is enough on its own to disqualify him from any national leadership position, much less the presidency. Ditto for his pathological mendacity, or his history of sexual predations. Aided by Attorney General Barr, he undermines the rule of law, foundation of American democracy, daily. He’s a lifelong cheater in his business dealings, failing to pay workers, defaulting on loans repeatedly. Among the things we will learn from Trump’s tax returns, sooner or later, is that Trump turned to Deutsche Bank and Russian mobsters for money because New York banks were fed up with his cheating and lying, with his all-too-standard “business practices.” He’s a grifter, through and through. New York banks knew that 30 years ago.

So, does character pale in comparison to policy? Is character just unimportant in the 21st century, passé, in choosing the most powerful person in the world?

Has Trump exhibited either competence or leadership in this catastrophic pandemic? He has not. Indeed, in his rejection of scientific expertise, he exhibits what has become a key characteristic of Trump Republicans: distrust of experts and disbelief in science. Trump and his followers increasingly adopt loony conspiracy theories, such as QAnon filth. Wheat slips in a run-of-the-mill conspiracy theory: “I wonder who is pulling [Biden’s] strings from behind the curtain?” If you’re truly concerned about string-pulling, you might consider Trump’s role as Putin’s useful idiot. Are you truly concerned about what’s behind Trump’s curtain?

In this regard, consider Wheat’s examples of foreign policy issues. The implication that Trump has made us stronger in the world is laughable. Trump has deserted European allies and has strengthened China immeasurably and disastrously. Is China a longterm threat. Yes, and Trump’s illiteracy in American foreign policy is a gift to China and to Putin in particular. It will take years to repair the damage Trump has done to our foreign policy and international trustworthiness. Who cares about Europe, or Asia, or the Pacific region? Build walls.

In general, Wheat relies as much on slogans as “policy” to justify a vote for Trump — though Wheat preciously insists it’s not really a vote for Trump. “Globalism out of hand, support police, rebuild military.” This isn’t careful, detailed, grunt-work, serious policy, which Trump doesn’t do, period. He does impulses, as even his closest associates admit. Impulses. From the Oval Office, golf course, Mar-a-Lago. Impulses.

And the most telling slogan of all: America first, which Wheat labels a “philosophy.” Well, if it’s a foreign policy philosophy, it’s isolationism, comforting perhaps to head-under-covers Trump know-nothings. If it’s a political philosophy, it’s neo-fascism, an echo of the America First Movement of the 1930s. Is World War II old news? Like Biden, whose time has passed?

Many scholars who study fascism warn that it’s on our doorstop. It’s not coming; it’s here, now. Trump ran a fascist-themed campaign in 2016, and has in the last 3 years encouraged his supporters to see in him a unique “strongman” who will “save us.” The fascists and neo-Nazis know he’s one of them.

Trump is no conservative, as actual Republican conservatives, painfully deserting their beloved lifelong party, now write about daily. The Trump Party is not conservative, but radical-reactionary, a nostalgic impulse to return to the 1950s via a cult of strongman personality. Purveying his racist “white nationalism,” Trump is no patriot. MAGA, dog whistles to rogue police and militiamen-in-waiting, louder and louder this summer. American chaos and carnage, drowning out, Trump desperately hopes, death rattles from Covid.

Trump’s “policies”? Impulses from a sociopath. “Philosophy”? Fascist white nationalism. If one cannot see through Trump, one is practicing willful ignorance. Which is immediately endangering the survival of our constitutional democratic republic.

To vote for Trump’s policy impulses is to vote for lawlessness at home and American irrelevance abroad. To vote for his MAGA philosophy is to vote for fascism.

First, that “list” Of policies was just off the top of my head. I didn’t even note the excellent job Trump has done managing the economy, for example.

I’m going to try and address your post one point you make at a time.

1) I view myself as an American, not a white American. Why does the left make everything about race? As a conservative, I’m sick and tired of the left playing the race card in every situation possible. I don’t care about color, I care about character.
I’m pretty darn liberal on social issues. I have many friends of color.
While I don’t want to see abortions, I also don’t want government involved in a women’s decision that personal. Gay Marriage? Love who you love, I don’t care, I have many gay friends, too.

2) if you can’t see the bias in Mainstream Media, you need to take a step back and look again. It’s on both sides, but dominated by the left. I could give a thousand examples, but this post will be long enough. Look again and be honest with yourself.
Biden won the nomination because the party knew he was their only hope. None of the other candidates had a chance and they knew it. Even with the assist from China releasing the Covid virus, I think it’s likely Trump still wins. And yes, I think it was a deliberate action by China. Trump has been crushing them on trade and was cruising to a landslide victory without this pandemic mess he’s had to deal with. Idon’t believe in a coincidence like that.
Biden is a political swamp creature with little “accomplishment” in almost 50 years as a politician. You say he’s got a “strong” legislative and policy record? Really? What legislation has he passed that you consider strong?

3) Trumps foreign policy is not “isolationist”, it’s about America first and fairness.
Biden’s foreign policy as VP along with Obama was weak. Iran played both of them like a fiddle while causing unrest in the Middle East. Paris Climate accord? All those countries that participated ate our lunch economically by holding the US to higher standards than they were willing to abide by.
I could go on about our weak perception worldwide and at the UN under Obama/Biden...
Trump has changed that. He hasn’t deserted our European allies, he has held them accountable. We now have an embassy in Tel Aviv, and brokered a new peace agreement in the Middle East between Israel and UAE. That’s leadership.
He has Iran scared and on the ropes. He has settled the Kurds/Turkey issues for the most part, despite cries from the left he was abandoning the Kurds, who refused to stop launching terrorist attacks into Turkey. By simply allowing Turkey to create that 20 mile buffer between the Kurds and holding Turkey to the promise not to extend that territory into Syria, the problem has been settled. And he had the foresight to keep US control over the Syrian oil production to keep them from fighting over it. That’s how you lead from a position of strength.

4) If Trump has done all these criminal acts with banks, Russian mobs as you claim, then why hasn’t there been charges? It’s not like the US attorney in NY is on his side.
His taxes have to be complex with all the companies and different businesses he owns. Do you seriously think the biased media would be fair analyzing his taxes? That’s what the IRS is for. Charge him if he has done something criminal.

5) Trump wants to have a reasonable immigration policy. We can’t have illegal aliens pour into the country. Biden wants open borders. That’s unacceptable to me. If you don’t keep your front door of your house unlocked and refrigerator open for the homeless where you live, how can you expect the country to do the same?

6)Covid has been difficult to manage due to so many unknowns early on. I think he has managed it about as good as could be expected. The economy could have collapsed, people ruined, many more deaths with a larger shutdown. It’s a tough balancing act. In war there are casualties, and this is a war on the virus. I hold China accountable.

This administration has done a lot of positive changes in less than 4 years. Despite a hostile media and obstructionalist House.

Forget your Trump Derangement Syndrome, if you can, and focus on what’s actually happening in the world and how his response and policies have made things better for Americans.

[Phredd3]

4) If Trump has done all these criminal acts with banks, Russian mobs as you claim, then why hasn’t there been charges? It’s not like the US attorney in NY is on his side.

He is now, or haven't you been following along with the DOJ personnel decisions of Bill Barr? Furthermore, there is an explicit DOJ policy that the sitting U.S. President cannot be charged with a crime. Accordingly, all the SDNY can do is pound the turf around the President and go after his charity (shut down), business (investigation underway, but administratively impaired by the AG) and accomplices (Michael Cohen, guilty plea). Meanwhile, the President has pretty much run out the clock on providing the very same tax returns he flat-out stated during the campaign that he would provide. I'm curious what legal theory you propose for bringing charges?

His taxes have to be complex with all the companies and different businesses he owns. Do you seriously think the biased media would be fair analyzing his taxes? That’s what the IRS is for. Charge him if he has done something criminal.

Three guesses who appointed the current Commissioner of the IRS.

And this is the primary problem with Trump. It's not a question of whether or not you agree with him on policy. He is willing to bend the entire apparatus of government to achieve his political and personal goals. Even if you believe his policies are correct, I don't see how that isn't completely disqualifying.

That's what I find mysterious about the "hold your nose and vote for Trump anyway" line of argument. If you disagree with Biden so strongly, do you want government run this same way should Biden become President? Would you want Biden to appoint obedient heads of department into every position and then do things like order specific prosecutions to be dropped (Flynn) or specific close associates to have their sentences commuted (Stone) so things don't look bad for the President? Would you want Biden to use executive authority to move budgets from appropriated projects (military housing) to his own pet priorities (the wall)? Would you want him to "clear the square" for a political photo-op? Would you want him to change the routes of military aircraft (Scotland), or petition a foreign ambassador (Britain), or withhold funds from a putative ally ally (Ukraine) to benefit his personal interests? It is rank corruption, pure and simple. There is just no way to whitewash it.

I do not understand how it is possible to vote for outright corruption, regardless of what you think of his political policies. Because sooner or later, the shoe fits somebody else's foot and not yours.

[Wheat/“/“/“]

4) If Trump has done all these criminal acts with banks, Russian mobs as you claim, then why hasn’t there been charges? It’s not like the US attorney in NY is on his side.

He is now, or haven't you been following along with the DOJ personnel decisions of Bill Barr? Furthermore, there is an explicit DOJ policy that the sitting U.S. President cannot be charged with a crime. Accordingly, all the SDNY can do is pound the turf around the President and go after his charity (shut down), business (investigation underway, but administratively impaired by the AG) and accomplices (Michael Cohen, guilty plea). Meanwhile, the President has pretty much run out the clock on providing the very same tax returns he flat-out stated during the campaign that he would provide. I'm curious what legal theory you propose for bringing charges?

His taxes have to be complex with all the companies and different businesses he owns. Do you seriously think the biased media would be fair analyzing his taxes? That’s what the IRS is for. Charge him if he has done something criminal.

Three guesses who appointed the current Commissioner of the IRS.

And this is the primary problem with Trump. It's not a question of whether or not you agree with him on policy. He is willing to bend the entire apparatus of government to achieve his political and personal goals. Even if you believe his policies are correct, I don't see how that isn't completely disqualifying.

That's what I find mysterious about the "hold your nose and vote for Trump anyway" line of argument. If you disagree with Biden so strongly, do you want government run this same way should Biden become President? Would you want Biden to appoint obedient heads of department into every position and then do things like order specific prosecutions to be dropped (Flynn) or specific close associates to have their sentences commuted (Stone) so things don't look bad for the President? Would you want Biden to use executive authority to move budgets from appropriated projects (military housing) to his own pet priorities (the wall)? Would you want him to "clear the square" for a political photo-op? Would you want him to change the routes of military aircraft (Scotland), or petition a foreign ambassador (Britain), or withhold funds from a putative ally ally (Ukraine) to benefit his personal interests? It is rank corruption, pure and simple. There is just no way to whitewash it.

I do not understand how it is possible to vote for outright corruption, regardless of what you think of his political policies. Because sooner or later, the shoe fits somebody else's foot and not yours.

What personal interest has Trump sought out with his policies? Calling out Ukraine for Biden’s corruption with son Hunter to benefit his campaign? That’s laughable.


The lesson here is elections have consequences. Every administration appoints heads of departments to further their goals to govern, and deflect the attacks of the opposition.

BTW, Flynn was entrapped into a weak perjury charge and didn’t commit any collusion with Russians as was alleged. Neither did Trump or it would have been found out at the impeachment trial.

Nobody argues that Russians are trying to influence the election, and everybody else. They always have. It was stupid to try and pin Trump down as joining with them, it just didn’t happen and the democrats knew it. It was all a plan to tie up the administration run out the clock on his term, hoping to win this time around. What a waste of time when we could have been working on other issues to help Americans.

The unfortunate truth is there is corruption everywhere you look around government. Just look at the last administration and their actions for proof. If Trump is elected there will be criminal charges for weaponizing the FBI against an incoming duly elect president, you can bet on it. If Biden wins it will be swept under the rug, and that’s just how it will be.

Forget Trump. Just imagine a political slime ball like Mitt Romney as president, a smooth talker and back room dealing swamp creature as well, pushing the policies that Trump has done if it makes you feel better. Can you support the policies then?

Just to name a few...
Do you want controlled borders for the country?
Do you think trade relations with China were fair under the Obama/Biden administration?
Did you think NAFTA was a good deal for the US?
Do you think past dealings with Iran brought any benefit to the US and allies?
Do you like our energy independence and these low gas prices.
Do you like reasonable regulations on business and lower taxes?
How can you support democratic policies that have ruined large cities and been so unfair to minorities in inner cities?
Do you support 2nd amendment?

Biden has been on the wrong side of all those issues. I don’t see how anyone can vote for what democrats want, no matter how flawed Trump is.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Has anyone gotten on a flight lately full of dark shadowy people in black uniforms? No?

He also presented a series of conspiracy theories, claiming “people that are in the dark shadows” control both “the streets” and former Vice President Joe Biden. And he spun a conspiracy theory about an airplane:

“We had somebody get on a plane from a certain city this weekend. And in the plane, it was almost completely loaded with thugs, wearing these dark uniforms, black uniforms, with gear and this and that.”

Trump claimed the people on the plane wanted to “do big damage” to the Republican National Convention, yet offered no other details.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/donald-t ... 23001.html


When the President continues to throw out batshit crazy stories as this, without offering ANY facts to back ANYTHING up, I don't need any more reasons to not vote for him.

[dudog]

I was going to do a detailed reply, but realized it was a waste of time when the other person won't be honest (or is delusional), but I do thank the other posters for their efforts. However, a few things...

Did anyone else do a spit-take when the poster railed against lying politicians, said "I care about character", and numerous other ludicrous statements?

Re "it would have been found out at the impeachment trial", you mean the trial that called NO witnesses?

Re the great economy, you mean the economy falsely inflated by borrowing extravagantly from future generations? Running up the deficits is disgustingly immoral. And if you let me borrow unlimited amounts of money with no expectation of paying it back, I would live the high life too. But I like to sleep at night (and not in a jail cell).

Finally, re "America First". What a bunch of whiny horseshit from entitled white men. Wah wah wah. I really want to know, if the U.S. has been taken advantage of so badly, exactly how did we build the richest nation the world has ever seen? Pretty clearly we have been the one's taking advantage.

How did this nation become a bunch of crybabies?

[Phredd3]

OK, I'll bite. Answers in red:

Just to name a few...
Do you want controlled borders for the country? Yes, and we already have them. Good to have an easy one to start.
Do you think trade relations with China were fair under the Obama/Biden administration? Not entirely, no. I don't think tariffs helped, but concerns over IP theft are well-documented and well-justified.
Did you think NAFTA was a good deal for the US? Not flawless, but generally, yes. I'm certainly no expert on international trade, though, so I'm willing to be persuaded.
Do you think past dealings with Iran brought any benefit to the US and allies? I don't see an Iranian nuke, so...yeah, generally. Again, what we had was not perfect, but as of now we do not have an effective replacement for it and nuclear risk has been increased, not lessened.
Do you like our energy independence and these low gas prices. Yes to the first; no to the second. These two things are not inextricably linked. I tend to want to think beyond my price at the pump when it comes to energy and the state of the planet.
Do you like reasonable regulations on business and lower taxes? Yes to the first, no to the second. However, I suspect we differ as to the meaning of "reasonable regulations", and the conversation would need to discuss specifics to make sense. To me, lower taxes = lower services (I'm old school that way), so unless you tell me what services you are cutting, I do not favor lower taxes in the long term.
How can you support democratic policies that have ruined large cities and been so unfair to minorities in inner cities? I can't tell what specific policy or policies you have in mind here, so I can't answer this question as asked.
Do you support 2nd amendment? Sort of. The question is too complicated for a yes or no. I think the Second Amendment probably doesn't say what you think it says, and I think as written, it is desperately in need of an overhaul. However, as long as it remains a part of the Constitution in its current form (and it will for the foreseeable future), I support what it says as currently interpreted by SCOTUS.

So yeah, we have a few policy differences, unsurprisingly.

I'm somewhat amazed you don't seem to support the normative checks on Presidential power that have served the country well for over 200 years. "Elections have consequences" strikes me as a pretty glib response. I wonder how much you'd be willing to accept the Democratic equivalent of Trump? Fortunately for you, that proposition will not be tested, at least not in the immediate future, because Biden is in no way that guy. But imagine Bernie policy-wise and Trump's level of governmental control. How willing would you really be to just let it go if someone smugly told you "elections have consequences"?

Personally, I hope some of Biden's first acts are to propose additional restrictions on Presidential power, but I'm not naive enough to suppose that will really happen. Obama certainly didn't do that, and no modern-era Republican has ever even thought about it. We have lost our way when it comes to the naked arrogation of power into the Presidency. I fear for our entire electoral process, given the way we are heading, and I'm concerned that the day will come all too soon when elections will never be in doubt and therefore will NOT have consequences. If that seems overly dramatic to you, so be it. It's a real fear.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I fear for our entire electoral process, given the way we are heading, and I'm concerned that the day will come all too soon when elections will never be in doubt and therefore will NOT have consequences. If that seems overly dramatic to you, so be it. It's a real fear.

And a valid one, sadly.


Without starting a new post, here's something interesting. The courts are set to rule today on Trump's appeal against his tax ruling. How's this for a defense?

Consovoy added that "the President will be irrevocably injured if those records are disclosed," and said that would be true even if the records are disclosed only to prosecutors, without becoming public.
"You can't make them forget what they learned," Consovoy said. "You can't unring that bell."

His lawyers are flat out saying that what is going to be found is going to be bad for the President. So therefore, it shouldn't be discovered at all.
Of course regardless how this decision (and the ensuing appeal, again) is rendered, the taxes won't be public and they won't have any weight on this election.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/01/politics ... index.html