Biden won, it's over --- The Election Thread

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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by CameronBornAndBred » August 2nd, 2020, 1:45 pm

A look at why Biden is being successful in rust belt states while Clinton was not.
Biden has clear leads in an average of the last three CNN approved polls in the states of Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. On average, Biden is up by 9 points in Michigan, 11 points in Pennsylvania and 10 points in Wisconsin.
Biden's upward trajectory is because of vast improvements among White voters in a comparison of Biden's standing in each poll to how Clinton did with them in an average of post-election estimates from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study and Center for American Progress.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/02/politics ... index.html

Biden is up 50% to 41% in Pa in one of the latest polls mentioned.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by Wander » August 2nd, 2020, 1:56 pm

Furniture wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 1:12 pm
I am really scared shitless about the election process and what Trump might do. Listening to him putting doubt on it is tough. The only result he will basically accept is a win for him. How did we end up with this fascist in power? This is not democracy.
Me too. That's why I'm rooting hard for it to be a landslide, not just a win... if it ends up with Texas and Georgia as blue (which think is unlikely, but not impossible), it becomes much harder I think for Trump to enact something truly dangerous. But it's a scary time right now.

By the way, the talk of "character defects" or similar is a little silly to me. That's a phrase that should be used for like, people cheating on their spouses or drinking too much or something like that. I'd apply it for politicians like Bill Clinton. It's not really applicable for straight-up fascists.

Imagine saying "Well, I detest Emperor Palpatine's character, but I like his tax policy". I mean, that statement might technically be your true opinion, but...
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by CameronBornAndBred » August 2nd, 2020, 2:11 pm

HA!!!!
=)) =))
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by OPK » August 2nd, 2020, 2:25 pm

Wander wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 1:56 pm
Imagine saying "Well, I detest Emperor Palpatine's character, but I like his tax policy". I mean, that statement might technically be your true opinion, but...
Dude, Palpatine could almost build a Death Star every film or two. That’s getting things done.

We could use an Infrastructure Week like that around here. Just sayin’
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by Phredd3 » August 2nd, 2020, 3:46 pm

Wheat/“/“/“ wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 10:39 pm
The overriding issue for me is he may be the last president capable of keeping the country from sliding into socialism. if we reach that tipping point, I’m afraid there is violence and revolution in this country’s future.

I’ll be happy to reply to anyone who wants to try and convince me to change my mind, or question my choice, as time permits.
First of all, I am a recent invitee, as well, and I likewise want to thank CBB for asking me over. And I want to thank you, Wheat, for joining in. Engaging with folks you disagree with is the heart of democracy, IMO, and the number one mistake made in the U.S. is demonizing and refusing to even discuss politics in certain settings, so I appreciate your willingness to engage.

Second, I want to say that I have to intention of trying to change your opinion. And my motivation in questioning your choices is to understand them. We'll never find common ground if we don't understand each other's point of view.

With that in mind, is there any chance you can clarify the passage quoted above? It paints with a very broad brush, so I'd be curious if you can offer opinions on specific issues that you see as possibly moving us toward any tipping point into what you call socialism, and indeed, what it is that think socialism actually is.

For example, does the Affordable Care Act (ACA, Obamacare, whatever) qualify as a step toward socialism? If so, what about it is most "dangerous", from your point of view. I mention that one specifically because Republicans made that a major priority at the start of Trump's term and came within one vote of repealing it entirely. Moreover, the biggest issue taken with that legislation concerned the so-called "individual mandate", a means-tested tax penalty for not purchasing health insurance. That strikes me as the most "anti-selfish" part of the legislation (as per the Prager video you posted later) because it asks those who can afford to do so to independently purchase insurance of their own or compensate the population (represented through the government) for failing to do so. Yet, this provision was the most reviled part of what is now generally considered popular legislation, and is something the current administration has succeeded in removing. Now the administration has joined a lawsuit framing the mandate as the pillar provision of the law and seeking to strike the entire legislation down now that the mandate has been reduced to zero.

Do you approve/disapprove/or hold any relevant opinion relating to any part of that law?

Are there are other specific items that you feel Biden stands for that threaten to push the government over the top and into socialism? I'd be very interested to hear what they are and why you feel they push us too far in that direction.

Again, thanks for joining in.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by CameronBornAndBred » August 2nd, 2020, 3:51 pm

Phredd3 wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 3:46 pm
Wheat/“/“/“ wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 10:39 pm
The overriding issue for me is he may be the last president capable of keeping the country from sliding into socialism. if we reach that tipping point, I’m afraid there is violence and revolution in this country’s future.

I’ll be happy to reply to anyone who wants to try and convince me to change my mind, or question my choice, as time permits.
First of all, I am a recent invitee, as well, and I likewise want to thank CBB for asking me over. And I want to thank you, Wheat, for joining in. Engaging with folks you disagree with is the heart of democracy, IMO, and the number one mistake made in the U.S. is demonizing and refusing to even discuss politics in certain settings, so I appreciate your willingness to engage.
First off, :spork: to Phredd3 for a solid post.
Second, reiterating what he opened with. If this thread were full of a bunch of us hollering "Trump sucks and we ain't voting for him", it would be useless. Hopefully a few of the other folks from across the aisle will soon be posting here as well.

PS, to the new folks. While the Spork smiley is somewhere on the long list to the right when you are writing a post, it can be easily put in by typing spork with a colon mark on each side. So it would be :s p o r k: just without the spaces.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by OZZIE4DUKE » August 2nd, 2020, 4:20 pm

:spork: Hey! It worked!

Welcome to all our new OY posters. We’ve been having fun here for over ten fucking years now! No “Wankerizer” And the best smilie of all time! :9f: :9f: :9f: :9f: :9f:
Your paradigm of optimism

:9f: :9f: Go To Hell carolina! Go To Hell! :9f: :9f:
9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F!

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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by OPK » August 2nd, 2020, 4:25 pm

OZZIE4DUKE wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 4:20 pm
:spork: Hey! It worked!

Welcome to all our new OY posters. We’ve been having fun here for over ten fucking years now! No “Wankerizer” And the best smilie of all time! :9f: :9f: :9f: :9f: :9f:
And great sports chat. Y’know, if Duke :spork: :spork: :spork: :spork: :spork: sports start back up.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by Furniture » August 2nd, 2020, 4:29 pm

I did enjoy being able to write “shitless” and not get called a wanker. Being called a wanker is much worse imho.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by CameronBornAndBred » August 2nd, 2020, 4:38 pm

Furniture wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 4:29 pm
I did enjoy being able to write “shitless” and not get called a wanker. Being called a wanker is much worse imho.
:)) :)) :))
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by Wander » August 2nd, 2020, 4:45 pm

OPK wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 2:25 pm
Wander wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 1:56 pm
Imagine saying "Well, I detest Emperor Palpatine's character, but I like his tax policy". I mean, that statement might technically be your true opinion, but...
Dude, Palpatine could almost build a Death Star every film or two. That’s getting things done.

We could use an Infrastructure Week like that around here. Just sayin’
Like the Mexican Border Wall, the Death Star is really just a cartoonish symbol of fear designed to appeal to childish notions of what power is, and at the end of the day isn't particularly effective. Wouldn't it be more effective to use the same resources to build 1.3 million* Star Destroyers?

*That's the actual number using estimated costs of each spaceship, because of course those estimates actually exist
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by CameronBornAndBred » August 2nd, 2020, 5:48 pm

This is an op-ed, so it's not "factual", but it still contains lots of facts. I've often likened Trump's followers to cultists, or to music band followers. I've never been in a cult, but I'm a Dead Head and loyalist of a few other musical outings. Doesn't mean I bend on every song they put out, but I splatter their stickers on my car.

This is an interesting write up, essentially calling Trump's followers for what many of us see from the outside perspective. A cult.
If Trump calls the virus the "China Virus," so must his followers. If he says mail-in voting leads to fraud and that there is no Russian interference in our elections, or that he is the greatest of all presidents, then so say the faithful.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/letters-edit ... 55426.html

I don't argue with that take. IF you forsake your own morals to forward the agenda of the person that you are following, you are by definition a cultist. (This goes back to what some have posted above.)
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by OPK » August 2nd, 2020, 6:44 pm

Wander wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 4:45 pm
OPK wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 2:25 pm
Wander wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 1:56 pm
Imagine saying "Well, I detest Emperor Palpatine's character, but I like his tax policy". I mean, that statement might technically be your true opinion, but...
Dude, Palpatine could almost build a Death Star every film or two. That’s getting things done.

We could use an Infrastructure Week like that around here. Just sayin’
Like the Mexican Border Wall, the Death Star is really just a cartoonish symbol of fear designed to appeal to childish notions of what power is, and at the end of the day isn't particularly effective. Wouldn't it be more effective to use the same resources to build 1.3 million* Star Destroyers?

*That's the actual number using estimated costs of each spaceship, because of course those estimates actually exist
Could any of those big lunks do hyperspace speed? Otherwise it seems like a pretty regional threat.

Where the hell is the propulsion gear?

I’m beginning to think I need to call shenanigans on the whole thing, frankly.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by OPK » August 2nd, 2020, 6:47 pm

I mean, say you’re living on Alderaan. You hear they’re building a death-thingy In your sun’s sytem. Don’t you know you’re fucked? Jump a shuttle and get out of Dodge for force’s sake.

“use your brain, Luke”
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by OPK » August 2nd, 2020, 6:58 pm

If you stayed, it’s really on you.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by CameronBornAndBred » August 2nd, 2020, 9:46 pm

"I don't think he plans to leave the White House," Clyburn said of Trump. "He doesn't plan to have fair and unfettered elections. I believe that he plans to install himself in some kind of emergency way to continue to hold on to office."
- House representative Jim Clyburn

That fearful opinion is becoming more rampant, even among lawmakers. I wonder if they truly believe it, though, or are using it as a talking point to rile up voters. Perhaps both.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBnb7Kz
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread i

Post by ArkieDukie » August 3rd, 2020, 7:13 am

CameronBornAndBred wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 9:46 pm
"I don't think he plans to leave the White House," Clyburn said of Trump. "He doesn't plan to have fair and unfettered elections. I believe that he plans to install himself in some kind of emergency way to continue to hold on to office."
- House representative Jim Clyburn

That fearful opinion is becoming more rampant, even among lawmakers. I wonder if they truly believe it, though, or are using it as a talking point to rile up voters. Perhaps both.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBnb7Kz
It has been a genuine fear of mine for a while. Selectively sending troops to cities run by Democrats, for no particularly good reason, does not abate that concern. This fear is exacerbated by the fact that his supporters see nothing wrong with the President’s actions - even when you ask if they’d be upset if a Democratic President was selectively sending troops into cities run by Republicans. The response I got to that question was, “A Democrat would be too lazy to do it, and that’s why Trump has to send in the troops in the first place.” :twitch: Secondly, his fear-mongering about pretty much everything has his more devout followers riled to a fever pitch. I genuinely fear what will happen if he loses. (Note: these observations are based on FB posts of my friends and conversations with family members who live in rural NW AR, or, as I call it, Trumplandia. I recognize that other supporters are not as rabid as these; folks like Wheat are not going to take up arms and revolt. But, there are some who just might.)
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by dudog » August 3rd, 2020, 7:36 am

How 'bout some good news?

University of Akron poll out this morning of registered voters has Joe +4 in Ohio.

Feeling a bit sorry for Jason OY, the prez thread has died. What a thankless job. I hope he joins us over here.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by CameronBornAndBred » August 3rd, 2020, 8:53 am

dudog wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 7:36 am
How 'bout some good news?

University of Akron poll out this morning of registered voters has Joe +4 in Ohio.

Feeling a bit sorry for Jason OY, the prez thread has died. What a thankless job. I hope he joins us over here.
He's got an invite, and as far as I know he's read through this one. Hopefully he joins in.

Any bets on which day this week we learn of the VP pick? I know he is having face to face meetings with candidates, so it won't be today or tomorrow, but it would be nice if he didn't wait all the way til Friday.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by CameronBornAndBred » August 3rd, 2020, 9:01 am

Andrew Yang predicts that Biden "will clean his clock" when he gets on the debate stage with Trump. We don't know if that's true or not, but Yang does have the experience of being in debates with Joe. Never face to face to face, though. In fact, I'm not sure the two were ever on stage without at least 8 other people with them.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/andrew-y ... 27161.html
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