The Official "WWWD?" Thread

[ArkieDukie]

I have a theory that's been floating around in the back of my mind. Did Road Runner throw me under the bus by submitting Bar Minion's paper because I am still friends with MacGyver? The timing would be about right; their big breakup happened late last fall (just before the first big reveal of Bar Minion's work). BGS also dares to still work with/get advice from MacGyver, and now it appears that she's being punished as well. BM, being the devious little sycophant that she is, no longer talks to MacGyver, so she is golden. What does windsor think about this infernal mess?

First question...was MacGyver and RR's liason against policy or was it ok? based on my working knowledge, it probably wasn't a policy violation. If not then...
Sit down and think the timing through. Review RRs actions toward you, MacGyver, BGS and anyone else you think she retaliated against. Write them down.
Get your posterior to human resources and report it. Tell them that you believe she is creating a HOSTILE WORK ENVIRONMENT by 'punishing' anyone who collaborates with McGyver.
State your reasons.
This has two beautiful benefits. 1) HR must investigate 2)RR is forbidden to retaliate against you in anyway. This puts her in a bind..because retaliation is a very grey area. They will speak to McGyver, they will speak to BGS...and others. They will not be able to reveal WHO was the source. If RR were male, she would have just handed your her balls on a platter.

Holy shit, this is a beautiful idea, windsor. Yet again, you show your brilliance.

The person who REALLY needs to file the claim is MacGyver. She has cut him out of the research program that he established. She is actively badmouthing him to our colleagues and has actually squelched an internal collaboration with one of her cronies. The latest: at group meeting last week, she expressed plans to take over MacGyver's lab to expand her research capabilities in a particular area and made snide comments about the lab merely being storage space for a hoarder. She would be using equipment purchased by MacGyver. Her actions are not professional by any stretch of the imagination.

In my case, I have no solid evidence - only a gut feeling. Granted, my gut feeling is generally very good and I should stop ignoring it. Right now, my gut tells me that Road Runner knows that Natasha and I know that she threw us under the bus. I have been minimizing my interactions with RR since I found out what she did to Natasha and me. The group went out to lunch on Thursday, before group meeting, for BGS' birthday. Rather than letting her pay, as is the usual practice, I insisted on paying for my own meal. (At last group meeting she announced a new policy whereby faculty members would have to contribute financially; she had been paying before.) Group meeting was noticeably tense; she kept asking if anyone had anything they wanted to bring up. Natasha and BGS completely missed the MacGyver put-down because they had zoned out. Yesterday she called my office to ask if I was okay because I had been so quiet. I used workload as my excuse. Natasha said RR kept popping in on her yesterday to check on things as well. Natasha thinks Road Runner went with BarMinion's work over ours without thinking of long-term consequences, and she's now getting an inkling that the consequences might not be good.

[windsor]

The person who REALLY needs to file the claim is MacGyver. She has cut him out of the research program that he established. She is actively badmouthing him to our colleagues and has actually squelched an internal collaboration with one of her cronies. The latest: at group meeting last week, she expressed plans to take over MacGyver's lab to expand her research capabilities in a particular area and made snide comments about the lab merely being storage space for a hoarder. She would be using equipment purchased by MacGyver. Her actions are not professional by any stretch of the imagination.

In my case, I have no solid evidence - only a gut feeling. Granted, my gut feeling is generally very good and I should stop ignoring it. Right now, my gut tells me that Road Runner knows that Natasha and I know that she threw us under the bus. I have been minimizing my interactions with RR since I found out what she did to Natasha and me. The group went out to lunch on Thursday, before group meeting, for BGS' birthday. Rather than letting her pay, as is the usual practice, I insisted on paying for my own meal. (At last group meeting she announced a new policy whereby faculty members would have to contribute financially; she had been paying before.) Group meeting was noticeably tense; she kept asking if anyone had anything they wanted to bring up. Natasha and BGS completely missed the MacGyver put-down because they had zoned out. Yesterday she called my office to ask if I was okay because I had been so quiet. I used workload as my excuse. Natasha said RR kept popping in on her yesterday to check on things as well. Natasha thinks Road Runner went with BarMinion's work over ours without thinking of long-term consequences, and she's now getting an inkling that the consequences might not be good.

The beauty of it is, you don't need EVIDENCE. It is all about perception. If you make the claim that she is is retaliating against everyone who has anything to do with MacGyver (especially MacGyver) they have to talk to him. And Natasha. And BGS. The key words are intimidated, threatened, retribution. Bonus: if the claim is made she will have a VERY hard time snatching MacGyver's lab. Be sure and mention the main collaborator...it adds evidence. Remember that HR can not reveal who made the accusation.

[ArkieDukie]

The person who REALLY needs to file the claim is MacGyver. She has cut him out of the research program that he established. She is actively badmouthing him to our colleagues and has actually squelched an internal collaboration with one of her cronies. The latest: at group meeting last week, she expressed plans to take over MacGyver's lab to expand her research capabilities in a particular area and made snide comments about the lab merely being storage space for a hoarder. She would be using equipment purchased by MacGyver. Her actions are not professional by any stretch of the imagination.

In my case, I have no solid evidence - only a gut feeling. Granted, my gut feeling is generally very good and I should stop ignoring it. Right now, my gut tells me that Road Runner knows that Natasha and I know that she threw us under the bus. I have been minimizing my interactions with RR since I found out what she did to Natasha and me. The group went out to lunch on Thursday, before group meeting, for BGS' birthday. Rather than letting her pay, as is the usual practice, I insisted on paying for my own meal. (At last group meeting she announced a new policy whereby faculty members would have to contribute financially; she had been paying before.) Group meeting was noticeably tense; she kept asking if anyone had anything they wanted to bring up. Natasha and BGS completely missed the MacGyver put-down because they had zoned out. Yesterday she called my office to ask if I was okay because I had been so quiet. I used workload as my excuse. Natasha said RR kept popping in on her yesterday to check on things as well. Natasha thinks Road Runner went with BarMinion's work over ours without thinking of long-term consequences, and she's now getting an inkling that the consequences might not be good.

The beauty of it is, you don't need EVIDENCE. It is all about perception. If you make the claim that she is is retaliating against everyone who has anything to do with MacGyver (especially MacGyver) they have to talk to him. And Natasha. And BGS. The key words are intimidated, threatened, retribution. Bonus: if the claim is made she will have a VERY hard time snatching MacGyver's lab. Be sure and mention the main collaborator...it adds evidence. Remember that HR can not reveal who made the accusation.

I've thought about this a bit more. In the generic sense of "hostile workplace" I do have a claim. Lying to Natasha and I would certainly qualify. Feeling uncomfortable due to constant badmouthing of MacGyver would qualify, right? The whole deal with the instrument company comes into play, too. Right now it feels as though she's using MacGyver and me to get the deal, but recent actions lead me to believe we're out as soon as the deal goes through. In fact, based on something she said to me, I now believe she's planning to hire BarMinion's husband for the position she's been telling me she wants Natasha for. My gut tells me she has BarMinion penciled in for the job she says is mine. Does the clear bias toward BarMinion come into play when one discusses hostile workplace?

I've spoken with MacGyver about this, and neither of us feel comfortable going forward with the deal with the instrument company for exactly the reasons cited above. I cannot in good conscience tell them that things are sunshine and roses. Road Runner knows the company wants the 3 of us as a team, so she's presenting things in that manner to the company. As soon as the deal goes through, under the bus we go in favor of her annointed ones. At least, that's what my gut tells me. We need to decide how to deal with that issue, too. Of course, the institutional support may be a thing of the past based upon Road Runner's decision to skip the meeting with several key institutional people. I'm not sure what her motivation (make us look bad vs make us do all the work while she gets credit), but the person with the Provost's ear was not at all amused by her absence.

[ArkieDukie]

Upon further reflection, the hostile workplace claim could be easily expanded to include BarMinion. It appears that she sabotaged a grad student in order to steal her project and ultimately got her kicked out of the research group (BGS witnessed this). I ultimately wrote the paper over said project, yet BM was first author (I was given shared first authorship but was listed after her despite doing the lion's share of the work). BM has tried to bully BGS as well; RR accused her of being paranoid when she went to her with concerns. BM was supposed to teach BGS a particular lab technique for which she was the lab expert, but she "never had time" (ultimately Boris helped BGS). RR chewed out BGS for getting help from Boris rather than BM. BM takes credit for work she did not do (this happens to Boris all the time; it makes Natasha and BGS angrier than it makes him). BGS proposed an idea for her project based upon some data she had already acquired; RR nixed the idea. BGS has since found out that the project was assigned to, you guessed it, BM. After the latest explots, no one feels comfortable sharing project ideas with RR for fear they will be handed over to BM on a silver platter. I really want to see her paper because I suspect it will include elements of Natasha's and my work. She appears to have carte blanche to take over any project she wants. The grad student rumor mill is fully aware of the situation; it keeps RR from getting grad students. Rewarding BM makes the situation worse, not better. Seems like she would want to fix the problem; instead she takes actions that are even more damning.

[windsor]

Is there some personal connection between RR and BM (I am getting fuzzy on details) if so..that is a bonus.

[ArkieDukie]

Is there some personal connection between RR and BM (I am getting fuzzy on details) if so..that is a bonus.

Oh, yeah. They met up at their previous place of employment (a major pharmaceutical company). Both were let go in a huge round of layoffs. RR had the offer for her current job in-hand. Apparently RR moved heaven and earth to get a position for BM once she got here.

Here's where things get really interesting. Very recent intel suggests that the current working status between RR and BM goes back to those days. A source has revealed that RR was going rogue and doing her own thing; BM was her accomplice (she was a postdoc at the time). RR refused to share information about what she was doing with her employer. They were making her life miserable in an effort to get her to leave when the layoffs came through. Basically, they paid to get rid of her. Natasha has come around to our way of thinking that BM has something on RR and is blackmailing her. It may just come down to the fact that BM is a very skilled sycophant.

[windsor]

I would find out who my HR person was and make an appointment with them. Sooner is better than later.

[DevilWearsPrada2.0]

I would find out who my HR person was and make an appointment with them. Sooner is better than later.

Every work place has its issues!!!
Reminds me of a soap opera "As The World Turns", in this case

"As the Lab Turns".

Good Luck!!!

[ArkieDukie]

I would find out who my HR person was and make an appointment with them. Sooner is better than later.

Should I talk to The Boss at some point in order to fill him in on the situation? Should I ignore BGS' request and flat-out ask Road Runner about the paper before proceeding? I really, really think I need to see what is in the paper before going to HR. At this point my only option is to get a copy from Boris, but I could get him in trouble if he gives it to me.

Road Runner will be out of the country all next week with no email access. She leaves early in the morning. Lots of time to think about strategy and/or take action.

[windsor]

Does RR report to your boss? If not, then no I would not talk to him first.

Generally you do NOT inform your boss - in this case if RR is in his down chain you may want to give him a heads up but if you do and he doesn't act his fat will be in the HR fire.

[ArkieDukie]

Does RR report to your boss? If not, then no I would not talk to him first.

Generally you do NOT inform your boss - in this case if RR is in his down chain you may want to give him a heads up but if you do and he doesn't act his fat will be in the HR fire.

Yes, Road Runner does report to The Boss.

[windsor]

Does RR report to your boss? If not, then no I would not talk to him first.

Generally you do NOT inform your boss - in this case if RR is in his down chain you may want to give him a heads up but if you do and he doesn't act his fat will be in the HR fire.

Yes, Road Runner does report to The Boss.

What do you think boss will do?

[ArkieDukie]

I honestly don't know. He will not be happy about all the time I spent on work that was a duplication of Bar Minion's efforts. He already appears to have issues with RR, so this will not help her standing with him.

[windsor]

I honestly don't know. He will not be happy about all the time I spent on work that was a duplication of Bar Minion's efforts. He already appears to have issues with RR, so this will not help her standing with him.

Perhaps a 'heads up...shit storm a comin' meeting with him is in order'

[ArkieDukie]

It was an interesting week, to say the least. I got an email Thursday morning from a new hire of Red Dragon's, wanting to meet with me to discuss our capabilities in a particular area in which we currently have no capabilities. It is, however, the new area in which Red Dragon and Road Runner are angling for a financial contribution from a rich donor. As is usually the case, I have no insight into what Road Runner and Red Dragon have been discussing. Since I'm still playing dumb with RR, I printed out the email and took it to RR's office. Her response was that she had allegedly received the same note and had scheduled a meeting for 2:00 on Friday. I suggested that it might be more practical if I was in this meeting as well; Road Runner agreed with me.

Yesterday morning I received a call from RR. Red Dragon made her pitch to the rich donor; he upped the ante from $250,000 to $2 million. Recall that $200,000 of the donation was planned for the deal with the instrument company. That is now off the table; we can now buy the instrument outright, and sooner rather than later. (RR objective #1 met: this effectively takes MacGyver out of the deal.) She also said that personnel had been discussed, with my name and Natasha's in the mix. More details would be discussed in the 2:00 meeting. Red Dragon (vice chair of our department) had allegedly tried to discuss this deal with The Boss, and he wanted to make it into a center for HIS research. Therefore, the plan is to go around The Boss. (sixth sense going into alarm mode)

In a turn of events that was no big surprise to me, the new person (who reminds me a bit of NuBarbie at first impression) had already had discussions with Red Dragon and Road Runner. She is putting together the proposal for the donor and wanted additional details regarding the desired instrumentation and personnel. RR and I provided technical details. Then the discussion rolled around to personnel. Natasha's name came up immediately. There was some mention of me, but then a new name entered the mix: a semi-local person who was recently laid off from MDACC. RR has already spoken with her and she's interested. I said something about running the instrument, but RR said that the new person is interested in doing that and I would be doing data analysis. Major alarm bells are going off now, because I only recall her mentioning 2 additional people. If my suspicions are correct, she and Red Dragon are not going to involve me in their new center at all. I think my bus toss is imminent.

There's a part of me that wants no part in this deal, even though on paper it would be fabulous for me professionally. Red Dragon is not very well liked around campus because of exactly this type of manuveur. If you cross her, she does not rest until she manages to destroy you. I am watching her do this to one of my collaborators now because he dared to call her out. Road Runner is cut from the same cloth, and associating with them puts a huge stench of guilt by association on me. In a way, it's amusing to watch the show. Road Runner is so clearly using Red Dragon that it's not even funny, but Red Dragon is using her right back. I'm not sure how long two people like them can work together without a major explosion. I do not want to be caught in the cross-fire.

How would windsor proceed in navigating through this infernal mess? Should I out-and-out ask Road Runner about the math involved in the new positions? I cannot talk to The Boss without drawing the wrath of Red Dragon and Road Runner. I fear that trying to bow out gracefully draws the wrath of Road Runner, thereby turning her guns on me. Am I being set up to be the scapegoat, as the only person whose position The Boss can cut?

[windsor]

First thing...get thee to HR and bus toss RR for hostile workplace....it will add a layer or protection. If you act before they throw you under it ties their hands, because then there is appearance of retaliation...

Second thing depends on if you want to be part of their little project or not..and if 'yours is the job to that can be cut' means from their stuff or pink slip, hit the pavement alms for the poor cut...

I'm a little confused...

[ArkieDukie]

First thing...get thee to HR and bus toss RR for hostile workplace....it will add a layer or protection. If you act before they throw you under it ties their hands, because then there is appearance of retaliation...

Second thing depends on if you want to be part of their little project or not..and if 'yours is the job to that can be cut' means from their stuff or pink slip, hit the pavement alms for the poor cut...

I'm a little confused...

Join the club. I really, really would like to be a part of their little project. Problem is, the project is with THEM. Does that make sense? Potentially a great job, with two people I would not trust as far as I can throw them. Therein lies the key. Red Dragon is very much like another PushyPI in many ways. I've been to that movie before, and I did not like the ending.

After a bit of retail therapy, I decided that I need to gracefully bow out of their little endeavor ASAP. I have already stated that I cannot work with people I do not trust. It's also better if I bow out before I'm thrown under the bus - assuming my gut is correct and this is where it is all headed. The big question is, do I bow out in person or via email? I see advantages to both, with the main advantage to email being that my concerns are in writing.

[DukePA]

First thing...get thee to HR and bus toss RR for hostile workplace....it will add a layer or protection. If you act before they throw you under it ties their hands, because then there is appearance of retaliation...

Second thing depends on if you want to be part of their little project or not..and if 'yours is the job to that can be cut' means from their stuff or pink slip, hit the pavement alms for the poor cut...

I'm a little confused...

Join the club. I really, really would like to be a part of their little project. Problem is, the project is with THEM. Does that make sense? Potentially a great job, with two people I would not trust as far as I can throw them. Therein lies the key. Red Dragon is very much like another PushyPI in many ways. I've been to that movie before, and I did not like the ending.

After a bit of retail therapy, I decided that I need to gracefully bow out of their little endeavor ASAP. I have already stated that I cannot work with people I do not trust. It's also better if I bow out before I'm thrown under the bus - assuming my gut is correct and this is where it is all headed. The big question is, do I bow out in person or via email? I see advantages to both, with the main advantage to email being that my concerns are in writing.

Email

[ArkieDukie]

I'm thinking a nice, simple, "After further reflection, I have decided that I cannot be a part of your special endeavor. Best of luck" message is the way to go. Nothing more, nothing less. Very similar to what I did with the infamous PushyPI paper. Unlike PushyPI, however, I suspect one of the two key players will hunt me down to get an explanation. I'll play the "vulnerable position" card and leave out the "I don't trust you as far as I can throw you" card.

Based upon Friday's meeting, despite all that was said, I got the impression that they have no intent to involve me in the final project. I suspect I'm being used for my connections with the instrument company, to help them get a better deal. Once that happens, I'm suspect I will be out. If I am involved in their plans and The Boss is angered by the whole thing, I am the one most likely to pay the price. He pays the majority of my salary at the moment, and I cannot afford to be on his bad side. I already am in a way, simply due to my association with Road Runner. Both Road Runner and Red Dragon do not get along well with The Boss, so I also have the feeling that I'm being used as a political pawn. While I do not always agree with The Boss, I will not let myself be used by the dynamic duo. So, although the job sounds great on paper, ultimately it's not worth it.

[ArkieDukie]

One last question: would I be correct in assuming that I cannot talk to MacGyver about anything that is about to go down? My gut says that I want to be able to say that I did not discuss this with him and he did not influence my decision. This means I cannot tell him he has already been thrown under the bus, which will be very difficult.