The Official "WWWD?" Thread

[ArkieDukie]

Along with most of my other work assignments, these are given to me as outlook tasks.

This, coupled with the email telling you your work duties, raises red flags for me. At the 'borg, this level of documentation is usually the beginning of the end for an employee that is being managed out. It's really really really hard to fire someone for cause, so it all has to be documented - it allows for the manager to then say things like, "I asked so-and-so to do this by then, and s/he didn't do it until some later time, and without telling me in advance it would be late, nor why it was late."

About the only way to fight it is to be even MORE anal in documenting back the other direction -- "Bossman, you asked me to do 1,2 & 3, but didn't give me deadlines or priorities. I understand my work objectives to be a, b and c, and I have until X-date to complete related tasks. Could you please confirm how 1,2 & 3 meet those objectives? If they don't, please clarify my new objectives, prioritize them with my existing ones (or tell me which ones to drop), and reiterate your new date expectations given this new work."

Good luck - hope you're outta there soon!!!

Thanks, DA; that's very solid advice.

It might be interesting to see if I'm the only person in the lab that gets endless streams of outlook tasks. Everyone in the lab except me is involved in meetings where upcoming projects are discussed. Total BS.

[Lavabe]

Along with most of my other work assignments, these are given to me as outlook tasks.

This, coupled with the email telling you your work duties, raises red flags for me. At the 'borg, this level of documentation is usually the beginning of the end for an employee that is being managed out. It's really really really hard to fire someone for cause, so it all has to be documented - it allows for the manager to then say things like, "I asked so-and-so to do this by then, and s/he didn't do it until some later time, and without telling me in advance it would be late, nor why it was late."

About the only way to fight it is to be even MORE anal in documenting back the other direction -- "Bossman, you asked me to do 1,2 & 3, but didn't give me deadlines or priorities. I understand my work objectives to be a, b and c, and I have until X-date to complete related tasks. Could you please confirm how 1,2 & 3 meet those objectives? If they don't, please clarify my new objectives, prioritize them with my existing ones (or tell me which ones to drop), and reiterate your new date expectations given this new work."

Good luck - hope you're outta there soon!!!

[ArkieDukie]

I have another tricky work situation to deal with and would appreciate some input. I received an e-mail message this afternoon from a collaborator who happens to be a friend of Pushy PI (we'll call the collaborator FOPPI for short). FOPPI is currently writing a grant and wants to include 10% of my salary. No problem. What's unusual is that FOPPI asked me if I would be willing to be a part of the project and copied my boss. It's not normal for someone to ask my interest in being involved in a project; PHB makes that determination. So, now I have to decide how to respond to this message. Given the nature of the message, I suspect that PPI may have filled in FOPPI on my current status (or lack thereof) in the lab. Why do I suspect this? Well, FOPPI was a preliminary reader of the infamous manuscript for PPI - before I had to redo all the data analysis. It seems reasonable to me that PPI read the grant, saw my salary listed in the budget, and mentioned it.

So, how to deal with it? Options, as I see them:
1) My first instinct, which I promptly quashed due to failing the "Who's the asshole" test: respond with "PHB has asked me to find a new job, so I am not sure that I will be here to work on your grant." While this could be fun, it would tick of PHB. He was actually somewhat nice to me last week. I'm still not included in any meetings, but he was more civil than normal. (I think my vacation clued him in to the fact that no one else in the lab knows how to do much of what I do.)
2) Respond with, "Yes, I'd be happy to help you on this project." Pro: this is just a grant submission; there's no guarantee that it will be funded. Con: if I get a new job and leave in a month or so, this makes me the asshole, I think. Nothing like agreeing to be part of a grant and then saying, "Oh, by the way, I'm leaving. Good luck finding someone to replace me." Besides, I feel that I would be usurping PHB's authority. He decides lab projects, not me.
3) Respond with something along the lines of, "Thanks for your consideration, but I feel that PHB should make the final call on this issue. He is responsible for scheduling my time, and I do not know what he has planned for me to do." This approach is my current favorite since it puts the ball squarely in my boss' court. After all, it really should be his call.

Anyone have other ideas? Refinement for ideas above? All thoughts, suggestions, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

[Lavabe]

I have another tricky work situation to deal with and would appreciate some input. I received an e-mail message this afternoon from a collaborator who happens to be a friend of Pushy PI (we'll call the collaborator FOPPI for short). FOPPI is currently writing a grant and wants to include 10% of my salary. No problem. What's unusual is that FOPPI asked me if I would be willing to be a part of the project and copied my boss. It's not normal for someone to ask my interest in being involved in a project; PHB makes that determination. So, now I have to decide how to respond to this message. Given the nature of the message, I suspect that PPI may have filled in FOPPI on my current status (or lack thereof) in the lab. Why do I suspect this? Well, FOPPI was a preliminary reader of the infamous manuscript for PPI - before I had to redo all the data analysis. It seems reasonable to me that PPI read the grant, saw my salary listed in the budget, and mentioned it.

So, how to deal with it? Options, as I see them:
1) My first instinct, which I promptly quashed due to failing the "Who's the asshole" test: respond with "PHB has asked me to find a new job, so I am not sure that I will be here to work on your grant." While this could be fun, it would tick of PHB. He was actually somewhat nice to me last week. I'm still not included in any meetings, but he was more civil than normal. (I think my vacation clued him in to the fact that no one else in the lab knows how to do much of what I do.)
2) Respond with, "Yes, I'd be happy to help you on this project." Pro: this is just a grant submission; there's no guarantee that it will be funded. Con: if I get a new job and leave in a month or so, this makes me the asshole, I think. Nothing like agreeing to be part of a grant and then saying, "Oh, by the way, I'm leaving. Good luck finding someone to replace me." Besides, I feel that I would be usurping PHB's authority. He decides lab projects, not me.
3) Respond with something along the lines of, "Thanks for your consideration, but I feel that PHB should make the final call on this issue. He is responsible for scheduling my time, and I do not know what he has planned for me to do." This approach is my current favorite since it puts the ball squarely in my boss' court. After all, it really should be his call.

Anyone have other ideas? Refinement for ideas above? All thoughts, suggestions, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Rule out #1 and #2 for the reasons you have stated already.
At this point, I have to remind you that although the sudden developments with Galveston are very promising, nothing is sure. For example, you still haven't heard anything from that Boston company (or was it Canadian). You still work where you are.
I also don't like the #3 language of "I do not know what he has planned for me to do." That fails the asshole test, and it also suggests you have an inability to follow with what your boss has perhaps planned.

[DukieInKansas]

A version of 3 is my suggestion. I would word it along the lines of expressing interest in participating in the study to be funded by the grant but your participation would depend on the PHB's agreement to your inclusion as your first priority is his work assignments. I like that others are showing your boss that you are important to the workings of the lab.

[ArkieDukie]

I have another tricky work situation to deal with and would appreciate some input. I received an e-mail message this afternoon from a collaborator who happens to be a friend of Pushy PI (we'll call the collaborator FOPPI for short). FOPPI is currently writing a grant and wants to include 10% of my salary. No problem. What's unusual is that FOPPI asked me if I would be willing to be a part of the project and copied my boss. It's not normal for someone to ask my interest in being involved in a project; PHB makes that determination. So, now I have to decide how to respond to this message. Given the nature of the message, I suspect that PPI may have filled in FOPPI on my current status (or lack thereof) in the lab. Why do I suspect this? Well, FOPPI was a preliminary reader of the infamous manuscript for PPI - before I had to redo all the data analysis. It seems reasonable to me that PPI read the grant, saw my salary listed in the budget, and mentioned it.

So, how to deal with it? Options, as I see them:
1) My first instinct, which I promptly quashed due to failing the "Who's the asshole" test: respond with "PHB has asked me to find a new job, so I am not sure that I will be here to work on your grant." While this could be fun, it would tick of PHB. He was actually somewhat nice to me last week. I'm still not included in any meetings, but he was more civil than normal. (I think my vacation clued him in to the fact that no one else in the lab knows how to do much of what I do.)
2) Respond with, "Yes, I'd be happy to help you on this project." Pro: this is just a grant submission; there's no guarantee that it will be funded. Con: if I get a new job and leave in a month or so, this makes me the asshole, I think. Nothing like agreeing to be part of a grant and then saying, "Oh, by the way, I'm leaving. Good luck finding someone to replace me." Besides, I feel that I would be usurping PHB's authority. He decides lab projects, not me.
3) Respond with something along the lines of, "Thanks for your consideration, but I feel that PHB should make the final call on this issue. He is responsible for scheduling my time, and I do not know what he has planned for me to do." This approach is my current favorite since it puts the ball squarely in my boss' court. After all, it really should be his call.

Anyone have other ideas? Refinement for ideas above? All thoughts, suggestions, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Rule out #1 and #2 for the reasons you have stated already.
At this point, I have to remind you that although the sudden developments with Galveston are very promising, nothing is sure. For example, you still haven't heard anything from that Boston company (or was it Canadian). You still work where you are.
I also don't like the #3 language of "I do not know what he has planned for me to do." That fails the asshole test, and it also suggests you have an inability to follow with what your boss has perhaps planned.

Good point. Of course, since PHB doesn't tell me what he's thinking, I have no clue what he's planning. I could just stop with a simple, "It is up to PHB to determine what projects our lab works on and I don't want to usurp his authority" (or something along those lines). Who knows; maybe this will win brownie points with PHB.

The other company is in Boston. Should hear something from them soon, if it's going to happen. Other than that, you are correct: a bird in the hand is worth 3 in the bush. Good reason to keep the locals happy.

[TillyGalore]

Rather than reply, forward the email to PHB and ask if it's okay with him if you participate on the project. When you get his response, then you can respond to FOPPI.

I would go ahead and participate if possible, as we don't have a crystal ball we don't know know the future holds. Who knows, the could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship. ;)

[ArkieDukie]

A version of 3 is my suggestion. I would word it along the lines of expressing interest in participating in the study to be funded by the grant but your participation would depend on the PHB's agreement to your inclusion as your first priority is his work assignments. I like that others are showing your boss that you are important to the workings of the lab.

Ooh - nice wording, DinK! Thanks!

The skeptical (or paranoid) part of me thinks that FOPPI is trying to shake information out of me regarding my status in the lab. I could be wrong, though.

[ArkieDukie]

Rather than reply, forward the email to PHB and ask if it's okay with him if you participate on the project. When you get his response, then you can respond to FOPPI.

I would go ahead and participate if possible, as we don't have a crystal ball we don't know know the future holds. Who knows, the could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship. ;)

That's a great idea, Tilly, and probably even more PC than copying him on a response to FOPPI. I'll throw that in the mix as a possible response.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

AD, I just look forward to the day you can walk into PHB's office and tell him to FOandD. I'll leave all the wise PC stuff to our wonderful advisory staff here.

[bluebutton]

AD, I just look forward to the day you can walk into PHB's office and tell him to FOandD. I'll leave all the wise PC stuff to our wonderful advisory staff here.

I'll be double useless and just say, "Ditto".

Mad jobs vibes:

[windsor]

I would opt for #3, and love DinK's wording (nice to know I can be out of town for the weekend and the work goes on )

I would definitely make my availability known...and make PHB say 'NO' ...it will leave people wondering why.

[DukieInKansas]

I would opt for #3, and love DinK's wording (nice to know I can be out of town for the weekend and the work goes on )

I would definitely make my availability known...and make PHB say 'NO' ...it will leave people wondering why.

OOOh - I think I just got a Windsor seal of approval.

[ArkieDukie]

Here's a new one for the group. The ad for the UTMB-Galveston job has a salary range posted, and the high salary is significantly lower than what I'm making right now. The online application has a minimum accepted line. Should I put my current salary or the high salary from the ad? Should I say something to the person I've been chatting with about the job? It seems a bit presumptuous to talk salary before I apply for the job, so suggestions would be welcome.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Here's a new one for the group. The ad for the UTMB-Galveston job has a salary range posted, and the high salary is significantly lower than what I'm making right now. The online application has a minimum accepted line. Should I put my current salary or the high salary from the ad? Should I say something to the person I've been chatting with about the job? It seems a bit presumptuous to talk salary before I apply for the job, so suggestions would be welcome.

Are you willing to accept the job at their maximum offer, or is it less than you would accept? That's the first answer you need to come up with, then ask yourself if that is answer the same in six months if you are a) still in your current job (and still miserable) or b) unemployed? If the first answer is no, but you would like the job if they would pay more, they may or may not have the flexibility in their state pay system to offer more, but it doesn't hurt to ask - they can only say no (I don't think they will laugh in your face (but probably will behind your back...). If the job just doesn't pay enough, and they can't raise the ante to afford you, don't waste your time beyond the initial application and next interview where you ask for more money.

[Lavabe]

Here's a new one for the group. The ad for the UTMB-Galveston job has a salary range posted, and the high salary is significantly lower than what I'm making right now. The online application has a minimum accepted line. Should I put my current salary or the high salary from the ad? Should I say something to the person I've been chatting with about the job? It seems a bit presumptuous to talk salary before I apply for the job, so suggestions would be welcome.

Umm, considering the current tax structure in Texas (and cost of living) vs. St. Louis, that's not unexpected news.

Looks like you have to wrestle with the question: job satisfaction/mental health vs. salary. I took a 10% drop in overall salary from what I made in Atlanta, but the cost of living (taxes, real estate, day-to-day costs) and quality of life issues have made up for the absolute difference in salary. That was also a move from a private to a public university, a move that you would be making as well. In your case, the grant money that fuels salaries where you currently work may NOT be there in similar amounts where you might be working. Department and university budgets are in a whole 'nother playing field when dealing with regional public universities.
If you have any doubt, in principle, one could find out the salary of ANYONE working at a public university.
I think you have to decide on some things:
1) would they assist in moving?
2) what sort of benefits would you have?
3) what's the difference in housing?
Ultimately, your big question is: how low of a salary is too low to compensate for the fact that you would no longer have to deal with the crap contained on the dilemma thread? Can you live with their high end? This sounds WAY too familiar.

By the way... is the new position tenure-track teaching/research, or is it researcher (tt or other form)?

[CathyCA]

Here's a new one for the group. The ad for the UTMB-Galveston job has a salary range posted, and the high salary is significantly lower than what I'm making right now. The online application has a minimum accepted line. Should I put my current salary or the high salary from the ad? Should I say something to the person I've been chatting with about the job? It seems a bit presumptuous to talk salary before I apply for the job, so suggestions would be welcome.

You need to look at a cost of living calculator. What is the difference between the cost of living where you currently live and where you'd like to move? For instance, if you were earning $100,000 in San Jose, CA, you would only need to earn $63,141 to live comparably in Greenville, NC.

Here's the cost of living calculator that I use: http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/costofli ... iving.html

After you've compared the cost of living in your two cities, you may be able to better evaluate the salary offers in the various cities you're considering.

[ArkieDukie]

Here's a new one for the group. The ad for the UTMB-Galveston job has a salary range posted, and the high salary is significantly lower than what I'm making right now. The online application has a minimum accepted line. Should I put my current salary or the high salary from the ad? Should I say something to the person I've been chatting with about the job? It seems a bit presumptuous to talk salary before I apply for the job, so suggestions would be welcome.

You need to look at a cost of living calculator. What is the difference between the cost of living where you currently live and where you'd like to move? For instance, if you were earning $100,000 in San Jose, CA, you would only need to earn $63,141 to live comparably in Greenville, NC.

Here's the cost of living calculator that I use: http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/costofli ... iving.html

After you've compared the cost of living in your two cities, you may be able to better evaluate the salary offers in the various cities you're considering.

I've already looked at that. According to all the cost of living calculators, cost of living is pretty comparable. Taxes aren't taken into account in the cost of living calculators, and taxes are lower in Texas. With that being said, TX does have Rick Perry.

[bluebutton]

I've already looked at that. According to all the cost of living calculators, cost of living is pretty comparable. Taxes aren't taken into account in the cost of living calculators, and taxes are lower in Texas. With that being said, TX does have Rick Perry.

We moved to Austin 2 yrs ago and there's a cultural stigma that goes with TX, but on a day to day quality of life basis, Rick Perry doesn't figure in and it's hands down better here than it was in Los Angeles and the 15% pay cut we took to move here was entirely worth it.

Ozzie's questions seem worth working through re salary. Part of the "this move was awesome" for us is that my husband moved from commercial video games with months of crunch time under prima donna directors/producers to a "serious games" shop with 40 hr weeks and good management.

[shereec]

Another thing to consider is benefits. As a public employee, will you have a pension to look forward to? And how does that compare with your current job? My husband was a State employee for most of his career. Many of our friends went the higher salary, private industry route, but he retired at 50 and they are still dealing with the BS... He always says that the real payday for government employees is after you're through working.