Should we outlaw any and almost all PP type discussions

[rockymtn devil]

As perhaps the most likely to start and/or engage in political discussion at CT, I went with "I Don't Care", which I think sums up the nature of this board nicely. Too bad about the DBR PPB. I sure hope some of them do make it over here (although not for PP purposes), but there are others that I hope stat away (for PP purposes).

[Turk]

And you shouldn't play leapfrog with a unicorn.

You don't tug on Superman's cape.

You don't spit into the wind

Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
Don't crap in your lunchbox.
Don't get your honey where you get your money.

"Avoid the clap." - Jimmy Dugan

[wilson]

"Avoid the clap." - Jimmy Dugan

Outstanding.

[Turk]

Seriously, we shouldn't ban anything. That doesn't mean we should set up a separate PPB board either. Let it ride and see how it plays out.

[throatybeard]

@TNT -- Yes, Oec/Anabasis is/has been one of the major problems here there and everywhere. He's like Shammrog. He poisons almost any politics convo at BTD. It's tiresome. You can't even have a convo about something else without him turning it into politics.

@Tilly -- glad to see you're still speaking to me even though you've FaceBook de-friended me. Yes, I agree, a big problem at the PPB was how much/whether to moderate. The initial problem was (as always) there are so few mods and the traffic is high. Maybe 1/3 of the mods were even reading the PPB on the new software. (No part of Julian's obligations include an OTB, a PPB, or even a sports board; the overwhelming amount percentage of the traffic on the site is the content he posts). I was one who paid attention to the PPB. In fact, from maybe Feb07 to Nov08 I read just about every post on the PPB. It was pretty much me and Cavlaw. Sometimes Evans. Stray Gator now and then. I got fed up at a certain point and gave up on reading all posts. So anytime you have people trying hard to enforce the rules, but unable to do so fully, you're going to get complaints about selective enforcement. I don't know, think about speeding. Like that.

But the even bigger problem IMO at the PPB was the dynamic between "right" and "left." (Relatively speaking--as if there were actually any significant left in this country, globally speaking, which there isn't). Now, current demographics dictate that if you have a bunch of people with graduate/professional degrees, that audience is gonna skew liberal. That's just how it is recently. Look at the stats. The problem is that when you have a bunch of liberals, and a few conservatives in a minority, the sort of conservatives attracted to that environment are not going to be reasonable human beings with a desire to engage in good-faith debate. They're going to be people who just want to pick fights and fling poo on the wall, mostly. Shammrog is really the paradigm example of what was wrong with that board. So that's what we were confronted with. Like three liberal posters who couldn't play nice, like Beem or RThomas. But almost all our conservative posters (e.g., Mudge, DaveKay, Shammrog, BD80, BlueDawg, Anabasis/Oec, BDJ) couldn't--wouldn't--play nice because they were the sort of folks who enjoyed feeling like they were being discriminated against just by the mere presence of a bunch of liberals, and who wanted to get live with these liberals, every day. Fight-pickers. The whole dynamic was set for failure from the get-go.

I was the last mod defending the PPB. There has been talk about getting rid of it for at least a year. I was the guy saying to a few others, no, let's give it one more chance, let's shoot one more warning up top, the sports board is much messier, let's go slow. It really went even worse to shit this past four to six weeks, and on Monday, after a particularly egregious Shammrog display, I told the others I dropped my objections to dropping the PPB. About two days of discussion and then -jk talked to Julian and the site owners took it down today. The site is about Duke sports, not about Glenn Beck. I once enjoyed that board, but when the last guy defending it gives up on it, it's time for it to go.

[devildeac]

@TNT -- Yes, Oec/Anabasis is/has been one of the major problems here there and everywhere. He's like Shammrog. He poisons almost any politics convo at BTD. It's tiresome. You can't even have a convo about something else without him turning it into politics.

@Tilly -- glad to see you're still speaking to me even though you've FaceBook de-friended me. Yes, I agree, a big problem at the PPB was how much/whether to moderate. The initial problem was (as always) there are so few mods and the traffic is high. Maybe 1/3 of the mods were even reading the PPB on the new software. (No part of Julian's obligations include an OTB, a PPB, or even a sports board; the overwhelming amount percentage of the traffic on the site is the content he posts). I was one who paid attention to the PPB. In fact, from maybe Feb07 to Nov08 I read just about every post on the PPB. It was pretty much me and Cavlaw. Sometimes Evans. Stray Gator now and then. I got fed up at a certain point and gave up on reading all posts. So anytime you have people trying hard to enforce the rules, but unable to do so fully, you're going to get complaints about selective enforcement. I don't know, think about speeding. Like that.

But the even bigger problem IMO at the PPB was the dynamic between "right" and "left." (Relatively speaking--as if there were actually any significant left in this country, globally speaking, which there isn't). Now, current demographics dictate that if you have a bunch of people with graduate/professional degrees, that audience is gonna skew liberal. That's just how it is recently. Look at the stats. The problem is that when you have a bunch of liberals, and a few conservatives in a minority, the sort of conservatives attracted to that environment are not going to be reasonable human beings with a desire to engage in good-faith debate. They're going to be people who just want to pick fights and fling poo on the wall, mostly. Shammrog is really the paradigm example of what was wrong with that board. So that's what we were confronted with. Like three liberal posters who couldn't play nice, like Beem or RThomas. But almost all our conservative posters (e.g., Mudge, DaveKay, Shammrog, BD80, BlueDawg, Anabasis/Oec, BDJ) couldn't--wouldn't--play nice because they were the sort of folks who enjoyed feeling like they were being discriminated against just by the mere presence of a bunch of liberals, and who wanted to get live with these liberals, every day. Fight-pickers. The whole dynamic was set for failure from the get-go.

I was the last mod defending the PPB. There has been talk about getting rid of it for at least a year. I was the guy saying to a few others, no, let's give it one more chance, let's shoot one more warning up top, the sports board is much messier, let's go slow. It really went even worse to shit this past four to six weeks, and on Monday, after a particularly egregious Shammrog display, I told the others I dropped my objections to dropping the PPB. About two days of discussion and then -jk talked to Julian and the site owners took it down today. The site is about Duke sports, not about Glenn Beck. I once enjoyed that board, but when the last guy defending it gives up on it, it's time for it to go.

Thanks for sharing. Good/interesting/insightful stuff.

[Bostondevil]

@TNT -- Yes, Oec/Anabasis is/has been one of the major problems here there and everywhere. He's like Shammrog. He poisons almost any politics convo at BTD. It's tiresome. You can't even have a convo about something else without him turning it into politics.

I've noticed (see my previous post in this thread). I like BTD, I visit BTD, I even post there some but everything eventually turns political there so I'll never be as active over there as I am here. Which is a good thing, I do have a job and kids among other things. I wonder if Oec is my older brother, hmmmmm.

I realize that the first time I brought this point up I wasn't clear with my suggestion that CTN folks who really want to get into anything heavy, politically speaking, take it to BTD where it's probably already being discussed.

[wilson]

The problem is that when you have a bunch of liberals, and a few conservatives in a minority, the sort of conservatives attracted to that environment are not going to be reasonable human beings with a desire to engage in good-faith debate. They're going to be people who just want to pick fights and fling poo on the wall, mostly...almost all our conservative posters couldn't--wouldn't--play nice because they were the sort of folks who enjoyed feeling like they were being discriminated against just by the mere presence of a bunch of liberals, and who wanted to get live with these liberals, every day. Fight-pickers. The whole dynamic was set for failure from the get-go.

This is a very well-stated read of the PPB. Right in line with the impression I always got on the few, periodic occasions I dipped my toes in.

[windsor]

The problem is that when you have a bunch of liberals, and a few conservatives in a minority, the sort of conservatives attracted to that environment are not going to be reasonable human beings with a desire to engage in good-faith debate. They're going to be people who just want to pick fights and fling poo on the wall, mostly...almost all our conservative posters couldn't--wouldn't--play nice because they were the sort of folks who enjoyed feeling like they were being discriminated against just by the mere presence of a bunch of liberals, and who wanted to get live with these liberals, every day. Fight-pickers. The whole dynamic was set for failure from the get-go.

Very well said Throaty, it mirrors my own (limited) experience there. It is a shame the PPB couldn't have been a place for intelligent, lively, CIVIL debate. It would have been an interesting place. I often wondered how much the relative anonymity of the bulletin board type forum contributed to the 'poo flinging'. I wonder what some of the more acrimonious exchanges would have sounded like if they had occurred over a beer face to face.

[Bostondevil]

Is there anywhere in the country right now where intelligent, lively, civil political debates take place? If you know of such a place, do tell. I haven't heard any intelligent, lively, civil political debate in years.

[windsor]

Is there anywhere in the country right now where intelligent, lively, civil political debates take place? If you know of such a place, do tell. I haven't heard any intelligent, lively, civil political debate in years.

My front porch, when the neighbors wander over.

[Miles]

Thanks to everyone for their comments in this thread. This is one of the few threads that I've missed from the beginning, but taken the time to read through it completely. I voted yes, but I really wanted to vote "Yes, but no". I don't think we should ever preemptively censor anyone on this site. Yet I don't feel like this isn't the proper forum for PPB discussions. I'd prefer we don't adopt a similar format.

[windsor]

Thanks to everyone for their comments in this thread. This is one of the few threads that I've missed from the beginning, but taken the time to read through it completely. I voted yes, but I really wanted to vote "Yes, but no". I don't think we should ever preemptively censor anyone on this site. Yet I don't feel like this isn't the proper forum for PPB discussions. I'd prefer we don't adopt a similar format.

I think this is a topic that could be tabled for the moment. We are looking to solve a problem that frankly doesn't exist. I don't anticpate a mass influx of PPB junkies descending upon our little corner of cyberspace to engage in full contact poo hurling slander spewing diatribes. We have had the occassional 'PPB'esque discussions here and they have remained civil and respectful. I have no reason to believe that just because the PPB has had the plug pulled the general tone of CTN is going to change. I would much rather deal with any issues that might arise on a case by case, post by post basis. If a pattern develops or if issues become more frequent and the general tone of CTN begans to change then we have a problem. IF that happens, then declaring certain topics to be off limits might be appropriate. It would certainly be easier to frame a solution once there actually is a problem to solve.

[wilson]

Is there anywhere in the country right now where intelligent, lively, civil political debates take place? If you know of such a place, do tell. I haven't heard any intelligent, lively, civil political debate in years.

I've had some very rarely. Even the best political discussions I've been a part of, though, have gotten heated at some point.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Is there anywhere in the country right now where intelligent, lively, civil political debates take place? If you know of such a place, do tell. I haven't heard any intelligent, lively, civil political debate in years.

I've had some very rarely. Even the best political discussions I've been a part of, though, have gotten heated at some point.

I flat out tell some folks who I visit or visit me "don't talk politics", because I want our time together to be enjoyable. This includes close family members. TNTdevil told me a good story at the first tailgate about a similar situation. Ask him about it while your waiting for kickoff one day.

[bjornolf]

I have a good friend whose philosophy is that you shouldn't make a decision until you have to.
Love, Ima

And you shouldn't play leapfrog with a unicorn.

Can I steal that as my new motto in life? Never play leapfrog with a unicorn. Very sound advice. That's right up there with "Never wipe your ass with a porcupine."

[colchar]

That's right up there with "Never wipe your ass with a porcupine."

But once again, it all depends on what you want to get from the experience...

[Miles]

That's right up there with "Never wipe your ass with a porcupine."

But once again, it all depends on what you want to get from the experience...

Wouldn't that also depend on the direction you're wiping?

[colchar]

But once again, it all depends on what you want to get from the experience...

Wouldn't that also depend on the direction you're wiping?

A valid point.

[Lavabe]

Here on CTN, we can all be civil by using the large number of smilies that we have. I really think the smilies deflect a large amount of the heated exchanges that would otherwise surface.