AC help needed

[bluebutton]

Uh so first time homeowner, total house n00b

It's 103 out and our AC is dead. The thing outside the house, the big box that spits water out a hose (I don't know what it's called) makes intermittent buzzing noises. The fan towards the top still spins, but we're not getting any cold air. The thing in our garage where we change the air filter -- that seems ok in so far as we can tell.

When I call an AC guy what do I tell him and what should I expect when they come out?

As I said, we're new to all of this, so no advice is too dumb.

[captmojo]

Are you getting any air flow from out of the vents?

[captmojo]

Is the before mentioned water coming out of the A/C unit?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

The thing outside is generically called the compressor, which is what makes the cold (or hot in winter if it is a heat pump). Also out there are a condenser and heat exchanger, plus various other parts. It spits water out the drain hose because water is condensed out of the warm outside air as it passes through the heat exchanger. The inside (or under or attic based) part is called the air handler because it is where the fan that pushes the hot or cooled air through your house. There is also a heat exchanger in the air handler, heat strips for extreme winter temps, and some other stuff. Do a Google search if you want to learn more about the actual workings, etc.

How old is the unit? Do you have any sort of home owners warranty if you recently bought the house? If not, do you have $2000 to $5000 to fix or replace the unit? Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Shop around for repair people, ask neighbors who they use, and check web sites of your local tv stations to see if they have a recommended list of service companies they have found to be reliable and honest (or vice versa).

[Miles]

Do I understand that there is only one air intake, and that is in the garage?
Have you double-checked the filters to make sure they're clean?

[bluebutton]

Let's see in reverse order

As far as we can tell, the only place there is a filter to change is in the garage. And we've been changing that monthly.

We do have a home warranty which sounds like it's about to come in really handy. Although, my husband says that they have some warning on their website that regulations are getting phased in and new ACs are more expensive and we may have to pay the difference. But difference has got to be better than paying for the whole thing, if it comes to that. Using the home warranty people, I don't know if we get to choose who services our request. Should we be concerned if we can't pick our own service folk (not that we currently have any idea who'd do a good job, but we do have great neighbors who could probably give us some pointers.)

I do think the water is coming out the drain hose. Incidentally, it's turning that side of the yard into a mosquito-breeding swamp. Any advice on how to mitigate that?

And finally, we switched off the AC and just have the fan on. It does seem to be pushing some air around anemically.

THANKS GUYS!!! Ya'll rock.

[YmoBeThere]

Somewhere will be as Ozzie suggested the air handler. That's the fan unit. If you are only getting anemic amounts of air through that you will want to make sure that the heat exchanger inside it is not frozen. I speak from personal experience. The garage seems a very odd place for an air intake, unless the garage is fully insulated including the door. It's also generally dirtier in the garage which is another reason why you wouldn't want the intake there. I would suggest that there might be another intake elsewhere, but I've been wrong before.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

After the unit has been turned off for a few hours, try turning it back on. One of you be standing next to it while the other one flips the switch (on the thermostat). It may just start working again! It's possible that it has "frozen up". Literally ice forms on part of the unit. When it melts, it works!

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Let's see in reverse order

As far as we can tell, the only place there is a filter to change is in the garage. And we've been changing that monthly.

We do have a home warranty which sounds like it's about to come in really handy. Although, my husband says that they have some warning on their website that regulations are getting phased in and new ACs are more expensive and we may have to pay the difference. But difference has got to be better than paying for the whole thing, if it comes to that. Using the home warranty people, I don't know if we get to choose who services our request. Should we be concerned if we can't pick our own service folk (not that we currently have any idea who'd do a good job, but we do have great neighbors who could probably give us some pointers.)

I do think the water is coming out the drain hose. Incidentally, it's turning that side of the yard into a mosquito-breeding swamp. Any advice on how to mitigate that?

And finally, we switched off the AC and just have the fan on. It does seem to be pushing some air around anemically.

THANKS GUYS!!! Ya'll rock.

My experience with home warranties provided at the time of purchase is that the warranty company has a list of contractors for various services. If you have a choice of repair companies, it will be from the list provided by your warranty company ...... if you want your warranty company to pay for any/all of the repair as specified in the policy, choose a repair company from their list. It's like health insurance, go outside the network and you pay.

[captmojo]

If the measures indicated above have restored working order, and the problem was an evaporator freeze-up, then you either need to change filters more often or the better solution would be to have the unit's return air flow re-routed. With a dirty filter and an extremely hot & humid day, it could very well happen again. Also check the the condenser coil is clear for the passage of air to flow through. The condenser will be the car radiator-looking coil around the outside of the outdoor unit.

[CathyCA]

Let's see in reverse order

As far as we can tell, the only place there is a filter to change is in the garage. And we've been changing that monthly.

We do have a home warranty which sounds like it's about to come in really handy. Although, my husband says that they have some warning on their website that regulations are getting phased in and new ACs are more expensive and we may have to pay the difference. But difference has got to be better than paying for the whole thing, if it comes to that. Using the home warranty people, I don't know if we get to choose who services our request. Should we be concerned if we can't pick our own service folk (not that we currently have any idea who'd do a good job, but we do have great neighbors who could probably give us some pointers.)

I do think the water is coming out the drain hose. Incidentally, it's turning that side of the yard into a mosquito-breeding swamp. Any advice on how to mitigate that?

And finally, we switched off the AC and just have the fan on. It does seem to be pushing some air around anemically.

THANKS GUYS!!! Ya'll rock.

With a home warranty, you don't get to pick your own contractor. Welcome to home warranty hell!

That being said, INSIST that your contractor get it right, even if that involves multiple service calls. Good luck!

[bluebutton]

We ended up spending the night at friends' place and I'm pretty glad. We had put the baby to bed earlier with only a diaper on and she was sweating buckets.

After the unit has been turned off for a few hours, try turning it back on. One of you be standing next to it while the other one flips the switch (on the thermostat). It may just start working again! It's possible that it has "frozen up". Literally ice forms on part of the unit. When it melts, it works!

Okie doke. We'll try this when my husband gets back from work. He did try turning everything back on this morning before he went to work and said the compressor was still making that buzzing sound.

About the air intake, my husband says that that is actually near our stairwell indoors. We had all the vents and intakes cleaned out before we moved in a couple months ago. The compressor unit appears to be from 2000, so 10 years old. How long do these things usually last (in a hot place like Texas)?

I got in touch with the repair people selected by the home warranty. They were going to schedule us for Wed PM or Thurs AM, but I old them we had a baby and it was over 100 degrees. This magically opened a Tues AM slot. So we'll see what happens tomorrow.

Thanks again everyone!

[lawgrad91]

Good luck! I'm glad you had a place to stay that was cool, and hopefully the AC people will come out tomorrow morning like they're supposed to.

[DukeUsul]

About the air intake, my husband says that that is actually near our stairwell indoors. We had all the vents and intakes cleaned out before we moved in a couple months ago. The compressor unit appears to be from 2000, so 10 years old. How long do these things usually last (in a hot place like Texas)?

About 10 years.

Good luck. We had something similar happen to ours at our old house before we moved. It was 10 years old and the old thing just went. Cost about $5k to replace. Thank goodness you have a warranty!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

About the air intake, my husband says that that is actually near our stairwell indoors. We had all the vents and intakes cleaned out before we moved in a couple months ago. The compressor unit appears to be from 2000, so 10 years old. How long do these things usually last (in a hot place like Texas)?

About 10 years.

Good luck. We had something similar happen to ours at our old house before we moved. It was 10 years old and the old thing just went. Cost about $5k to replace. Thank goodness you have a warranty!

I was also going to answer ~10 years when I saw your question. For $5K, you should be able to replace the entire outside unit depending on size and brand, and of course, contractor.

Here are a couple of pictures of my outside unit, which has a gas heater on the right and an AC unit on the left. It is 15+ years old. I "just" had to have the blower motor replaced ($425) and then he cleaned the "radiator fins" ($200) - these allow outside air to enter the heat exchanger to carry away the heat taken out of your house by the heat exchanger and it's what's thrown up into the air by the big fan you said was still running.

Chances are you need a new compressor. With a 10 year old unit, you'll have to push hard to get the warranty company to replace everything, but it will be cheaper for them (and you) in the long run.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

The compressor is the thing in the middle.

The "thing" by your stairwell is the air return. Your indoor air is sucked in by the blower fan to move it over the heat exchanger and cool it (and dehumidify it) and then it is blown back into your house by the fan. It's almost a closed loop circuit, except for air that leaks out your windows, doors and other openings.

[bjornolf]

I was gonna guess it had frozen too. That would explain all the water. If it freezes and then melts, the water dumps out into the yard. I think that indicates something to do with the coolant, if you have a freon AC, either too much or too little. It also happens if the outside temperature gets lower than the internal temperature, usually at night. You shouldn't have THAT much water come out. Freezing up over and over isn't good for it, if that's what's happening. You need a certified repairman either way. My father-in-law and my AC repair guy has taught me how to do a lot of the simple things, but I don't know the names for everything.

Make sure your AC returns (big vent openings, usually on walls or ceilings) are clear of obstructions. If your AC can't pull in enough air, it'll mess with it. Even having stuff or furniture within several feet of one of them in front of it will mess with it. At least that's what my AC guy told me.

[bluebutton]

Okay -- sanity check? The following is what we were told. Does it sound about right?

The repair guys came out today -- father and son team.
My husband gave them the report and they thought it sounded like the capacitor in the condenser unit outside. They used what looked like a voltmeter to me checking one side at ~220 and the other side at zip. So they replace the capacitor and everything started up. Woohoo!

Then they attached some gauges to check the pressure in the system (I think). They got a reading of just under 50 and one of 200. I don't know the units, but they said they were expecting ~75 and 250. So they checked for a leak. When they opened up the closet in the closet in the garage where the rest of the HVAC system was, there was a lot of cold air blowing out. It was great to feel cold air, too bad it was cooling our garage. Turns out there were giant gaps in the duct work. So boo on that. But they checked for freon leaks and found one in the evaporator coil.

The guy says that he's doesn't think he'll be able to find a replacement coil because he doesn't think they are being made any more. That part of the system is from 1996. If he can't find a replacement coil, he said the whole thing will have to be replaced. He seemed to suggest that we should have everything replaced, both the outside and inside unit.

Anyways, he topped us up with 5lbs of freon and the house is cool again, but he said this is just a stop gap measure until the home warranty people get their paper work together and we decide what we want done.

The guys seemed pretty straight up with us, but as I mentioned before, we're totally new to all this. Any thoughts or recommendations? We have money socked away to replace the system, and we're willing to if it will save us headaches down the road, but we're not going to write that check if we don't have to.

Thanks!

[CathyCA]

Okay -- sanity check? The following is what we were told. Does it sound about right?

The repair guys came out today -- father and son team.
My husband gave them the report and they thought it sounded like the capacitor in the condenser unit outside. They used what looked like a voltmeter to me checking one side at ~220 and the other side at zip. So they replace the capacitor and everything started up. Woohoo!

Then they attached some gauges to check the pressure in the system (I think). They got a reading of just under 50 and one of 200. I don't know the units, but they said they were expecting ~75 and 250. So they checked for a leak. When they opened up the closet in the closet in the garage where the rest of the HVAC system was, there was a lot of cold air blowing out. It was great to feel cold air, too bad it was cooling our garage. Turns out there were giant gaps in the duct work. So boo on that. But they checked for freon leaks and found one in the evaporator coil.

The guy says that he's doesn't think he'll be able to find a replacement coil because he doesn't think they are being made any more. That part of the system is from 1996. If he can't find a replacement coil, he said the whole thing will have to be replaced. He seemed to suggest that we should have everything replaced, both the outside and inside unit.

Anyways, he topped us up with 5lbs of freon and the house is cool again, but he said this is just a stop gap measure until the home warranty people get their paper work together and we decide what we want done.

The guys seemed pretty straight up with us, but as I mentioned before, we're totally new to all this. Any thoughts or recommendations? We have money socked away to replace the system, and we're willing to if it will save us headaches down the road, but we're not going to write that check if we don't have to.

Thanks!

You must INSIST that the repair guys recommend to your home warranty company that the ENTIRE system needs to be replaced. The home warranty company generally goes along with the recommendation of the contractor. Do not agree to pay the contractor outside of the home warranty. This is the very reason that you bought the home warranty.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Okay -- sanity check? The following is what we were told. Does it sound about right?

The repair guys came out today -- father and son team.
My husband gave them the report and they thought it sounded like the capacitor in the condenser unit outside. They used what looked like a voltmeter to me checking one side at ~220 and the other side at zip. So they replace the capacitor and everything started up. Woohoo!

Then they attached some gauges to check the pressure in the system (I think). They got a reading of just under 50 and one of 200. I don't know the units, but they said they were expecting ~75 and 250. So they checked for a leak. When they opened up the closet in the closet in the garage where the rest of the HVAC system was, there was a lot of cold air blowing out. It was great to feel cold air, too bad it was cooling our garage. Turns out there were giant gaps in the duct work. So boo on that. But they checked for freon leaks and found one in the evaporator coil.

The guy says that he's doesn't think he'll be able to find a replacement coil because he doesn't think they are being made any more. That part of the system is from 1996. If he can't find a replacement coil, he said the whole thing will have to be replaced. He seemed to suggest that we should have everything replaced, both the outside and inside unit.

Anyways, he topped us up with 5lbs of freon and the house is cool again, but he said this is just a stop gap measure until the home warranty people get their paper work together and we decide what we want done.

The guys seemed pretty straight up with us, but as I mentioned before, we're totally new to all this. Any thoughts or recommendations? We have money socked away to replace the system, and we're willing to if it will save us headaches down the road, but we're not going to write that check if we don't have to.

Thanks!

You must INSIST that the repair guys recommend to your home warranty company that the ENTIRE system needs to be replaced. The home warranty company generally goes along with the recommendation of the contractor. Do not agree to pay the contractor outside of the home warranty. This is the very reason that you bought the home warranty.

Yes, it all sounds very reasonable (the diagnosis and the recommendation). I had hoped that all my blower motor had needed replacing was the capacitor, but it didn't have one. The pressure readings are also correct. And definitely listen to what Cathy says. Make sure they replace the duct work too (if the warranty folks will cover it because it's all torn up) because that probably isn't up to current code requirements for size and insulation requirements. And get the highest SEER rating that the warranty folks will approve. To qualify for the current tax credit it needs to be in the 14 to 15 range, but if they'll spring for the 17(+) unit, you'll be money ahead on your power bill. What brands of equipment does the contractor sell?