MLB: Blown call

[DukeUsul]

Two problems with some of these proposals first, lasers are invisible until they reflect off something. So you'll need to have a layer of fog at turf level in order to see them. Second GPS is only accurate down to the meter level so its resolution just won't be good enough.

The observation about the curvature of the field is a good one.

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[Miles]

Two problems with some of these proposals first, lasers are invisible until they reflect off something. So you'll need to have a layer of fog at turf level in order to see them. Second GPS is only accurate down to the meter level so its resolution just won't be good enough.

The observation about the curvature of the field is a good one.

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Given the performance of referees, I think a meter is within the tolerance of accuracy we need.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Two problems with some of these proposals first, lasers are invisible until they reflect off something. So you'll need to have a layer of fog at turf level in order to see them. Second GPS is only accurate down to the meter level so its resolution just won't be good enough.

The observation about the curvature of the field is a good one.

Sent from my Droid Incredible using Tapatalk.

Given the performance of referees, I think a meter is within the tolerance of accuracy we need.

The curvature I hadn't thought about, but visibility I had. The refs sprinkle something as simple as talcum powder near the tip of the ball and everyone can see the laser line.

[Lavabe]

Two problems with some of these proposals first, lasers are invisible until they reflect off something. So you'll need to have a layer of fog at turf level in order to see them. Second GPS is only accurate down to the meter level so its resolution just won't be good enough.

The observation about the curvature of the field is a good one.

Sent from my Droid Incredible using Tapatalk.

Are you going to trust the accuracy of the GPS from inside an indoor stadium?

[colchar]

Are you going to trust the accuracy of the GPS from inside an indoor stadium?

Couldn't they get it to work indoors?

[bjornolf]

Two problems with some of these proposals first, lasers are invisible until they reflect off something. So you'll need to have a layer of fog at turf level in order to see them. Second GPS is only accurate down to the meter level so its resolution just won't be good enough.

The observation about the curvature of the field is a good one.

Sent from my Droid Incredible using Tapatalk.

Paint the ball with UV reflective paint and use a UV sensor above the field?

[bjornolf]

So like technically, Martin Prado could hit a ball into the stands, by home plate, where it careens off EJam's noggin, bounces where the batter on deck is practice-swinging, then somehow miraculously lands onto the playing field, where it just sits there. THAT'S a fair ball?

Or in another situation, let's say the Yankees' A-Rod pops the ball up in foul territory behind the plate, and the Orioles' catcher misses the ball, the ball bounces just behind the plate with a little spin on it, and then makes it back onto the playing field just in front of home plate. THAT'S a fair ball?

This sounds hokey.

No to the first one, yes to the second. Once a ball hits something, or someone, in foul territory, it's foul. But if ARod's popup hits foul and spins into fair territory where it either stops or is touched, it's a fair ball and a base hit, possibly a double, triple or even a home run, however far he hustles around and reaches safely.

From MLB's website:

A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that is on or over fair territory when bounding to the outfield past first or third base, or that touches first, second or third base, or that first falls on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base, or that, while on or over fair territory touches the person of an umpire or player, or that, while over fair territory, passes out of the playing field in flight.
A fair fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the fielder is on fair or foul territory at the time he touches the ball.
Rule 2.00 (Fair Ball) Comment: If a fly ball lands in the infield between home and first base, or home and third base, and then bounces to foul territory without touching a player or umpire and before passing first or third base, it is a foul ball; or if the ball settles on foul territory or is touched by a player on foul territory, it is a foul ball. If a fly ball lands on or beyond first or third base and then bounces to foul territory, it is a fair hit.
Clubs, increasingly, are erecting tall foul poles at the fence line with a wire netting extending along the side of the pole on fair territory above the fence to enable the umpires more accurately to judge fair and foul balls.

FAIR TERRITORY is that part of the playing field within, and including the first base and third base lines, from home base to the bottom of the playing field fence and perpendicularly upwards. All foul lines are in fair territory.

A FOUL BALL is a batted ball that settles on foul territory between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory, or that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base, or that, while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, or any object foreign to the natural ground.
A foul fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the infielder is on foul or fair territory at the time he touches the ball.
Rule 2.00 (Foul Ball) Comment: A batted ball not touched by a fielder, which hits the pitcher’s rubber and rebounds into foul territory, between home and first, or between home and third base is a foul ball.

FOUL TERRITORY is that part of the playing field outside the first and third base lines extended to the fence and perpendicularly upwards.

A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher’s hands and is legally caught. It is not a foul tip unless caught and any foul tip that is caught is a strike, and the ball is in play. It is not a catch if it is a rebound, unless the ball has first touched the catcher’s glove or hand.

The funny thing is that if you read the rule it REALLY only matters where it is when it CROSSES the bag as long as it has already bounced, even if it's in the air. The ump was arguing that he saw it as foul when it went, in the air, over the bag, then somehow came back fair (I don't think that happened, as it would bend the laws of physics, but that's what he claims he saw). If it bounces before the base, it only matters what it does OVER the base. If it first bounces AFTER the base, it matters where it lands.

Also, if you read the part in bold, it appears that fly balls have different rules than grounders. It seems, from the wording, that a fly ball that bounces fair and then goes foul is foul. That's kind of odd to me. Maybe it's just badly worded.

I think the most interesting part of the rule is that a batted ball that hits the pitcher's rubber and flies into foul territory is a foul ball. How crazy is that?

[Lavabe]

Wow... thanks bjornolf!

So, given Rule 2.0, since the ball clearly lands foul on the first bounce after it was hit (32 second mark of the original clip), the call was NOT blown.

[bjornolf]

Wow... thanks bjornolf!

So, given Rule 2.0, since the ball clearly lands foul on the first bounce after it was hit (32 second mark of the original clip), the call was NOT blown.

No, strangely, with a grounder, the ball CAN go foul and then come back fair as long as it's not touched in foul territory. This is from the baseball trivia website:

I'm sure you've seen plays of balls rolling down one of the lines, as soon as the balls rolls foul, the fielder touches it making it a foul ball. If the ball rolled back into fair territory (before reaching first or third base) it would again potentially be a fair ball (if it was touched by the fielder while the ball was in fair territory).

So regardless of if the ball starts out by hitting off of home plate, or the fair portion of the batter's box, or the foul portion of the batter's box - it just doesn't matter! What matters is where it ends up when it is either touched by a fielder or goes past first or third base.

The only gray area is whether or not the batted ball hits the batter in foul territory. If so, it's a foul ball. If a batted ball hits the batter when he's in fair territory the batter is out.


And does the ball really land foul on that play at the :32 second mark? When I watched it in super slo-mo on TiVo, it appeared that chalk kicked up. I think it just looked foul, as the camera angle isn't RIGHT down the line. I REALLY wish they had camera angles RIGHT down the line, as the angles most ballparks have are just awful for this kind of thing. Same thing happens in football a lot too. The darn angle REALLY throws you off. I just watched it again on the replay in this thread. If you watch VERY closely, white chalk flies up. It's just the edge of the ball, but it DOES hit the line, so even if it WAS foul if it hit foul first, it's still fair in this particular instance.

[Lavabe]

OK... so basically, like Who Wants to Be A MIllionaire, I'll rely on my audience lifeline to know if it's fair.

[Lavabe]

Today's ESPN's Outside the Lines did a 2-week-long study of Major League Baseball games, and analyzed with video replay 250 close calls. 20% of the calls were blown.

That's a big percentage!

[bjornolf]

Today's ESPN's Outside the Lines did a 2-week-long study of Major League Baseball games, and analyzed with video replay 250 close calls. 20% of the calls were blown.

That's a big percentage!

Only slightly smaller than the percentage of obvious calls blown by ACC basketball refs.

[devildeac]

Today's ESPN's Outside the Lines did a 2-week-long study of Major League Baseball games, and analyzed with video replay 250 close calls. 20% of the calls were blown.

That's a big percentage!

Only slightly smaller than the percentage of obvious calls blown by ACC basketball refs.

Preachin' to the choir ;).

[Johnboy]

Today's ESPN's Outside the Lines did a 2-week-long study of Major League Baseball games, and analyzed with video replay 250 close calls. 20% of the calls were blown.

That's a big percentage!

Well - "close call" is in the eye of the beholder.