CTN's "S" List

[colchar]

It was also the night we took this...



Read between the lines.

What a motley looking crew ;)

[colchar]

You're free to opine that rap is a fucking abomination but you and bunchabombs cannot argue that rap is not music. Simply put, rap is music and any argument against doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell. If you think it does, then you've quite sadly missed the value and purpose of music.

While it is technically music (an art form that uses sound as a medium) that isn't really relevant for this discussion. Me smashing household items together or hitting my car with a sledge hammer would be considered music by the technical definition but that wouldn't make it either good or worth listening to. Same goes for rap - it is neither good nor worth listening to.

[Miles]

You're free to opine that rap is a fucking abomination but you and bunchabombs cannot argue that rap is not music. Simply put, rap is music and any argument against doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell. If you think it does, then you've quite sadly missed the value and purpose of music.

While it is technically music (an art form that uses sound as a medium) that isn't really relevant for this discussion. Me smashing household items together or hitting my car with a sledge hammer would be considered music by the technical definition but that wouldn't make it either good or worth listening to. Same goes for rap - it is neither good nor worth listening to. It is, as I said, an abomination which has had, I would argue, an adverse affect on society.

The technical definition of music is definitely relevant, especially if you're going to be so bold as to dismiss a genre that has firmly entrenched itself over the past 30-40 years. You smashing items together and banging shit with a sledge hammer could be considered music if it were your intent to create music, but we know it's not.

Rap having an adverse affect on society is equally or more laughable than the idea of you claiming rap isn't music.

[colchar]

The technical definition of music is definitely relevant, especially if you're going to be so bold as to dismiss a genre that has firmly entrenched itself over the past 30-40 years. You smashing items together and banging shit with a sledge hammer could be considered music if it were your intent to create music, but we know it's not.

I should have been more clear. When I mentioned banging stuff together or hitting my car with a sledge hammer I was referring to doing so with the intent of creating music. Just because I intended to create music by doing those things wouldn't make it good or worthwhile. I feel the same way about rap.

Rap having an adverse affect on society is equally or more laughable than the idea of you claiming rap isn't music.

I edited my post to remove the comment about rap having an adverse affect on society as I had reconsidered and thought that it might be too argumentative but since you responded before I did that, I'll respond.

The idea that rap has had an adverse affect on society is far from laughable.

Rap is ridiculously misogynistic and promotes a view of women as objects, bitches, and hoes that has no place in our society. Do other genres portray women in a less than positive light? Of course some do - but none of them do it to the same degree as rap music. Portraying women as sex objects is one thing (not necessarily a good one) but portraying them as worthless bitches and hoes is another thing altogether and that is not something that our society should stand for. If I were to walk around spouting attitudes like that I would (quite rightly in my view) be shouted down by anyone with an ounce of common sense. But if a rap artist does it they get a free pass? Gimme a break. Those attitudes are picked up by young people who then assimilate them and form a view of women that is, in my mind, both damaging and disgusting. And to make matters worse, it is not only boys who assimilate those attitudes - girls do too and what can that possibly do to their sense of self and their sense of women's value to society? Certainly nothing good. And how would you feel about any little girls in your family listening to something that repeatedly described them/girls/women as nothing more than worthless hoes and bitches?

In addition to being misogynistic garbage rap, to a large degree, promotes a gangster lifestyle that youngsters then try to emulate. A gangster lifestyle is nothing to be proud of nor is it something that should be held up as something to strive for (being a worthless drug dealing pimp is something good?!?) yet too many kids listen to this music and idolize the so-called artists and then attempt to pursue the lifestyle that they are singing about. Kids should definitely not be striving to become gangsters nor should their only goal be to become a rap artist because too few people make it and when they fail these kids are left with no other goals. If they were well balanced and trying to become a rapper was only one of their goals (along with succeeding in school, or at sports, or at art, or whatever) then it wouldn't be so bad but too many of these kids have becoming a rapper as their only ambition. The people I know who are into other genres of music (whether as musicians, singers, producers, promoters, or whatever) all at least have other goals and interests in case they don't make it in music. But how many little wannabe rappers do you know who have parallel goals as a backup plan? Damned few I'd bet. North American society would be a much better place without these stupid gangs and without kids trying to emulate people who are, in fact, nothing but scum. Rap gives too many kids the idea that they can/should strive for a lifestyle like that or that their only goal in life should be to become a rapper. Talk about having low expectations!

Another issue is the stupid attitudes promoted in the music and then held by many who are involved in that subculture who believe that carrying a gun somehow makes them more of a man and who then use those guns with little or no provocation. Do other people misuse guns? Of course they do. But I would argue that the vast majority of those who use guns for the dumbest of reasons (he looked at me wrong, he disrespected me, etc.) listen to rap and have picked up their ridiculously fucking stupid ideas of what it means to be a man or to be tough from that 'musical' genre. I could also discuss the ridiculousness of idiots shooting each other, or other people, because of some bullshit dispute over which is better - east coast or west coast rap (or one rap artist being better than another rap artist). When was the last time you heard of a Shania Twain fan shooting a Reba McEntire fan over which artist was better? How many times have you heard of rap fans doing this? Seriously, gimme a fucking break you mental midgets and get a fucking life already.

I can think of no other musical genre that promotes the ideas that rap music does and therefore cannot think of any other musical genre that has had as adverse an affect on our society as rap has - and I doubt anyone else could name one either. I despise censorship but some of the crap said in rap songs has made me give that position some more thought. I eventually decided that no matter how bad it is, I would never advocate that rap be censored but I do wish it had never been created and I will always argue that it is little more than crap that has had an adverse affect on our society. To argue otherwise is, in my mind, little more than an attempt to rationalize something that cannot be defended intellectually (hell, Chris Rock has a whole routine about how hard it is to defend rap intellectually).

BTW, I do not want to get into a PBB style discussion here (which is why I rethought things and removed my 'adverse affect on society' comment from my original post) as we have successfully avoided this kind of thing since we created this community. If you'd like to keep debating this I'm fine with that but can I suggest that maybe we do so via PMs rather than out in the open for all to see?

[Miles]

The technical definition of music is definitely relevant, especially if you're going to be so bold as to dismiss a genre that has firmly entrenched itself over the past 30-40 years. You smashing items together and banging shit with a sledge hammer could be considered music if it were your intent to create music, but we know it's not.

I should have been more clear. When I mentioned banging stuff together or hitting my car with a sledge hammer I was referring to doing so with the intent of creating music. Just because I intended to create music by doing those things wouldn't make it good or worthwhile. I feel the same way about rap.

Rap having an adverse affect on society is equally or more laughable than the idea of you claiming rap isn't music.

I edited my post to remove the comment about rap having an adverse affect on society as I had reconsidered and thought that it might be too argumentative but since you responded before I did that, I'll respond.

The idea that rap has had an adverse affect on society is far from laughable.

Rap is ridiculously misogynistic and promotes a view of women as objects, bitches, and hoes that has no place in our society. Do other genres portray women in a less than positive light? Of course some do - but none of them do it to the same degree as rap music. Portraying women as sex objects is one thing (not necessarily a good one) but portraying them as worthless bitches and hoes is another thing altogether and that is not something that our society should stand for. If I were to walk around spouting attitudes like that I would (quite rightly in my view) be shouted down by anyone with an ounce of common sense. But if a rap artist does it they get a free pass? Gimme a break. Those attitudes are picked up by young people who then assimilate them and form a view of women that is, in my mind, both damaging and disgusting. And to make matters worse, it is not only boys who assimilate those attitudes - girls do too and what can that possibly do to their sense of self and their sense of women's value to society? Certainly nothing good. And how would you feel about any little girls in your family listening to something that repeatedly described them/girls/women as nothing more than worthless hoes and bitches?

In addition to being misogynistic garbage rap, to a large degree, promotes a gangster lifestyle that youngsters then try to emulate. A gangster lifestyle is nothing to be proud of nor is it something that should be held up as something to strive for (being a worthless drug dealing pimp is something good?!?) yet too many kids listen to this music and idolize the so-called artists and then attempt to pursue the lifestyle that they are singing about. Kids should definitely not be striving to become gangsters nor should their only goal be to become a rap artist because too few people make it and when they fail these kids are left with no other goals. If they were well balanced and trying to become a rapper was only one of their goals (along with succeeding in school, or at sports, or at art, or whatever) then it wouldn't be so bad but too many of these kids have becoming a rapper as their only ambition. The people I know who are into other genres of music (whether as musicians, singers, producers, promoters, or whatever) all at least have other goals and interests in case they don't make it in music. But how many little wannabe rappers do you know who have parallel goals as a backup plan? Damned few I'd bet. North American society would be a much better place without these stupid gangs and without kids trying to emulate people who are, in fact, nothing but scum. Rap gives too many kids the idea that they can/should strive for a lifestyle like that or that their only goal in life should be to become a rapper. Talk about having low expectations!

Another issue is the stupid attitudes promoted in the music and then held by many who are involved in that subculture who believe that carrying a gun somehow makes them more of a man and who then use those guns with little or no provocation. Do other people misuse guns? Of course they do. But I would argue that the vast majority of those who use guns for the dumbest of reasons (he looked at me wrong, he disrespected me, etc.) listen to rap and have picked up their ridiculously fucking stupid ideas of what it means to be a man or to be tough from that 'musical' genre. I could also discuss the ridiculousness of idiots shooting each other, or other people, because of some bullshit dispute over which is better - east coast or west coast rap (or one rap artist being better than another rap artist). When was the last time you heard of a Shania Twain fan shooting a Reba McEntire fan over which artist was better? How many times have you heard of rap fans doing this? Seriously, gimme a fucking break you mental midgets and get a fucking life already.

I can think of no other musical genre that promotes the ideas that rap music does and therefore cannot think of any other musical genre that has had as adverse an affect on our society as rap has - and I doubt anyone else could name one either. I despise censorship but some of the crap said in rap songs has made me give that position some more thought. I eventually decided that no matter how bad it is, I would never advocate that rap be censored but I do wish it had never been created and I will always argue that it is little more than crap that has had an adverse affect on our society. To argue otherwise is, in my mind, little more than an attempt to rationalize something that cannot be defended intellectually (hell, Chris Rock has a whole routine about how hard it is to defend rap intellectually).

BTW, I do not want to get into a PBB style discussion here (which is why I rethought things and removed my 'adverse affect on society' comment from my original post) as we have successfully avoided this kind of thing since we created this community. If you'd like to keep debating this I'm fine with that but can I suggest that maybe we do so via PMs rather than out in the open for all to see?

There's no need for debate in private, as I'll make this my last post on the topic. We are in agreement: glorifying misogyny and other aspects of the gang lifestyle are generally bad ideas and could very well have an adverse affect on society.

Where we differ
You cannot think of another genre of music that promotes some of the stupid attitudes that you claim rap does but I can, and it's called rock n roll. Long before DJs and emcees took to the stage, rock stars were glorifying drug use and objectifying women, and they were doing it in alarmingly larger numbers and over a greater period of time. I can only name a few rappers that have died due to drug use, disease, or violence, the list of rockers dying of an overdose or disease is disturbing. Shit, MTV through a fucking tribute concert for Freddy Mercury, a shitbag who knowingly and willingly spread HIV to multiple partners and I even think the world "multiple" might be an understatement.

In my life as musician, both playing music and running a small upstart music label, I have learned that anyone with the dream of making it big in the biz has that one goal, and only that one goal. It's what makes them successful, along with a good dose of timing and luck. Those with backup plans (like me) end up living out those back up plans, not the dream. To claim that this characteristic of not having a backup plan is unique to rappers is simply false, it's a symptom of age for all musicians. We are young, we have big dreams, and we all wanna be stars, this includes: rappers, rockers, punks, classical artists and so on.

Finally, you portray that all of these negative characteristics are shared by all rappers. You're wrong. Rap/hip-hop is large genre of music, much like rock n roll, with many distinct subgenres. Most of what you find offensive, or that which has an adverse affect on society, can be filed under the gangster rap label. I think it is misguided to let gangster rap speak for the whole genre, that teeters on bigotry.

Consider another point, when you shit on rap, you're shitting on people that enjoy rap, and if anything needs to be on a shit list, I think it's shitting on people.

sMiles man.

[colchar]

There's no need for debate in private, as I'll make this my last post on the topic. We are in agreement: glorifying misogyny and other aspects of the gang lifestyle are generally bad ideas and could very well have an adverse affect on society.

Where we differ
You cannot think of another genre of music that promotes some of the stupid attitudes that you claim rap does but I can, and it's called rock n roll. Long before DJs and emcees took to the stage, rock stars were glorifying drug use and objectifying women, and they were doing it in alarmingly larger numbers and over a greater period of time. I can only name a few rappers that have died due to drug use, disease, or violence, the list of rockers dying of an overdose or disease is disturbing. Shit, MTV through a fucking tribute concert for Freddy Mercury, a shitbag who knowingly and willingly spread HIV to multiple partners and I even think the world "multiple" might be an understatement.

Yeah the drug use bothers me too as I have no time for drugs. And I would argue that while many rockers glorified drug use they didn't glorify drug dealing and to me dealing drugs is even worse than using them. And while plenty pf rock stars have died from drugs that was self-inflicted - how many of them have been shot by idiot fans or have idiot fans who run around shooting fans of other artists simply because they like other artists? I can only think of two rock related shootings (Lennon who was shot by a mentally ill individual and Dimebag). How many rap related shootings can you think of?

As for rockers objectifying women, I would argue that that is a far cry from how rappers portray women. Rappers, in my view, are far far far worse. How many rockers/rock songs can you name who sing about bitches, hoes, etc.? Now how many rappers can you name who do that? The rappers win that (dubious) contest by a looooong shot (as they do in the shooting category as well).

In my life as musician, both playing music and running a small upstart music label, I have learned that anyone with the dream of making it big in the biz has that one goal, and only that one goal. It's what makes them successful, along with a good dose of timing and luck. Those with backup plans (like me) end up living out those back up plans, not the dream. To claim that this characteristic of not having a backup plan is unique to rappers is simply false, it's a symptom of age for all musicians. We are young, we have big dreams, and we all wanna be stars, this includes: rappers, rockers, punks, classical artists and so on.

In my experience around the music industry, there are some people involved with other genres that have only one goal but, in contrast to rappers and rap fans, there are far far fewer of them involved with other genres.

Finally, you portray that all of these negative characteristics are shared by all rappers. You're wrong. Rap/hip-hop is large genre of music, much like rock n roll, with many distinct subgenres. Most of what you find offensive, or that which has an adverse affect on society, can be filed under the gangster rap label. I think it is misguided to let gangster rap speak for the whole genre, that teeters on bigotry.

Not all rap, but the vast majority of it that I have ever heard. And that is not bigotry, that is a fact based on observation (or listening in this case).

Consider another point, when you shit on rap, you're shitting on people that enjoy rap, and if anything needs to be on a shit list, I think it's shitting on people.

I don't mean to shit on people who enjoy rap but if it weren't for them buying and supporting it the genre would've died out long ago and, as far as I am concerned, we'd all be better off for it.

[Lavabe]

Mark Martin's favorite music genre is rap:
http://www.scenedaily.com/news/articles ... eiled.html

I think that says it all!

[Miles]

Anti-Americanism.

[gadzooks]

"Friends" on Facebook who express their political views in the most obnoxious and confrontational manner possible. I don't mind and sometimes even enjoy discussing issues with those who disagree with me, but really take issue with essentially being told I'm an idiot for having a different opinion. Buh-bye.

[cl15876]

It was also the night we took this...



Read between the lines.

What a motley looking crew ;)

I love that group! Everyone is a class ACT!

[CameronBornAndBred]

It was also the night we took this...



Read between the lines.

What a motley looking crew ;)

I love that group! Everyone is a class ACT!

Uh...that group includes you. I have proof. 'Tini time!

[cl15876]

"quote="CameronBornAndBred""It was also the night we took this...



Read between the lines."/quote"


What a motley looking crew ;)

I love that group! Everyone is a class ACT!

Uh...that group includes you. I have proof. 'Tini time!

I'll BRB, have to get tissues! you big lug! Thanks a LOT!

[windsor]

"Friends" on Facebook who express their political views in the most obnoxious and confrontational manner possible. I don't mind and sometimes even enjoy discussing issues with those who disagree with me, but really take issue with essentially being told I'm an idiot for having a different opinion. Buh-bye.

Absolutely....I have taken to just either blocking their feeds OR unfriending them...depends on the consequences of the 'unfriend'......I'm getting really sick of reading the daily bible verses too...thank heavens for the 'hide' button!

[CameronBornAndBred]

Wow...Wilson hasn't placed Chatbot on the list. Yet.

[Miles]

Door-to-door salesmen that disturb me while I'm mowing the lawn. This has happened twice this year. I respect that they're putting in an honest day of work, but look at me: I've got my headphones on, I'm sweating my ass off, I'm pushing a lawnmower, and I've got a scowl on my face. Does it look like I want to buy a magazine subscription?

[captmojo]

It was also the night we took this...



Read between the lines.

I have yet to come to terms with why you folks are on a 'shit list' here.
It is a nice photo, however. and fingers

[devildeac]

It was also the night we took this...



Read between the lines.

I have yet to come to terms with why you folks are on a 'shit list' here.
It is a nice photo, however. and fingers

I think it was a reference to another site in a galaxy far, far away in a time long, long ago.

[Miles]

I think it was a reference to another site in a galaxy far, far away in a time long, long ago.

I love how you're the only one throwing it up sideways. Makes you look like a gangsta. Word.

[windsor]

I think it was a reference to another site in a galaxy far, far away in a time long, long ago.

I love how you're the only one throwing it up sideways. Makes you look like a gangsta. Word.

DD......GANGSTA???

[devildeac]

I think it was a reference to another site in a galaxy far, far away in a time long, long ago.

I love how you're the only one throwing it up sideways. Makes you look like a gangsta. Word.

DD......GANGSTA???

Yea, what she said: