Help Me Settle a Shallow Argument - Flight

[EarlJam]

Okay. I was talking with a friend down here earlier today. We both love aviation. He is not from Ohio but lived there for about ten years or so. Talking aviation and such, the subject of North Carolina's license plate came up ("First in Flight"). I, of course, defended it. After all, the first powered flight happened in the state of North Carolina. Clear case, right? But he argued that since the Wright brothers were from Ohio, and only moved to N.C. because of favorable conditions to test their plane, that Ohio can equally claim "First in Flight" status?

What do you think? Discuss.

-EarlJam

[EarlJam]

If it were, "First to develop sucsessful powered flight," I would have voted "Both, equal," but the first flight was in N.C., hence, "First in Flight."

We should hang a banner at the Capitol.

-EarlJam

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Okay. I was talking with a friend down here earlier today. We both love aviation. He is not from Ohio but lived there for about ten years or so. Talking aviation and such, the subject of North Carolina's license plate came up ("First in Flight). I, of course, defended it. After all, the first powered flight happened in the state of North Carolina. Clear case, right? But he argued that since the Wright brothers were from Ohio, and only moved to N.C. because of favorable conditions to test their plane, that Ohio can equally claim "First in Flight" status?

What do you think? Discuss.

-EarlJam

What counts is where the first flight actually happened.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Okay. I was talking with a friend down here earlier today. We both love aviation. He is not from Ohio but lived there for about ten years or so. Talking aviation and such, the subject of North Carolina's license plate came up ("First in Flight). I, of course, defended it. After all, the first powered flight happened in the state of North Carolina. Clear case, right? But he argued that since the Wright brothers were from Ohio, and only moved to N.C. because of favorable conditions to test their plane, that Ohio can equally claim "First in Flight" status?

What do you think? Discuss.

-EarlJam

The Ohio claim was heard around these parts a few years ago, and was dismissed as sour grapes and so much bullshit.

[Miles]

Favorable flight conditions trump birth of innovators. "North Carolina, First in Flight" is a historically accurate statement right? Let them have "Birthplace of Aviation".

[cl15876]

NC without question! You go EJ!

[EarlJam]

NC without question! You go EJ!

I have a huge passion for aviation. Dude disagreed with me. I made my point over and over again in a civilized mannner. Still, after all rational points were made to him, he did not agree. I persisted, he continued to resist; I tried again, he remained stubborn, so I shot him.

He's dead. He's dead and he deserved it!

North Carolina! First in Flight!

-EJ

[TillyGalore]

Actions speak loudest.

North Carolina "First in Flight".

[lawgrad91]

NC, definitely. The first flight took place here, not in Ohio. I don't care where the Wright brothers were from. Da Vinci designed a helicopter; does that mean ITALY should be first in flight?

EJ, there's no arguing with ignorance. Sometimes shooting is the only option.

[CathyCA]

Ask him to show you where in Ohio the Wright Brothers first flew their flying machine. (Because he can't.)

Then offer to take him to Kitty Hawk, North Carolina.

The beach wins every time.

Sounds like your friend has some insecurities.

[rockymtn devil]

I've always felt that the Buckeye State had the bette claim.

Here's why: N.C.'s slogan is "First in Flight." The language used insinuates that the people who were the "first in flight" were North Carolinians. (if not, what does it mean?) They weren't. They were Ohioans and, therefore, Ohioans were the first in flight.

The arguments presented here all track along the same lines: the flight took place in N.C. and, therefore, N.C. was "first in flight." But that makes an illogical leap. N.C.'s slogan isn't "Location of First Flight." It's "First in Flight", which isn't true. The first people in flight were not from N.C.

Think of it this way: John Glenn was the first American to orbit Earth. He's from Ohio, but the shuttle that he took off in launched from Florida. Was a Floridian the "First in Orbit"?

Full disclosure: I'm from Ohio.

[DukeUsul]

I've always felt that the Buckeye State had the bette claim.

Here's why: N.C.'s slogan is "First in Flight." The language used insinuates that the people who were the "first in flight" were North Carolinians. (if not, what does it mean?) They weren't. They were Ohioans and, therefore, Ohioans were the first in flight.

The arguments presented here all track along the same lines: the flight took place in N.C. and, therefore, N.C. was "first in flight." But that makes an illogical leap. N.C.'s slogan isn't "Location of First Flight." It's "First in Flight", which isn't true. The first people in flight were not from N.C.

Think of it this way: John Glenn was the first American to orbit Earth. He's from Ohio, but the shuttle that he took off in launched from Florida. Was a Floridian the "First in Orbit"?

Full disclosure: I'm from Ohio.

If Florida and Ohio each wanted to put "First in Orbit" on their license plates.... I think everyone would just laugh at Ohio, because clearly all the work to get to orbit was done in Florida. Or Texas for that matter.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Think of it this way: John Glenn was the first American to orbit Earth. He's from Ohio, but the shuttle that he took off in launched from Florida. Was a Floridian the "First in Orbit"?

No. A Russian (Yuri Gagarin) was First in Orbit.

[devildeac]

Think of it this way: John Glenn was the first American to orbit Earth. He's from Ohio, but the shuttle that he took off in launched from Florida. Was a Floridian the "First in Orbit"?

No. A Russian (Yuri Gagarin) was First in Orbit.

I thought a chimp preceded him.

Before he was lasered. of course.

[colchar]

You know, this argument might make sense if the Wright brothers actually had been the first to accomplish heavier-than-air powered flight but they weren't!!!

That feat was first accomplished by the Englishman, John Stringfellow, in 1848. Americans like to claim, actually they love to claim, that the Wright Brothers were first so I know none of you are gonna like hearing this (especially those in North Carolina) but it simply isn't true that the first heavier-than-air flight took place in North Carolina. Heck, the Aeronautical Society of Great Britain was formed in 1866!

In 1874 Félix du Temple de la Croix of France accomplished an extremely short flight (something akin to a bunny hop but it was still a powered flight).

The Russian Alexander Feodorovich Mozhaiski accomplished the first powered flight (20-30 meters) of a multi-engined plane in 1884.

In 1890 the Frenchman Clement Ader flew about 50 meters and a couple of years later flew some more trials in other models but there is conflicting evidence as to whether or not these actually covered any real distance (some say they crashed right away while others say they flew 200-300 meters). Regardless, the truth about his flights may never be conclusively known as they were military experiments and were thus a closely guarded secret. The info about his flights didn't come to light for several years afterwards.

Hiram Maxim (inventor of the machine gun) conducted trials and got one model up to 40+ miles per hour but this particular model was semi-attached to a cable (for stability).

Samuel Pierpoint Langley constructed a plane that flew for a half mile over the Potomac in 1896. This flight took about 90 seconds but was unmanned. Another of his models flew over 5000 feet.

Also in 1896, Octave Chanute constructed a plane that heavily influenced the Wright Brothers and which flew more than 100 feet along the shore of Lake Michigan.

In 1899 Percy Pilcher was apparently killed when he hit a building while flying a glider immediately prior to trying to fly his triplane aircraft. That triplane was built in 2003 using his journals and the material that he planned to use. This plane was successfully flown after being built.

In 1901 Gustave Whitehead flew 800 meters at 15 feet in the air before landing. This flight was witnessed by many (who later signed affidavits attesting to that fact) including a reporter from Bridgeport Connecticut and this was the first heavily publicized flight. If anyone has online access to the Bridgeport Herald it should be easy enough to find the story (my university library doesn't offer access to this paper or even indicate whether it was ever digitized). In January of 1902 Whitehead claims to have flown over Long Island Sound before ditching in the water. Apparently there were affidavits attesting to this flight as well.

On 31 March 1903 Richard Pearse flew for over 100 feet in New Zealand and this flight was witnessed by several people.

I could go on but this should be enough to demonstrate that the Wright Brothers were not the first to fly. Hell, they weren't even the first in the US to accomplish it.

[EarlJam]

I knew this would come up, hence, "other."

-EJ

You know, this argument might make sense if the Wright brothers actually had been the first to accomplish heavier-than-air powered flight but they weren't!!!

That feat was first accomplished by the Englishman, John Stringfellow, in 1848. Americans like to claim, actually they love to claim, that the Wright Brothers were first so I know none of you are gonna like hearing this (especially those in North Carolina) but it simply isn't true that the first heavier-than-air flight took place in North Carolina. Heck, the Aeronautical Society of Great Britain was formed in 1866!

In 1874 Félix du Temple de la Croix of France accomplished an extremely short flight (something akin to a bunny hop but it was still a powered flight).

The Russian Alexander Feodorovich Mozhaiski accomplished the first powered flight (20-30 meters) of a multi-engined plane in 1884.

In 1890 the Frenchman Clement Ader flew about 50 meters and a couple of years later flew some more trials in other models but there is conflicting evidence as to whether or not these actually covered any real distance (some say they crashed right away while others say they flew 200-300 meters). Regardless, the truth about his flights may never be conclusively known as they were military experiments and were thus a closely guarded secret. The info about his flights didn't come to light for several years afterwards.

Hiram Maxim (inventor of the machine gun) conducted trials and got one model up to 40+ miles per hour but this particular model was semi-attached to a cable (for stability).

Samuel Pierpoint Langley constructed a plane that flew for a half mile over the Potomac in 1896. This flight took about 90 seconds but was unmanned. Another of his models flew over 5000 feet.

Also in 1896, Octave Chanute constructed a plane that heavily influenced the Wright Brothers and which flew more than 100 feet along the shore of Lake Michigan.

In 1899 Percy Pilcher was apparently killed when he hit a building while flying a glider immediately prior to trying to fly his triplane aircraft. That triplane was built in 2003 using his journals and the material that he planned to use. This plane was successfully flown after being built.

In 1901 Gustave Whitehead flew 800 meters at 15 feet in the air before landing. This flight was witnessed by many (who later signed affidavits attesting to that fact) including a reporter from Bridgeport Connecticut and this was the first heavily publicized flight. If anyone has online access to the Bridgeport Herald it should be easy enough to find the story (my university library doesn't offer access to this paper or even indicate whether it was ever digitized). In January of 1902 Whitehead claims to have flown over Long Island Sound before ditching in the water. Apparently there were affidavits attesting to this flight as well.

On 31 March 1903 Richard Pearse flew for over 100 feet in New Zealand and this flight was witnessed by several people.

I could go on but this should be enough to demonstrate that the Wright Brothers were not the first to fly. Hell, they weren't even the first in the US to accomplish it.

[TillyGalore]

You know, this argument might make sense if the Wright brothers actually had been the first to accomplish heavier-than-air powered flight but they weren't!!!

That feat was first accomplished by the Englishman, John Stringfellow, in 1848. Americans like to claim, actually they love to claim, that the Wright Brothers were first so I know none of you are gonna like hearing this (especially those in North Carolina) but it simply isn't true that the first heavier-than-air flight took place in North Carolina. Heck, the Aeronautical Society of Great Britain was formed in 1866!

In 1874 Félix du Temple de la Croix of France accomplished an extremely short flight (something akin to a bunny hop but it was still a powered flight).

The Russian Alexander Feodorovich Mozhaiski accomplished the first powered flight (20-30 meters) of a multi-engined plane in 1884.

In 1890 the Frenchman Clement Ader flew about 50 meters and a couple of years later flew some more trials in other models but there is conflicting evidence as to whether or not these actually covered any real distance (some say they crashed right away while others say they flew 200-300 meters). Regardless, the truth about his flights may never be conclusively known as they were military experiments and were thus a closely guarded secret. The info about his flights didn't come to light for several years afterwards.

Hiram Maxim (inventor of the machine gun) conducted trials and got one model up to 40+ miles per hour but this particular model was semi-attached to a cable (for stability).

Samuel Pierpoint Langley constructed a plane that flew for a half mile over the Potomac in 1896. This flight took about 90 seconds but was unmanned. Another of his models flew over 5000 feet.

Also in 1896, Octave Chanute constructed a plane that heavily influenced the Wright Brothers and which flew more than 100 feet along the shore of Lake Michigan.

In 1899 Percy Pilcher was apparently killed when he hit a building while flying a glider immediately prior to trying to fly his triplane aircraft. That triplane was built in 2003 using his journals and the material that he planned to use. This plane was successfully flown after being built.

In 1901 Gustave Whitehead flew 800 meters at 15 feet in the air before landing. This flight was witnessed by many (who later signed affidavits attesting to that fact) including a reporter from Bridgeport Connecticut and this was the first heavily publicized flight. If anyone has online access to the Bridgeport Herald it should be easy enough to find the story (my university library doesn't offer access to this paper or even indicate whether it was ever digitized). In January of 1902 Whitehead claims to have flown over Long Island Sound before ditching in the water. Apparently there were affidavits attesting to this flight as well.

On 31 March 1903 Richard Pearse flew for over 100 feet in New Zealand and this flight was witnessed by several people.

I could go on but this should be enough to demonstrate that the Wright Brothers were not the first to fly. Hell, they weren't even the first in the US to accomplish it.

Fuckin' know it all. ;) ;)

[colchar]

You know, this argument might make sense if the Wright brothers actually had been the first to accomplish heavier-than-air powered flight but they weren't!!!

That feat was first accomplished by the Englishman, John Stringfellow, in 1848. Americans like to claim, actually they love to claim, that the Wright Brothers were first so I know none of you are gonna like hearing this (especially those in North Carolina) but it simply isn't true that the first heavier-than-air flight took place in North Carolina. Heck, the Aeronautical Society of Great Britain was formed in 1866!

In 1874 Félix du Temple de la Croix of France accomplished an extremely short flight (something akin to a bunny hop but it was still a powered flight).

The Russian Alexander Feodorovich Mozhaiski accomplished the first powered flight (20-30 meters) of a multi-engined plane in 1884.

In 1890 the Frenchman Clement Ader flew about 50 meters and a couple of years later flew some more trials in other models but there is conflicting evidence as to whether or not these actually covered any real distance (some say they crashed right away while others say they flew 200-300 meters). Regardless, the truth about his flights may never be conclusively known as they were military experiments and were thus a closely guarded secret. The info about his flights didn't come to light for several years afterwards.

Hiram Maxim (inventor of the machine gun) conducted trials and got one model up to 40+ miles per hour but this particular model was semi-attached to a cable (for stability).

Samuel Pierpoint Langley constructed a plane that flew for a half mile over the Potomac in 1896. This flight took about 90 seconds but was unmanned. Another of his models flew over 5000 feet.

Also in 1896, Octave Chanute constructed a plane that heavily influenced the Wright Brothers and which flew more than 100 feet along the shore of Lake Michigan.

In 1899 Percy Pilcher was apparently killed when he hit a building while flying a glider immediately prior to trying to fly his triplane aircraft. That triplane was built in 2003 using his journals and the material that he planned to use. This plane was successfully flown after being built.

In 1901 Gustave Whitehead flew 800 meters at 15 feet in the air before landing. This flight was witnessed by many (who later signed affidavits attesting to that fact) including a reporter from Bridgeport Connecticut and this was the first heavily publicized flight. If anyone has online access to the Bridgeport Herald it should be easy enough to find the story (my university library doesn't offer access to this paper or even indicate whether it was ever digitized). In January of 1902 Whitehead claims to have flown over Long Island Sound before ditching in the water. Apparently there were affidavits attesting to this flight as well.

On 31 March 1903 Richard Pearse flew for over 100 feet in New Zealand and this flight was witnessed by several people.

I could go on but this should be enough to demonstrate that the Wright Brothers were not the first to fly. Hell, they weren't even the first in the US to accomplish it.

Fuckin' know it all. ;) ;)

[bjornolf]

Okay. I was talking with a friend down here earlier today. We both love aviation. He is not from Ohio but lived there for about ten years or so. Talking aviation and such, the subject of North Carolina's license plate came up ("First in Flight"). I, of course, defended it. After all, the first powered flight happened in the state of North Carolina. Clear case, right? But he argued that since the Wright brothers were from Ohio, and only moved to N.C. because of favorable conditions to test their plane, that Ohio can equally claim "First in Flight" status?

What do you think? Discuss.

-EarlJam

Yea, it's not our fault that Ohio can't even claim decent atmospheric conditions. ;)

[CathyCA]

You know, this argument might make sense if the Wright brothers actually had been the first to accomplish heavier-than-air powered flight but they weren't!!!

That feat was first accomplished by the Englishman, John Stringfellow, in 1848. Americans like to claim, actually they love to claim, that the Wright Brothers were first so I know none of you are gonna like hearing this (especially those in North Carolina) but it simply isn't true that the first heavier-than-air flight took place in North Carolina. Heck, the Aeronautical Society of Great Britain was formed in 1866!

In 1874 Félix du Temple de la Croix of France accomplished an extremely short flight (something akin to a bunny hop but it was still a powered flight).

The Russian Alexander Feodorovich Mozhaiski accomplished the first powered flight (20-30 meters) of a multi-engined plane in 1884.

In 1890 the Frenchman Clement Ader flew about 50 meters and a couple of years later flew some more trials in other models but there is conflicting evidence as to whether or not these actually covered any real distance (some say they crashed right away while others say they flew 200-300 meters). Regardless, the truth about his flights may never be conclusively known as they were military experiments and were thus a closely guarded secret. The info about his flights didn't come to light for several years afterwards.

Hiram Maxim (inventor of the machine gun) conducted trials and got one model up to 40+ miles per hour but this particular model was semi-attached to a cable (for stability).

Samuel Pierpoint Langley constructed a plane that flew for a half mile over the Potomac in 1896. This flight took about 90 seconds but was unmanned. Another of his models flew over 5000 feet.

Also in 1896, Octave Chanute constructed a plane that heavily influenced the Wright Brothers and which flew more than 100 feet along the shore of Lake Michigan.

In 1899 Percy Pilcher was apparently killed when he hit a building while flying a glider immediately prior to trying to fly his triplane aircraft. That triplane was built in 2003 using his journals and the material that he planned to use. This plane was successfully flown after being built.

In 1901 Gustave Whitehead flew 800 meters at 15 feet in the air before landing. This flight was witnessed by many (who later signed affidavits attesting to that fact) including a reporter from Bridgeport Connecticut and this was the first heavily publicized flight. If anyone has online access to the Bridgeport Herald it should be easy enough to find the story (my university library doesn't offer access to this paper or even indicate whether it was ever digitized). In January of 1902 Whitehead claims to have flown over Long Island Sound before ditching in the water. Apparently there were affidavits attesting to this flight as well.

On 31 March 1903 Richard Pearse flew for over 100 feet in New Zealand and this flight was witnessed by several people.

I could go on but this should be enough to demonstrate that the Wright Brothers were not the first to fly. Hell, they weren't even the first in the US to accomplish it.

Yeah, but did any of these people do it at the beach?