Legal Question

[wilson]

I was driving home from campus a little while ago and I passed a police cruiser about halfway through my trip. After we passed through a red light, the cop pulled right behind me and I could see him very obviously flip up the screen on his laptop to run my tag. It's rather unlikely that he was simply following some normal route or on his way somewhere, as I take a rather wending route via back streets all the way across town. Finally when I made my turn into Mom's neighborhood, the cop stayed straight, but he had been not-so-surreptitiously following me for a solid 10 minutes at that point.
This infuriates me. I was doing nothing suspicious...I always drive the speed limit (at least in town), I wasn't weaving through traffic, I wasn't playing loud music. I also always wear my seatbelt.
If he had found something in my record, would this have held up in court? The situation seemed to be entirely devoid of probable cause, but it did leave me feeling nervous and put off.

[EarlJam]

I was driving home from campus a little while ago and I passed a police cruiser about halfway through my trip. After we passed through a red light, the cop pulled right behind me and I could see him very obviously flip up the screen on his laptop to run my tag. It's rather unlikely that he was simply following some normal route or on his way somewhere, as I take a rather wending route via back streets all the way across town. Finally when I made my turn into Mom's neighborhood, the cop stayed straight, but he had been not-so-surreptitiously following me for a solid 10 minutes at that point.
This infuriates me. I was doing nothing suspicious...I always drive the speed limit (at least in town), I wasn't weaving through traffic, I wasn't playing loud music. I also always wear my seatbelt.
If he had found something in my record, would this have held up in court? The situation seemed to be entirely devoid of probable cause, but it did leave me feeling nervous and put off.

Damn. I got a little nervous just reading this. Nothing beats having a cop on your bumper for an extended period of time. "Okay, act cool. Turn the radio down. Act cool. Act cool."

I don't know anything about the legalities of the matter, but I've often wondered the same thing. How can the police just run something without probable cause? Also, road blocks. Obviously they are legal but why? If I'm driving down the road, minding my own business and obeying the law (or not), what gives them the right to stop every damn car coming down the road and put the driver through an inquisition? Again, I know it's legal but why? Under what law? I've never gotten into trouble in road blocks but I have ALWAYS found them to be a crock.

Damn Wilson, that sucks, but like you said, at least you didn't get pulled. Was Fleetwood Mac playing on the radio the whole time? Nightmare.

-EJ

[CameronBornAndBred]

It's your scruffy beard. He was waiting for you pull out your beer or joint.

When I lived in the mountains, I got stopped at a checkpoint, and they asked if they could search my car (which wasn't mine, it was my ex's, and I had no idea what she might have in there). I agreed, and they searched with the drug dogs and everything. I asked one cop while the other was searching "Why did you pull me aside".
"We are pulling everyone" (he says this as at least 15 cars drive by without hassle)
"If I said no to the search, what you have done"
"Nothing, you would have been free to go"

Both those statements from the cop were complete bullshit. They totally profiled me. I was even more hippie looking back then than I am now, I still get cops stares and occasionally pulled over. Last year I was pulled over for "following the car in front of me too close". The car "in front of me" was in the other lane. Fuggin cops.

[wilson]

Damn Wilson, that sucks, but like you said, at least you didn't get pulled. Was Fleetwood Mac playing on the radio the whole time? Nightmare.

-EJ

No Fleetwood Mac...I've picked up quite the proclivity for the occasional guilty pleasure of inane sports talk radio in recent months.

[wilson]

It's your scruffy beard. He was waiting for you pull out your beer or joint.

When I lived in the mountains, I got stopped at a checkpoint, and they asked if they could search my car (which wasn't mine, it was my ex's, and I had no idea what she might have in there). I agreed, and they searched with the drug dogs and everything. I asked one cop while the other was searching "Why did you pull me aside".
"We are pulling everyone" (he says this as at least 15 cars drive by without hassle)
"If I said no to the search, what you have done"
"Nothing, you would have been free to go"

Both those statements from the cop were complete bullshit. They totally profiled me. I was even more hippie looking back then than I am now, I still get cops stares and occasionally pulled over. Last year I was pulled over for "following the car in front of me too close". The car "in front of me" was in the other lane. Fuggin cops.

This is part of my question here. What, exactly, would my rights be if I were pulled over? Can I really just deny the cop a chance to search my vehicle without repercussions? Can he arrest me for refusing a search? People have told me that I should always decline a search, but that just seems tailor-made to further incriminate me.

[TillyGalore]

I was driving home from campus a little while ago and I passed a police cruiser about halfway through my trip. After we passed through a red light, the cop pulled right behind me and I could see him very obviously flip up the screen on his laptop to run my tag. It's rather unlikely that he was simply following some normal route or on his way somewhere, as I take a rather wending route via back streets all the way across town. Finally when I made my turn into Mom's neighborhood, the cop stayed straight, but he had been not-so-surreptitiously following me for a solid 10 minutes at that point.
This infuriates me. I was doing nothing suspicious...I always drive the speed limit (at least in town), I wasn't weaving through traffic, I wasn't playing loud music. I also always wear my seatbelt.
If he had found something in my record, would this have held up in court? The situation seemed to be entirely devoid of probable cause, but it did leave me feeling nervous and put off.

Could this be the reason he followed you?

[CameronBornAndBred]

This is part of my question here. What, exactly, would my rights be if I were pulled over? Can I really just deny the cop a chance to search my vehicle without repercussions? Can he arrest me for refusing a search? People have told me that I should always decline a search, but that just seems tailor-made to further incriminate me.

One day, when I actually have time to find out, I will. My guess is somebody will be calling a judge for a search warrant.
When I say I'll find out, I don't mean by Googling it, I mean by putting it to the test. What's supposed to happen, and what does happen are usually different things when it comes to cops. Anyone get the idea I don't like cops?

[wilson]

After we passed through a red light

Could this be the reason he followed you?

I didn't mean that we ran a light...rather, we both pulled up to a red light, he in one lane and I in the other. After it turned green and as we passed through, he pulled up behind me.

[DukeUsul]

Maybe there was a report of a crime in a vehicle that matched your description and he was checking your tags against that alert.

I'm not a lawyer, but I HAVE watched a lot of Law and Order..... I think they need either probably cause or your permission to search. If you don't grant permission, then they need to observe something to make them think there is evidence of a crime, i.e., you roll down your window and they smell pot.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Personally, I couldn't have stood his tailing me that long without getting an explanation. I'd have pulled over, parked and forced the issue. Either he would have gone on ahead or stopped behind me and I could have asked what was up.
It must get really boring driving around in that car all day long day after day. Sometimes I think they like to pull your chain just for fun, bless their juvenile hearts.
Love, Ima

[Johnboy]

I'm a lawyer, but not a criminal defense lawyer, so this could all be wrong, but here's what I recall from classes/bar review on the topic:

A cop is permitted to run a license check on you any time with or without probable cause to do so. This is because (i) driving is a privilege, not a right, and (ii) you have no reasonable expectation of privacy in the public areas of your vehicle. To search your trunk, an officer must either have your permission or a warrant, but can detain you to obtain a warrant if you choose not to give permission. To get a warrant, he must convince a judge that he has probable cause to believe the trunk contains evidence of a crime/contraband/bad stuff.

Incidentally, our police chief addressed our Rotary Club and said we're getting a device with the capability to automatically scan and check every license plate it detects. He assured us that it would only be used for good purposes and not government surveillance of law-abiding citizens. If a small town (pop.<10,000) in a Tier 1 county in rural NC is getting one, I reckon bigger places already have them.

As for roadblocks, they don't have to stop everyone, but they usually do. Random stops are OK, but selective enforcement is not.

I was followed for 30 minutes by a State trooper a few weeks ago. I love me some cruise control!

Also, check out the song "The Law is for Protection of the People" - the lyrics are right on point here - not just for hippies, but for "decent folks like you and me".

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I was driving home from campus a little while ago and I passed a police cruiser about halfway through my trip. After we passed through a red light, the cop pulled right behind me and I could see him very obviously flip up the screen on his laptop to run my tag. It's rather unlikely that he was simply following some normal route or on his way somewhere, as I take a rather wending route via back streets all the way across town. Finally when I made my turn into Mom's neighborhood, the cop stayed straight, but he had been not-so-surreptitiously following me for a solid 10 minutes at that point.
This infuriates me. I was doing nothing suspicious...I always drive the speed limit (at least in town), I wasn't weaving through traffic, I wasn't playing loud music. I also always wear my seatbelt.
If he had found something in my record, would this have held up in court? The situation seemed to be entirely devoid of probable cause, but it did leave me feeling nervous and put off.

Damn. I got a little nervous just reading this. Nothing beats having a cop on your bumper for an extended period of time. "Okay, act cool. Turn the radio down. Act cool. Act cool."

I don't know anything about the legalities of the matter, but I've often wondered the same thing. How can the police just run something without probable cause? Also, road blocks. Obviously they are legal but why? If I'm driving down the road, minding my own business and obeying the law (or not), what gives them the right to stop every damn car coming down the road and put the driver through an inquisition? Again, I know it's legal but why? Under what law? I've never gotten into trouble in road blocks but I have ALWAYS found them to be a crock.

Damn Wilson, that sucks, but like you said, at least you didn't get pulled. Was Fleetwood Mac playing on the radio the whole time? Nightmare.

-EJ

Well, they probably pulled you so they wouldn't be accused of profiling minorities (primarily black and hispanic poeple) and Arab terrorists. You met their white person quota for the day.

BTW, if I was driving someone else's car, with permission of course, no way would I let them search it - no telling what contraband they may have had in it, and you'd be in a bad fix explaining your way out of it if they had found some contraband.

Damn, that reminds me. I still have my mother's registration in my wallet from when I was driving it last week. Better drop it in the mail today!

[CameronBornAndBred]

not just for hippies, but for "decent folks like you and me".

Excuse me...I proudly claim both titles.

[EarlJam]

When the Fuzz does run a plate, what information is he/she getting back? Obviously name, address, warrants, registration. Anything else?

-EarlJam

[CameronBornAndBred]

BTW, if I was driving someone else's car, with permission of course, no way would I let them search it - no telling what contraband they may have had in it, and you'd be in a bad fix explaining your way out of it if they had found some contraband.

Damn, that reminds me. I still have my mother's registration in my wallet from when I was driving it last week. Better drop it in the mail today!

The first thing I said was "it's not my car". Tough patooties. As the driver, the cop explained, you are responsible for the contents. So if I had said no, and they had gotten warrant (as I suspect they would have), and if they had found anything, I would have been up the creek.

[Johnboy]

BTW, if I was driving someone else's car, with permission of course, no way would I let them search it - no telling what contraband they may have had in it, and you'd be in a bad fix explaining your way out of it if they had found some contraband.

Damn, that reminds me. I still have my mother's registration in my wallet from when I was driving it last week. Better drop it in the mail today!

The first thing I said was "it's not my car". Tough patooties. As the driver, the cop explained, you are responsible for the contents. So if I had said no, and they had gotten warrant (as I suspect they would have), and if they had found anything, I would have been up the creek.

Well, you might have been charged, but you would still have an opportunity to explain to a jury of your peers that you were driving a borrowed car and didn't know about its contents.

[Johnboy]

not just for hippies, but for "decent folks like you and me".

Excuse me...I proudly claim both titles.

Did you listen to the song (or look up the lyrics)? "Decent folks like you and me" is stated ironically.

In the song, the Law, in the name of the "People" (meaning, of course, only the "decent folks") crucified the savior.

Cause the law is for protection of the People
Rules are rules and any fool can see
We don't need know riddle speaking prophets
Scaring decent folks like you and me - no siree

[Rolvix]

When the Fuzz does run a plate, what information is he/she getting back? Obviously name, address, warrants, registration. Anything else?

-EarlJam

Social Security Number, Address, Phone Number, Facebook Password, Bank Account Passwords, Friends, Relatives, Likes/Dislikes... You know, the works.

[wilson]

When the Fuzz does run a plate, what information is he/she getting back? Obviously name, address, warrants, registration. Anything else?

-EarlJam

Social Security Number, Address, Phone Number, Facebook Password, Bank Account Passwords, Friends, Relatives, Likes/Dislikes... You know, the works.

You would know, you hardened criminal, you.
;)

[Jesus_hurley]

When the Fuzz does run a plate, what information is he/she getting back? Obviously name, address, warrants, registration. Anything else?

-EarlJam

Social Security Number, Address, Phone Number, Facebook Password, Bank Account Passwords, Friends, Relatives, Likes/Dislikes... You know, the works.

PWing status too?