The Political Junkie Thread

[Chicago 1995]

Correct, and anyone who compares it to George Floyd is just proving their ignorance and their inability to think independently and intelligently.

It is a huge false equivalency. It is the Faux News narrative, and I know that because I’ve heard my dad say something similar. Breaking into the Capitol and trashing it, and assaulting police officers in the process, is not the same as the George Floyd protests. No one was trying to overthrow the government and install a dictator in the latter.

Who is being charged with trying to overthrow the government? Nobody has been charged with insurrection.

Rioters should serve the time for the crimes they committed. If they destroyed property, they do the time. If the assaulted a police officer, do the time.

The majority of people who entered the Capitol that day were peaceful protesters, many who were let in by Capitol police. Those people do not deserve to be charged with anything.

Nobody was trying to install a fucking dictator. Last month proved that the majority of people don’t give a flying fuck about the bogus J6 bullshit. If you want your side to be successful, you’re going to have to get over that.

Peaceful protestors led in by Capitol police? And you're deriding another poster about wanting an echo chamber? Even to the extent Capitol Police didn't stop people from entering that day, there's no way any of them could of reasonably believed they were allowed on the premises at that point. People literally broke windows and bashed in doors. I'm just a tourist wandering into Nancy Pelosi's office through a door that's been ripped off its hinges talking to a guy that came in through that broken window. GMAFB.

And just because a very thin majority of people who voted may not give a shit about J6, that doesn't make it right. Doesn't mean it wasn't the most serious threat to our democracy in our lifetimes. Not the rioters, mind you. The ham-fisted attempt to stop the certification. The slates of false electors. It's not something anyone should be getting over. But "my side" can't message for shit and doesn't play with the ruthlessness your side does, so here we are. See what the world looks like when we get to the other side.

[AtlBluRew]

The troll did have one semi-valid point, and that is that calling people out for being the racist, misogynistic fascists that they are is going to alienate them. I’m at the point though where I have to do it, or else I think I will be enabling racist, misogynistic fascism. I’ve also come to believe that people who willingly swallow all that FoxNews offers up are simply not persuadable. There’s an emotional attachment that logic can’t overcome.

[jipops]

Speaking of do the crime, do the time, I really don't think this obnoxious attitude is in keeping with the community CB&B is trying to keep around here. And you kind of have a history of anger issues. I will defer to the CB&B to determine how he wants to run things and fully trust his judgement.

Despite this being pretty much an echo chamber of Democratic views, I think most of us are open to differing perspectives if they are brought in a respectful, intellectually coherent way that would have been OK in America pre-2015. I disagree with David French on a lot of core political issues but love reading what he has to say because he is very thoughtful and isn't looking to pick a fight. However, that is not what you are doing.

Lol.

After years of being falsely accused of being a fascist, sexist, racist, and “threat to democracy”, it is reasonable for me to have some “anger issues”.

You don’t get to just throw those words out and expect us (MAGA crowd) to not get angry, and to not want to take a victory lap after a huge win.

I firmly believe what got tRump over the line to win in one of the smallest winning popular vote margins in many years (less than 50%) were just a few ordinary people who wanted to pay less for eggs. Then there is the MAGA mob that support the sexist, fascistic, racist, lying lunatic behaviors that is tRump. tRump winning isn’t going to change what those people are.

This is very much true. Exit polls showed that Harris had higher favorability than Trump even though she lost. This indicates that a large part of the electorate was voting against a status quo rather than voting for Trump. It was simply a terrible time for incumbents across the globe. If this election came a year later I guarantee the results would be different. Just as Trump did after the Obama years, he’ll reap the political benefits of a growing economy as costs continue to lower relative to wages and unemployment remains low. That is, until his administration burns it all to the ground and causes widespread havoc with fewer immigrant workers, free-for-all deregulation, an enormously strained relationship with foreign allies, and varying crises for health care recipients.

The shit show is imminent.

[Phredd3]

If you want to go there, yes, MOST January 6th protesters deserve a pardon, and should get one.

If they destroyed property or caused injury, they should serve their appropriate time (unlike the thugs from the 2020 “summer of love” riots)

Any further questions from the minority?

So, the answer is "no", you don't have a reasoned opinion on this. Got it.

I gave you one, you just didn’t like it.

Sadly, you did no such thing. You partially answered one half - indeed, the more speculative half - of the two questions I posed, than added a distractor and an insult. That's not the same thing as a reasoned opinion, and therefore I'm done engaging with you.

[Chicago 1995]

The troll did have one semi-valid point, and that is that calling people out for being the racist, misogynistic fascists that they are is going to alienate them. I’m at the point though where I have to do it, or else I think I will be enabling racist, misogynistic fascism. I’ve also come to believe that people who willingly swallow all that FoxNews offers up are simply not persuadable. There’s an emotional attachment that logic can’t overcome.

It may be too subtle a distinction, but it's not that Trump voters are necessarily racist/sexist/homophobic, etc. It's that those ideas aren't dealbreakers for them.

I think that's important in understanding some of the failures in Democratic messaging over the last 12 years and what we need to think about going forward. Still fight the good fight, but understand that for some voters -- voters we've been losing in droves over the last 12 years -- things like rising food costs, jobs, education are more important. Food prices and the cost of going to college are a hell of a lot more important to a family of five in rural Illinois than championing DEI initiatives. I'm not saying that the latter isn't important and doesn't have a place in what Democrats should do, but the perception is that the latter is more important to National Democrats than the former. It's why, I think, the abhorrent anti-Trans ad Trump ran into the ground in October was so effective. It's not hate -- vehemently anti-trans voters were already highly likely in the Trump camp. It's the perception of Democratic priorities.

I get that Trump and the GOP don't exactly have policy answers for those issues for rural and working class voters, but they have consistently connected with more and more of those voters over the last 12 years. Voters believe those guys will be better for their interests. Democrats need to change that. I also concede that there's a non-zero percentage of this population of voters that can't be swayed, some of whom are racist/sexist/homophobic, etc., but painting with the broad brush that too many Democrats have helped get us here.

Post note 1: I grew up in a town of 700 in a county that went Obama, Trump, Trumpier, Trumpiest the last four elections. My wife did too, and even though we live in the Chicago burbs, her Dad and two of her brothers still live in her hometown, which is 5 miles from mine. We're back a lot and we both still have a lot of friends back there. Hence, me speaking a bit on behalf of voters like this who I know exist. I stood up in a number of their weddings. One of them introduced my wife and I.

Post note 2: It's not on point here, but there's some inquality in outrage here too. Our Trump poster here isn't wrong that a lot of people were infuriated and remain infuriated by Democratic "namecalling" dating back to being called deplorables all the way up until today. Of course, over that same time, some of those same people have equated Democrat with communist, marxist, anti-american, even pedophile.

Post note 3: The alternative, I guess, is not reaching out to these voters the Democratic party has been bleeding, but instead to expand our coalition and umbrella to get groups that haven't turned out and increase the number of D votes to counter these losses *and* get some gains. That failed kind of spectacularly this year, whether you look at Democratic losses in long-time strongholds like Chicago and New York, the overall losses in the fallen Blue Wall or the lack of gains in young voter turnout. There's also the problem that Democrats have uphill battles to fight with rapidly growing groups like Hispanic American voters. Even with winning an election in there (and Joe doing a lot of good things during his 4 years), the Democrats have done almost no building for the future at all. Hopefully there will be meaningful changes in leadership pretty much across the board and those with new ideas can change the party's electoral direction. I'm skeptical there's a shining star who in four years doesn't have a best case of praying for turnout in Detroit, Milwaukee and Philly and have everyone biting their nails and drinking heavily on the first Tuesday in November 2028, but even if there is, this generation of Democratic leadership has failed. Spectacularly.

[jipops]

The troll did have one semi-valid point, and that is that calling people out for being the racist, misogynistic fascists that they are is going to alienate them. I’m at the point though where I have to do it, or else I think I will be enabling racist, misogynistic fascism. I’ve also come to believe that people who willingly swallow all that FoxNews offers up are simply not persuadable. There’s an emotional attachment that logic can’t overcome.

It may be too subtle a distinction, but it's not that Trump voters are necessarily racist/sexist/homophobic, etc. It's that those ideas aren't dealbreakers for them.

I think that's important in understanding some of the failures in Democratic messaging over the last 12 years and what we need to think about going forward. Still fight the good fight, but understand that for some voters -- voters we've been losing in droves over the last 12 years -- things like rising food costs, jobs, education are more important. Food prices and the cost of going to college are a hell of a lot more important to a family of five in rural Illinois than championing DEI initiatives. I'm not saying that the latter isn't important and doesn't have a place in what Democrats should do, but the perception is that the latter is more important to National Democrats than the former. It's why, I think, the abhorrent anti-Trans ad Trump ran into the ground in October was so effective. It's not hate -- vehemently anti-trans voters were already highly likely in the Trump camp. It's the perception of Democratic priorities.

I get that Trump and the GOP don't exactly have policy answers for those issues for rural and working class voters, but they have consistently connected with more and more of those voters over the last 12 years. Voters believe those guys will be better for their interests. Democrats need to change that. I also concede that there's a non-zero percentage of this population of voters that can't be swayed, some of whom are racist/sexist/homophobic, etc., but painting with the broad brush that too many Democrats have helped get us here.

Post note 1: I grew up in a town of 700 in a county that went Obama, Trump, Trumpier, Trumpiest the last four elections. My wife did too, and even though we live in the Chicago burbs, her Dad and two of her brothers still live in her hometown, which is 5 miles from mine. We're back a lot and we both still have a lot of friends back there. Hence, me speaking a bit on behalf of voters like this who I know exist. I stood up in a number of their weddings. One of them introduced my wife and I.

Post note 2: It's not on point here, but there's some inquality in outrage here too. Our Trump poster here isn't wrong that a lot of people were infuriated and remain infuriated by Democratic "namecalling" dating back to being called deplorables all the way up until today. Of course, over that same time, some of those same people have equated Democrat with communist, marxist, anti-american, even pedophile.

Post note 3: The alternative, I guess, is not reaching out to these voters the Democratic party has been bleeding, but instead to expand our coalition and umbrella to get groups that haven't turned out and increase the number of D votes to counter these losses *and* get some gains. That failed kind of spectacularly this year, whether you look at Democratic losses in long-time strongholds like Chicago and New York, the overall losses in the fallen Blue Wall or the lack of gains in young voter turnout. There's also the problem that Democrats have uphill battles to fight with rapidly growing groups like Hispanic American voters. Even with winning an election in there (and Joe doing a lot of good things during his 4 years), the Democrats have done almost no building for the future at all. Hopefully there will be meaningful changes in leadership pretty much across the board and those with new ideas can change the party's electoral direction. I'm skeptical there's a shining star who in four years doesn't have a best case of praying for turnout in Detroit, Milwaukee and Philly and have everyone biting their nails and drinking heavily on the first Tuesday in November 2028, but even if there is, this generation of Democratic leadership has failed. Spectacularly.

I think there is another important point to touch on here: Media. Conservative and far-right wing media dominates the landscape now. There is no such thing as a "liberal mainstream media". Conservative media IS the mainstream media now. Fox news dominates all cable news by an enormous margin than all others combined. All the top podcasts are right wing leaning. Related to your Post note 3, the proliferation of this fear mongering messaging has reached groups that previously did not consider themselves right wing. And in many cases over this past year we've seen major outlets such as the NY Times and Washington Post bend over backwards and phrase their headlines in a way to treat Trump like a totally normal political candidate... the same guy who is a convicted felon, was previously impeached twice by the House, and led an attack on the Capitol (among countless other transgressions). Biden clearly became too old to be a viable candidate and there was non-stop coverage of his stumbles until he dropped out. But strangely there was rarely any questioning of Trump's viability as a candidate. Why was this? I don't claim to have an answer for this but I feel like this is truly the uphill battle for the only party that has any intention of actual governing. It is so much easier to sell fear and grievance and scream things loud enough to make them true than to convey the true complexities and considerations accounting for effective governance.

By the way, I have to be honest, it is still going to be very hard for me to find empathy for people that were willingly duped into this...

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-walks-ba ... wn-1999876

[jipops]

For the 3rd year in a row, Elon’s foundation gave away less money than required by a charity of its size. The amount of dipshitery it takes to believe that a bad faith clown gives a damn about Americans and should have any sort of input in how government services and operates is pathetic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/12/us/p ... tions.html

And these morons are even looking to drop bank regulators, such as the FDIC. https://www.wsj.com/finance/regulation/ ... c-efa761dc

So as we saw in 2007 and 2008 nothing bad could possibly happen there.

Will enough voters come to understand that putting a full fledged oligarchy on influence of government will never serve their actual interests?

[ArkieDukie]

For the 3rd year in a row, Elon’s foundation gave away less money than required by a charity of its size. The amount of dipshitery it takes to believe that a bad faith clown gives a damn about Americans and should have any sort of input in how government services and operates is pathetic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/12/us/p ... tions.html

And these morons are even looking to drop bank regulators, such as the FDIC. https://www.wsj.com/finance/regulation/ ... c-efa761dc

So as we saw in 2007 and 2008 nothing bad could possibly happen there.

Will enough voters come to understand that putting a full fledged oligarchy on influence of government will never serve their actual interests?

Infuriating, right? My niece works for the FDIC, and I believe her job is in serious jeopardy in the upcoming administration for the very reason cited in this article. My dad told me I didn’t know what I was talking about, that her job is safe because of all the regulations Biden put in place. He then talked about Trump’s plans to deregulate the banks. I don’t think he even realized he was contradicting himself. Thanks, FauxNews. The sunshine they are blowing up people’s butts about how wonderful the next 4 years will be is nauseating.

I’ve wondered in the past how effective a class action lawsuit against Fox would be, for their blatant lying and fear mongering. All the people whose family members have been brainwashed would be plaintiffs. We have as evidence the testimony in the Dominion lawsuit in which they admitted to lying. Shut those suckers down.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

For the 3rd year in a row, Elon’s foundation gave away less money than required by a charity of its size. The amount of dipshitery it takes to believe that a bad faith clown gives a damn about Americans and should have any sort of input in how government services and operates is pathetic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/12/us/p ... tions.html

And these morons are even looking to drop bank regulators, such as the FDIC. https://www.wsj.com/finance/regulation/ ... c-efa761dc

So as we saw in 2007 and 2008 nothing bad could possibly happen there.

Will enough voters come to understand that putting a full fledged oligarchy on influence of government will never serve their actual interests?

Infuriating, right? My niece works for the FDIC, and I believe her job is in serious jeopardy in the upcoming administration for the very reason cited in this article. My dad told me I didn’t know what I was talking about, that her job is safe because of all the regulations Biden put in place. He then talked about Trump’s plans to deregulate the banks. I don’t think he even realized he was contradicting himself. Thanks, FauxNews. The sunshine they are blowing up people’s butts about how wonderful the next 4 years will be is nauseating.

I’ve wondered in the past how effective a class action lawsuit against Fox would be, for their blatant lying and fear mongering. All the people whose family members have been brainwashed would be plaintiffs. We have as evidence the testimony in the Dominion lawsuit in which they admitted to lying. Shut those suckers down.

I mentioned a while ago that as much as I am a total rule follower and also don't want to set bad precedent, there is part of me that wanted Biden to use his lame duck period to kick some MAGA butt, since apparently as president he can do whatever he wants. One thing he should do is shut down Fox. Find some random loophole and liberally interpret it. The downside being that Trump could then try to use the same thing to shut down the "Mainstream Media."

Fox is one of the worst things to ever happen to this country. I think I mentioned before that as a result of my company being acquired, I was briefly an employee of News Corp. This was 15+ years ago. I think I was in one meeting with Murdoch and he walked by my desk a few times. Really smart dude - he knows his business very well. But if I could only have gone back and given him a major wedgie, I could have changed the course of history. But they weren't nearly as bad back then - I left right before Obama was elected.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Fox is one of the worst things to ever happen to this country. I think I mentioned before that as a result of my company being acquired, I was briefly an employee of News Corp. This was 15+ years ago. I think I was in one meeting with Murdoch and he walked by my desk a few times. Really smart dude - he knows his business very well. But if I could only have gone back and given him a major wedgie, I could have changed the course of history. But they weren't nearly as bad back then - I left right before Obama was elected.

[AtlBluRew]

Fox is one of the worst things to ever happen to this country. I think I mentioned before that as a result of my company being acquired, I was briefly an employee of News Corp. This was 15+ years ago. I think I was in one meeting with Murdoch and he walked by my desk a few times. Really smart dude - he knows his business very well. But if I could only have gone back and given him a major wedgie, I could have changed the course of history. But they weren't nearly as bad back then - I left right before Obama was elected.

CNC has given us all a major incentive to invent a time machine.

[jipops]

I mean it when I say this, please keep calling him those things. It is a losing strategy by the left, and as long as y'all keep it up you will keep losing.

You guys just don’t get it.

Nope. It’s not a strategy. It wasn’t the strategy. Its just the truth. Anyway, the lying fat orange turd can’t run again. That’s the fucking good news!

It’s not the truth at all.

That “fat orange turd” is your President Elect.

I’m sure overweight people don’t appreciate the fat shaming either

Oh, and even though this is Trump’s last term, the movement has only begun.

Apparently fat shaming is ok for those that are critical of you, but not for people that are just fundamentally void of anything resembling a moral standard.

[acdevil]

Fox is one of the worst things to ever happen to this country. I think I mentioned before that as a result of my company being acquired, I was briefly an employee of News Corp. This was 15+ years ago. I think I was in one meeting with Murdoch and he walked by my desk a few times. Really smart dude - he knows his business very well. But if I could only have gone back and given him a major wedgie, I could have changed the course of history. But they weren't nearly as bad back then - I left right before Obama was elected.

CNC has given us all a major incentive to invent a time machine.

Make sure you give me access to it when you do. As I have mentioned on DBR I have (i) been to Mar-a-Lago, but more importantly, (ii) worked on one of the casino company’s bankruptcies. I’m pretty sure there are a few things I could change in that that would have a large ripple effect.

[Phredd3]

CNC has given us all a major incentive to invent a time machine.

Make sure you give me access to it when you do. As I have mentioned on DBR I have (i) been to Mar-a-Lago, but more importantly, (ii) worked on one of the casino company’s bankruptcies. I’m pretty sure there are a few things I could change in that that would have a large ripple effect.

A larger effect than a nuclear wedgie of Rupert Murdoch? I don't, man, that's a high bar.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Remember the lady that predicted Trump would lose Iowa? Trump sure does, and fresh off his victory settlement with ABC over George Stephofthemetropolis, he's suing Ann Selzer.

Donald Trump sued prominent political analyst and pollster Ann Selzer, the Des Moines Register and its parent company Gannett Monday for “brazen election interference” and fraud after Selzer incorrectly predicted a swing-state win in Iowa for Vice President Kamala Harris just a day before the presidential election last month. Trump went on to win the state by 13 percentage points.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-sues-i ... 17394.html

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Remember the lady that predicted Trump would lose Iowa? Trump sure does, and fresh off his victory settlement with ABC over George Stephofthemetropolis, he's suing Ann Selzer.

Donald Trump sued prominent political analyst and pollster Ann Selzer, the Des Moines Register and its parent company Gannett Monday for “brazen election interference” and fraud after Selzer incorrectly predicted a swing-state win in Iowa for Vice President Kamala Harris just a day before the presidential election last month. Trump went on to win the state by 13 percentage points.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-sues-i ... 17394.html

I'm sure he was smart enough to file in a friendly jurisdiction, but I hope a judge smacks him down for this craziness. This is the most juvenile behavior ever. He makes a living out of insulting people but no one can say a bad thing about him? And this is not even saying a bad thing. Yet tens of millions of Americans are totally fine with this.

I wish some of the Democrat billionaires started filing law suits against him for every "mean" thing he has said.

[CameronBornAndBred]

It's a sad day when a private citizen billionaire has more sway on government than 49% of Congresss and the sitting President combined.

Thanks to Elon, we're facing a government shutdown this weekend. Merry Christmas.

[CameronBornAndBred]

It'd be funny if it weren't true. It's like SNL brought to life.

Trump says if the government shuts down, it's his doing, but it's Biden's fault.

"By doing what I'm doing, I put it into the Biden administration," Trump said. "In this administration, not in my administration."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-threat ... 25353.html

[CrazyNotCrazie]

It'd be funny if it weren't true. It's like SNL brought to life.

Trump says if the government shuts down, it's his doing, but it's Biden's fault.

"By doing what I'm doing, I put it into the Biden administration," Trump said. "In this administration, not in my administration."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-threat ... 25353.html

And the adoring masses believe him. Because they believe everything he says. Because we are elitist jerks who don't get the joke.

I am trying really hard not to follow the news. Because it is all so awful. Always winning.

[CameronBornAndBred]

It'd be funny if it weren't true. It's like SNL brought to life.

Trump says if the government shuts down, it's his doing, but it's Biden's fault.

"By doing what I'm doing, I put it into the Biden administration," Trump said. "In this administration, not in my administration."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-threat ... 25353.html

And the adoring masses believe him. Because they believe everything he says. Because we are elitist jerks who don't get the joke.

I am trying really hard not to follow the news. Because it is all so awful. Always winning.

I haven't watched any broadcast "news" since election day.