The Official "WWWD?" Thread

[ArkieDukie]

Okay, windsor et al., I'd love to have some input. I believe the time has come for me to have it out with PHB. For two weeks now I have sent out messages at the beginning of the week in which I outline ongoing work and ask for his input. For two consecutive weeks I have received no response. Yesterday he gave me a task to be completed by the end of the day. The worksheet that he sent me had something wrong with it, so I sent PHB an e-mail, asking for a corrected version. I left work around 1:00 (migraine), and sent a message again asking for his input - in fact, I said I'd work on it at home if he'd give me a corrected version of the spreadsheet. (He was gone all morning and did not put in a reappearance before I left.) No answer yet. IMO it is not at all constructive to keep me in the dark; it reflects poorly on him and on the lab.

How should I handle this? Part of me thinks a one-on-one come to Jesus meeting would be better, but the other part of me wants to do this via e-mail for several reasons. The first (and most obvious) reason is that it gives me a paper trail and supports the fact that I recognize there's a problem and would like to address it. Secondly, I think that I can be more careful and diplomatic if I do this via e-mail rather than going extemporaneous. What are your thoughts?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Okay, windsor et al., I'd love to have some input. I believe the time has come for me to have it out with PHB. For two weeks now I have sent out messages at the beginning of the week in which I outline ongoing work and ask for his input. For two consecutive weeks I have received no response. Yesterday he gave me a task to be completed by the end of the day. The worksheet that he sent me had something wrong with it, so I sent PHB an e-mail, asking for a corrected version. I left work around 1:00 (migraine), and sent a message again asking for his input - in fact, I said I'd work on it at home if he'd give me a corrected version of the spreadsheet. (He was gone all morning and did not put in a reappearance before I left.) No answer yet. IMO it is not at all constructive to keep me in the dark; it reflects poorly on him and on the lab.

How should I handle this? Part of me thinks a one-on-one come to Jesus meeting would be better, but the other part of me wants to do this via e-mail for several reasons. The first (and most obvious) reason is that it gives me a paper trail and supports the fact that I recognize there's a problem and would like to address it. Secondly, I think that I can be more careful and diplomatic if I do this via e-mail rather than going extemporaneous. What are your thoughts?

I'd go over his head. I'd put my case together on paper and take it to his boss, maybe even a level higher than that, 2 bosses up. You've got your paper trail, you've got your stuff with AI. Enough is enough. You're a high value, highly paid professional, and he treats you like dog-shit, and I think you've put up with it long enough. I'm tired of losing. Aren't you?

[ArkieDukie]

Okay, windsor et al., I'd love to have some input. I believe the time has come for me to have it out with PHB. For two weeks now I have sent out messages at the beginning of the week in which I outline ongoing work and ask for his input. For two consecutive weeks I have received no response. Yesterday he gave me a task to be completed by the end of the day. The worksheet that he sent me had something wrong with it, so I sent PHB an e-mail, asking for a corrected version. I left work around 1:00 (migraine), and sent a message again asking for his input - in fact, I said I'd work on it at home if he'd give me a corrected version of the spreadsheet. (He was gone all morning and did not put in a reappearance before I left.) No answer yet. IMO it is not at all constructive to keep me in the dark; it reflects poorly on him and on the lab.

How should I handle this? Part of me thinks a one-on-one come to Jesus meeting would be better, but the other part of me wants to do this via e-mail for several reasons. The first (and most obvious) reason is that it gives me a paper trail and supports the fact that I recognize there's a problem and would like to address it. Secondly, I think that I can be more careful and diplomatic if I do this via e-mail rather than going extemporaneous. What are your thoughts?

I'd go over his head. I'd put my case together on paper and take it to his boss, maybe even a level higher than that, 2 bosses up. You've got your paper trail, you've got your stuff with AI. Enough is enough. You're a high value, highly paid professional, and he treats you like dog-shit, and I think you've put up with it long enough. I'm tired of losing. Aren't you?

Ozzie, I agree with you in spirit. However, I think that I should talk to my boss first. It seems as though an appeal to highers-up would carry more weight if I could say that I had talked with my boss and nothing changed. Besides, I suspect his behavior would only worsen if I went above his head.

I think I should also mention to him that it's not appropriate to bad-mouth me to the technical staff in the lab. My friend/co-worker has told me that he has made inappropriate remarks about me in meetings, and I suspect this is the root of NuBarbie's attitude any time I dare to offer her advice. If this is true, and I suspect it is, "unprofessional" doesn't even begin to cover it.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Then go into the meeting expecting him to either deny your assertions or be combative, or both. He may even threaten to fire you. He may even do it on the spot. Tell him you want 12 months severance pay with full benefits (and no bad references) and you'll go quietly into the night.

[Lavabe]

Unless you have traceable email evidence of "badmouthing," I wouldn't go anywhere near discussing the issue with PHB. It also risks alienating yourself from your source... unless you have that person's permission. As Ozzie said, it's simple for PHB to deny it.

If you DO have such evidence, then you may begin to question where to go with such info.

[Turk]

Okay, windsor et al., I'd love to have some input. I believe the time has come for me to have it out with PHB. For two weeks now I have sent out messages at the beginning of the week in which I outline ongoing work and ask for his input. For two consecutive weeks I have received no response. Yesterday he gave me a task to be completed by the end of the day. The worksheet that he sent me had something wrong with it, so I sent PHB an e-mail, asking for a corrected version. I left work around 1:00 (migraine), and sent a message again asking for his input - in fact, I said I'd work on it at home if he'd give me a corrected version of the spreadsheet. (He was gone all morning and did not put in a reappearance before I left.) No answer yet. IMO it is not at all constructive to keep me in the dark; it reflects poorly on him and on the lab.

How should I handle this? Part of me thinks a one-on-one come to Jesus meeting would be better, but the other part of me wants to do this via e-mail for several reasons. The first (and most obvious) reason is that it gives me a paper trail and supports the fact that I recognize there's a problem and would like to address it. Secondly, I think that I can be more careful and diplomatic if I do this via e-mail rather than going extemporaneous. What are your thoughts?

I'd chunk this up into pieces. First, since today is Monday, you'll send Email #3 with the plans for the week and what input you need. There will of course be no response from the boss. Tomorrow, shoot another note and ask "Do you have a few minutes to review this with me? Just want to a) get the input I need and b) make sure you are getting the right level of detail about my tasks and dates. Hadn't heard anything back one way or another." Keep Jesus out of it for the time being; the main objective is feedback in both directions. Remember, you're looking to establish a sustainable, well-documented working routine that will last as long as necessary until you get your next job. Second, take the surprise task as a separate discussion. If he throws something on your plate for today, he can't disappear when he gives you something that's wrong to work with. That's just a simple coverage issue - if it needs to go out today, he needs to be accessbile, and if you have to go home sick, you need to find a backup to hand it off to. If no one is willing to do both of those things, then clearly it's not mission critical and can wait until the next day.

[ArkieDukie]

Okay, windsor et al., I'd love to have some input. I believe the time has come for me to have it out with PHB. For two weeks now I have sent out messages at the beginning of the week in which I outline ongoing work and ask for his input. For two consecutive weeks I have received no response. Yesterday he gave me a task to be completed by the end of the day. The worksheet that he sent me had something wrong with it, so I sent PHB an e-mail, asking for a corrected version. I left work around 1:00 (migraine), and sent a message again asking for his input - in fact, I said I'd work on it at home if he'd give me a corrected version of the spreadsheet. (He was gone all morning and did not put in a reappearance before I left.) No answer yet. IMO it is not at all constructive to keep me in the dark; it reflects poorly on him and on the lab.

How should I handle this? Part of me thinks a one-on-one come to Jesus meeting would be better, but the other part of me wants to do this via e-mail for several reasons. The first (and most obvious) reason is that it gives me a paper trail and supports the fact that I recognize there's a problem and would like to address it. Secondly, I think that I can be more careful and diplomatic if I do this via e-mail rather than going extemporaneous. What are your thoughts?

I'd chunk this up into pieces. First, since today is Monday, you'll send Email #3 with the plans for the week and what input you need. There will of course be no response from the boss. Tomorrow, shoot another note and ask "Do you have a few minutes to review this with me? Just want to a) get the input I need and b) make sure you are getting the right level of detail about my tasks and dates. Hadn't heard anything back one way or another." Keep Jesus out of it for the time being; the main objective is feedback in both directions. Remember, you're looking to establish a sustainable, well-documented working routine that will last as long as necessary until you get your next job. Second, take the surprise task as a separate discussion. If he throws something on your plate for today, he can't disappear when he gives you something that's wrong to work with. That's just a simple coverage issue - if it needs to go out today, he needs to be accessbile, and if you have to go home sick, you need to find a backup to hand it off to. If no one is willing to do both of those things, then clearly it's not mission critical and can wait until the next day.

That's a good idea, Turk. Sending a message today with no response gives a N of 3 for updates with no response. Definitely better for establishing a pattern.

We have a collaborator visiting from France this week, and PHB wouldn't meet with her today. He said MAYBE tomorrow. The only people he met with today were those associated with the big project that I'm not on (NuBarbie et al). The collaborator and I worked together all day and got to the point where we need input from PHB. It will be interesting to see if he actually bothers to meet with the collaborator and do what needs to be done while she's here. If I was in her shoes, I'd be very ticked. It's not like PHB hasn't known for several months that this visit was coming, and it's not like he didn't receive reminders last week. Again, clear order of priorities, and projects I'm working on are not among the priority projects. (I bring this up because the collaborator's visit was on last week's e-mail, along with what we need from him for this week. No, it hasn't been done yet.)

Regarding the Friday task, he did what I asked him NOT to do: he sent the corrected document via Task Manager late Friday afternoon. Those messages don't go to my iPhone, so I didn't know it was there until Sunday afternoon. So, definitely not my fault that it was late, and I can document it.

[windsor]

Sorry for ignoring my 'own' thread...just been crazy nutso busy.

Just a few quick points.

Defintiely talk to PHB before you go over his head. If I were his boss my FIRST question would be 'have you talked to him about this' Once you've gotten nowhere with him then you can visit HIS boss. With documentation, timelines et al. I assusme you sent this weeks update...so if there is not response.

Minion - I concur with those who have said this is not the hill to fight the fight on. Do not take the bait...and quit apologizing for stuff. Dump the sicky sweet. Go with concise, professional. Include normal please and thank you and not much more in the nice nice department. In the analysis you just did I would go with (next time)

Had I been online for the last issue I would have suggested...so for next time....
using 'reply all'
I have just received XYZ request. Based on the availablity of ABC I anticpate having the results completed by (time). I did note that your instructions included (point out the error, in an absolutley factual manner) instead of (the right way). If there are factors that I am not aware of that require (wrong way) please advise, other wise I will proceed with (right way).

and when the results are done:
here is xyz...as expected [it is what YOU expected right??] the analyss shows (include summary)


not nasty but not sweet, apologetic or friendly. Do inlcude the standard 'let me know if you need anything else BS.

[ArkieDukie]

I sent my standard update to PHB today. Imagine my surprise when he replied, answering all questions in the message! (He's out of town; maybe that has something to do with it.)

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Sorry for ignoring my 'own' thread...just been crazy nutso busy.

Just a few quick points.

Defintiely talk to PHB before you go over his head. If I were his boss my FIRST question would be 'have you talked to him about this' Once you've gotten nowhere with him then you can visit HIS boss. With documentation, timelines et al. I assusme you sent this weeks update...so if there is not response.

Minion - I concur with those who have said this is not the hill to fight the fight on. Do not take the bait...and quit apologizing for stuff. Dump the sicky sweet. Go with concise, professional. Include normal please and thank you and not much more in the nice nice department. In the analysis you just did I would go with (next time)

Had I been online for the last issue I would have suggested...so for next time....
using 'reply all'
I have just received XYZ request. Based on the availablity of ABC I anticpate having the results completed by (time). I did note that your instructions included (point out the error, in an absolutley factual manner) instead of (the right way). If there are factors that I am not aware of that require (wrong way) please advise, other wise I will proceed with (right way).

and when the results are done:
here is xyz...as expected [it is what YOU expected right??] the analyss shows (include summary)


not nasty but not sweet, apologetic or friendly. Do inlcude the standard 'let me know if you need anything else BS.

My god, you're good! I feel like I'm watching "The Good Wife"!
Love, Ima

[Very Duke Blue]

Sorry for ignoring my 'own' thread...just been crazy nutso busy.

Just a few quick points.

Defintiely talk to PHB before you go over his head. If I were his boss my FIRST question would be 'have you talked to him about this' Once you've gotten nowhere with him then you can visit HIS boss. With documentation, timelines et al. I assusme you sent this weeks update...so if there is not response.

Minion - I concur with those who have said this is not the hill to fight the fight on. Do not take the bait...and quit apologizing for stuff. Dump the sicky sweet. Go with concise, professional. Include normal please and thank you and not much more in the nice nice department. In the analysis you just did I would go with (next time)

Had I been online for the last issue I would have suggested...so for next time....
using 'reply all'
I have just received XYZ request. Based on the availablity of ABC I anticpate having the results completed by (time). I did note that your instructions included (point out the error, in an absolutley factual manner) instead of (the right way). If there are factors that I am not aware of that require (wrong way) please advise, other wise I will proceed with (right way).

and when the results are done:
here is xyz...as expected [it is what YOU expected right??] the analyss shows (include summary)


not nasty but not sweet, apologetic or friendly. Do inlcude the standard 'let me know if you need anything else BS.

My god, you're good! I feel like I'm watching "The Good Wife"!
Love, Ima

I don't know if Windsor is married but what ever, she is "good".

[windsor]

I don't know if Windsor is married but what ever, she is "good".

There is indeed a 'Mr. Windsor'. He has been putting up with me for just over 17 years.

[ArkieDukie]

I discovered what I though was a useful feature in one of our software programs (incorporation of a scoring algorithm that's somewhat widely used for something I do manually) and sent an e-mail to PHB to tell him about it. This evening I received an incredibly snotty response, telling me that one of my predecessors had spent 6 months evaluating the algorithm and it was a complete waste of time. Do I respond and politely call him out for being a jackass (not those words, of course) or ignore it? Rumor has it he was in a mood today because things aren't going so well right now for the big project, but he has no right to take it out on me. Besides, how the heck was I supposed to know about unpublished work that was done a few years before I even started working in the lab?

[windsor]

Send him a reply thanking him for letting you know before you spent anymore time on it. Then ask him where it should be documented so no one else had to waste time on it.

[Turk]

Send him a reply thanking him for letting you know before you spent anymore time on it. Then ask him where it should be documented so no one else had to waste time on it.

Yep, that's a good play. The other thought is to ask where the original analysis is so you could give it a quick review. Since this was done a few years back, maybe the software vendor has addressed some of the gaps in subsequent releases. Also, since accuracy and credibility do not appear to be PHB's strengths, I'd consider spending a little bit of time looking into the software anyway, especially if there is potential for big time / error saving by automating manual work. If this software is commonly used in other labs, the added bonus is that you improve your expertise in a tool that might well be used at your future employer.

As for the snotty response, take the high road and let it go. Smile because you know something he doesn't know - "you are not left-handed!"

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Send him a reply thanking him for letting you know before you spent anymore time on it. Then ask him where it should be documented so no one else had to waste time on it.

Yep, that's a good play. The other thought is to ask where the original analysis is so you could give it a quick review. Since this was done a few years back, maybe the software vendor has addressed some of the gaps in subsequent releases. Also, since accuracy and credibility do not appear to be PHB's strengths, I'd consider spending a little bit of time looking into the software anyway, especially if there is potential for big time / error saving by automating manual work. If this software is commonly used in other labs, the added bonus is that you improve your expertise in a tool that might well be used at your future employer.

As for the snotty response, take the high road and let it go. Smile because you know something he doesn't know - "you are not left-handed!"

And here's a potentially "even better" idea: find out why the software is a waste of time, and if it's within your skill-set, and I'm pretty sure it is or could be, figure out the fix and write a program to do what you (and others) need done and sell it for a big profit, either to the original vendor or as a standalone product to other labs! You may not need no other stinkin' job! You and Miles could form your own software company - MAD Software - (MilesArkieDukie for those not quick on the uptake this morning , and I give Miles top billing only because ADM Corp - Archer Daniels Midland, might object to doing it the other way).

[ArkieDukie]

Send him a reply thanking him for letting you know before you spent anymore time on it. Then ask him where it should be documented so no one else had to waste time on it.

Yep, that's a good play. The other thought is to ask where the original analysis is so you could give it a quick review. Since this was done a few years back, maybe the software vendor has addressed some of the gaps in subsequent releases. Also, since accuracy and credibility do not appear to be PHB's strengths, I'd consider spending a little bit of time looking into the software anyway, especially if there is potential for big time / error saving by automating manual work. If this software is commonly used in other labs, the added bonus is that you improve your expertise in a tool that might well be used at your future employer.

As for the snotty response, take the high road and let it go. Smile because you know something he doesn't know - "you are not left-handed!"

And here's a potentially "even better" idea: find out why the software is a waste of time, and if it's within your skill-set, and I'm pretty sure it is or could be, figure out the fix and write a program to do what you (and others) need done and sell it for a big profit, either to the original vendor or as a standalone product to other labs! You may not need no other stinkin' job! You and Miles could form your own software company - MAD Software - (MilesArkieDukie for those not quick on the uptake this morning , and I give Miles top billing only because ADM Corp - Archer Daniels Midland, might object to doing it the other way).

Love, love, love all the ideas. Thanks to windsor, Turk, and Ozzie!

Actually, I'm fairly certain there are some issues that were not addressed in the previous evaluation. PHB thinks my time can be better spent elsewhere, though. Fine with me. This particular data evaluation algorithm could become more relevant to whoever replaces me. With that being said, it could become relevant in a future job, so I may continue to pursue it on my own. It was developed in a very reputable lab, and lots of people use it. The real reason PHB doesn't like the idea of using this particular algorithm is that his professional man-crush doesn't like it. PHB mentioned this in his response to me. (A former colleague had a WWDSD bracelet, a half-joking send-up to PHB's decision making process. DS is PHB's man-crush and is another prominent person in our field.)

I like the software company idea, Ozzie, and I like the suggested name as well. I'm sure Miles is far more skilled than I am in writing software that would work. Actually, we have multiple people on our board who are far more skilled than I am at writing software. We could start the CTN software company!

[ArkieDukie]

I had a conversation with a co-worker that I thought was pretty telling. She came into the office, laughing, after a meeting with PHB and a campus power player. PHB met with my co-worker before this meeting, and he flat-out told her that her job was to present ideas to this person and take any criticism so that PHB wouldn't look bad to the power player. As you may recall, one of my chief complaints about PHB during the whole mess with PPI and Minion was that he would throw me under the bus if PPI didn't like my results, even if I had done exactly what he told me to do. This revelation puts the many apparent 180 shifts regarding my data analysis in a whole new light.

It also leads me to believe that what I thought to be absent-mindedness from PHB is intentional. Successes are his; mistakes are the fault of the people beneath him. In other words, he is always good cop and the target du jour is bad cop (usually me). He has absolutely no problem whatsoever with throwing his employees under the bus to make himself look better. Is it just me, or is this wrong? Has anyone else had to deal with this type of behavior before? Granted, hopefully I won't have to deal with it for too much longer, but I'd really appreciate advice on how to best handle this during my remaining time in the lab. Is it something I should bring up in the letter I will be sending to Human Resources upon my departure, or will they view his behavior as acceptable?

ETA: It also lends some support to my theory about why PHB is so mad at me regarding the infamous manuscript. I still think I was being set up to be the fall guy in case anyone called BS on their work. Now it's squarely on him.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I had a conversation with a co-worker that I thought was pretty telling. She came into the office, laughing, after a meeting with PHB and a campus power player.

Do you like this coworker? Is she a friend? Are you going to clue her into the bigger picture with PHB and his SOP (leaving out your job search efforts at this time, of course)? Or just let her figure things out on her own until you are leaving?

[Lavabe]

I had a conversation with a co-worker that I thought was pretty telling. She came into the office, laughing, after a meeting with PHB and a campus power player. PHB met with my co-worker before this meeting, and he flat-out told her that her job was to present ideas to this person and take any criticism so that PHB wouldn't look bad to the power player. As you may recall, one of my chief complaints about PHB during the whole mess with PPI and Minion was that he would throw me under the bus if PPI didn't like my results, even if I had done exactly what he told me to do. This revelation puts the many apparent 180 shifts regarding my data analysis in a whole new light.

It also leads me to believe that what I thought to be absent-mindedness from PHB is intentional. Successes are his; mistakes are the fault of the people beneath him. In other words, he is always good cop and the target du jour is bad cop (usually me). He has absolutely no problem whatsoever with throwing his employees under the bus to make himself look better. Is it just me, or is this wrong? Has anyone else had to deal with this type of behavior before? Granted, hopefully I won't have to deal with it for too much longer, but I'd really appreciate advice on how to best handle this during my remaining time in the lab. Is it something I should bring up in the letter I will be sending to Human Resources upon my departure, or will they view his behavior as acceptable?

ETA: It also lends some support to my theory about why PHB is so mad at me regarding the infamous manuscript. I still think I was being set up to be the fall guy in case anyone called BS on their work. Now it's squarely on him.

It jibes, Arkie. Document things, but I wouldn't waste any more time on this. This was certainly one of the likely possibilities. In any case, just concentrate on the interview.