an interesting dilemma...

[lawgrad91]

You go, AD!

I must say that you and Windsor have inspired me to take on our office problem, Wayne the overpaid slacker pervert. Thanks for the motivation and the new way of thinking! I wish we had a "my hat's off to you" smilie.

You go, lawgrad!

Sounds like some good material for The Official WWWD Thread. I look forward to hearing about it!

When I have time (probably tomorrow) I will tell the tale of Office Pervert and PHB.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

All of the above!
Love, Ima

[OZZIE4DUKE]

AD, I have a question for you: What is your intent NOW? What is your perfect outcome now if you were writing the script? I assume "it" has changed since this "interesting dilemma" started, when you wanted to correct incorrect data from being published in a manuscript you were a part of, working in a place you expected to keep working at. Now, none of that is true, except you still (probably) want to keep the BS from being published. Do you want to "just" get the manuscript corrected? Do you want to get your boss in trouble/fired/disgraced/embarrassed? What about the Minion and PPI? If those people were gone, would you want any of their jobs if you were offered them? Stranger things have happened, you know!

I think you should answer these questions for yourself, even if you don't answer them in public, although I sure am curious in a general sense. Guess you could tell us in person when you come to a fka Brunchgate this fall! BTW, have you picked out a game yet? Countdown to
Crazieness/FSU?

[ArkieDukie]

More great stuff. This has undeniably been the most interesting and educational thread I have read in almost 2.5 years here and ~ 10 years OY. Continued best wishes, courage and support for you in your journey with this unbelievable morass.

Thanks, devildeac. The support of the fine folks here at CTN has certainly been a great help to me. I've gotten some fine advice, and y'all have certainly helped me keep my head screwed on straight.

I now consider myself to be a windsor-in-training. Seriously, we need official CTN WWWD bracelets or something.

[ArkieDukie]

You go, AD!

I must say that you and Windsor have inspired me to take on our office problem, Wayne the overpaid slacker pervert. Thanks for the motivation and the new way of thinking! I wish we had a "my hat's off to you" smilie.

You go, lawgrad!

Sounds like some good material for The Official WWWD Thread. I look forward to hearing about it!

When I have time (probably tomorrow) I will tell the tale of Office Pervert and PHB.

Good! Something to look forward to!

[ArkieDukie]

All of the above!
Love, Ima

Thanks, Ima!

[bluebutton]

I'm bouncing for you, but really I just want to give you a hug. I had a really crappy PI I worked for but could passively tell him to piss up a rope because I was a grad student a) that he wasn't paying and b) that wasn't in his department. Despite the fact that my career such as it is stands off of data collected on that project, it was a ridiculously demoralizing experience. So really I just want to give you a hug for enduring a ridiculous pile of crap.

[ArkieDukie]

AD, I have a question for you: What is your intent NOW? What is your perfect outcome now if you were writing the script? I assume "it" has changed since this "interesting dilemma" started, when you wanted to correct incorrect data from being published in a manuscript you were a part of, working in a place you expected to keep working at. Now, none of that is true, except you still (probably) want to keep the BS from being published. Do you want to "just" get the manuscript corrected? Do you want to get your boss in trouble/fired/disgraced/embarrassed? What about the Minion and PPI? If those people were gone, would you want any of their jobs if you were offered them? Stranger things have happened, you know!

I think you should answer these questions for yourself, even if you don't answer them in public, although I sure am curious in a general sense. Guess you could tell us in person when you come to a fka Brunchgate this fall! BTW, have you picked out a game yet? Countdown to
Crazieness/FSU?

Ozzie, I think the perfect outcome may have changed a bit. I do not want my name on the manuscript AT ALL, even if it is ultimately changed as a result of my actions. At this point, The Minion has done the bulk of the data analysis. If this paper is ultimately accepted to the journal they submitted it to, now the shoe is on the other foot: I would be incorrectly given credit for The Minion's work, and that's not really fair to her. Now, granted, I still think much of what she did is hooey, but there are others out there who think the approach she used is perfectly reasonable. I'll let her take the credit/blame for that.

The perfect outcome might be changed behavior on the part of the key players: my boss, Pushy PI, and The Minion. PPI and The Minion (ESPECIALLY The Minion) need to learn that it's not okay to falsify data in order to get the desired answer. Pushy PI needs to learn that The Minion is perfectly capable of falsifying data and she should not be taken at her word. If PPI no longer trusts The Minion implicitly, I'm good with that (assuming PPI wasn't in on her actions all along). My boss needs to learn to stand up to people like Pushy PI when they want to falsify data (assuming HE wasn't in on it all along). I'm sure that my boss has caught all sorts of grief from Pushy PI over this entire episode, which may explain why he sided with them at every turn. Of course, having a publication on the most prestigious journal in our field helps him, too. It's a big symbiotic circle of BS. Good thing I grew up on a farm and know how to wade through manure.

I've learned a lot as well. There are instances where I didn't handle things as well as I could've. Remembering windsor's "who's the asshole" rule will help in that regard in the future. Interestingly, this whole incident has helped me get my groove back. I used to be much less likely to take crap than I've become over the past several years. The last couple of days, especially, have reminded me of how good it feels to take control of a situation. I just stood up to a campus power player, AND I turned him in for (IMO) data falsification. Things may not be fun for a while, but I know that I did the right thing. I just have to remind myself of that on a fairly regular basis.

And, now that I have my groove back, I need to have a "Come to Jesus" chat with my boss and remind him that it's counterproductive to exclude me from meetings if he expects me to do my job effectively. Is it just me, or is it extremely juvenile to not include an employee in meetings in which work assignments are discussed, just because you're mad at them?

[ArkieDukie]

I'm bouncing for you, but really I just want to give you a hug. I had a really crappy PI I worked for but could passively tell him to piss up a rope because I was a grad student a) that he wasn't paying and b) that wasn't in his department. Despite the fact that my career such as it is stands off of data collected on that project, it was a ridiculously demoralizing experience. So really I just want to give you a hug for enduring a ridiculous pile of crap.

Thanks, bluebutton. Sorry you had to go through that experience. Sounds too similar, unfortunately.

My advice would be to take what you learned from that experience and use it in the future when you encounter a similar experience again. Unfortunately, if there's one thing I've learned, it's this: you will encounter a similar situation in the future. I often say that I've worked with the same people multiple times, but their names have changed. Hopefully I do a bit better in handling the problems each time.

[windsor]

Well Done! Well Done! Now that you've officially involved AI (or is it RI?) you've entered the next phase.

I would not be inclined to have a come to jesus meeting with your boss. Everything that can be documented should be at this point, and a face to face is hard to document. I would opt for an e-mail trail (remember that being excluded from meetings once you questioned the manuscript looks like retaliation and for right now that is exactly what you want it to look like!) I would e-mail boss after the meeting(s) you feel you should have attended and ask if there were any take aways from that meeting that would impact <insert work you do here>. That serves two purposes - it produces a trail that says 'I should have been in the meeting asshole' in a non confrontational way AND it serves as nice butt coverage against a bus toss if he tries to nail you for something you were not aware of because you weren't in the meeting. I expect after a couple of those e-mails he'll tell you 'if there is anything you need to know I"ll tell you' that's fine...once he does that you can stop e-mail (but do save the 'I'll tell you' communication).

Lawgrad - I'm ready to offer my sage advice anytime!

Can't wait to see what happens next!

[Lavabe]

The scientist in me says that the end goal is a confrontation between AI and the three folks.

The friend in me says that Goal #1 should be to find a job devoid of this situation. I am concerned how this is affecting your health some 6-8 months into this.

[Lavabe]

I would not be inclined to have a come to jesus meeting with your boss.

I think Arkie needs to bring to work one of windsor's Tervurens.
windsor: Have you trained them well for protecting people?

[windsor]

I would not be inclined to have a come to jesus meeting with your boss.

I think Arkie needs to bring to work one of windsor's Tervurens.
windsor: Have you trained them well for protecting people?

Wizard can generate 450 psi of bite force. The Boss doesn't have a bone he can't shatter. Usually the sound of the growl and the display of his substantial teeth is sufficent. Boss would probably wet himself.
(he growls like a wolf...rolling his nose up and curling lips off both upper and lower teeth...it damn near scares me)

[Lavabe]

I would not be inclined to have a come to jesus meeting with your boss.

I think Arkie needs to bring to work one of windsor's Tervurens.
windsor: Have you trained them well for protecting people?

Wizard can generate 450 psi of bite force. The Boss doesn't have a bone he can't shatter. Usually the sound of the growl and the display of his substantial teeth is sufficent. Boss would probably wet himself.
(he growls like a wolf...rolling his nose up and curling lips off both upper and lower teeth...it damn near scares me)

[Very Duke Blue]

Go AD and LG!

[ArkieDukie]

The scientist in me says that the end goal is a confrontation between AI and the three folks.

The friend in me says that Goal #1 should be to find a job devoid of this situation. I am concerned how this is affecting your health some 6-8 months into this.

I guess that the "change in behavior" I cited would be the end result of a confrontation between AI (or RI?) and the Terrible Three. I fully expect to be a pariah for the remainder of my time here.

The job search is gearing up again, now that I've officially turned them in. I'm staying home from work today to treat a not-so-fun summer cold, so I'm in the process of filling out some job apps. As for the health thing: well, yeah. Long-term stress of this type is not good.

[ArkieDukie]

I would not be inclined to have a come to jesus meeting with your boss.

I think Arkie needs to bring to work one of windsor's Tervurens.
windsor: Have you trained them well for protecting people?

Wizard can generate 450 psi of bite force. The Boss doesn't have a bone he can't shatter. Usually the sound of the growl and the display of his substantial teeth is sufficent. Boss would probably wet himself.
(he growls like a wolf...rolling his nose up and curling lips off both upper and lower teeth...it damn near scares me)

Ooh - I like this idea a lot!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

The scientist in me says that the end goal is a confrontation between AI and the three folks.

The friend in me says that Goal #1 should be to find a job devoid of this situation. I am concerned how this is affecting your health some 6-8 months into this.

I guess that the "change in behavior" I cited would be the end result of a confrontation between AI (or RI?) and the Terrible Three. I fully expect to be a pariah for the remainder of my time here.

The job search is gearing up again, now that I've officially turned them in. I'm staying home from work today to treat a not-so-fun summer cold, so I'm in the process of filling out some job apps. As for the health thing: well, yeah. Long-term stress of this type is not good.

But at least you have the stress-re-leaver of this thread, both in sharing it with us and getting all the sage advice that Windsor and Lavabe have been giving you! Were it not for this outlet, I imagine the stress would multiply exponentially.

[lawgrad91]

Can I borrow a dog, Windsor?

Merlin's attitude is mostly formed by his Lab forbears. When I lived in Stuart, he and I went to the nursing home every other week, at the suggestion of his vet, to visit the people there. He even liked the poor Alzheimer's lady who tried to ride him.

[windsor]

Can I borrow a dog, Windsor?

Merlin's attitude is mostly formed by his Lab forbears. When I lived in Stuart, he and I went to the nursing home every other week, at the suggestion of his vet, to visit the people there. He even liked the poor Alzheimer's lady who tried to ride him.

Ironicly Wizard spends time visiting a locked memory unit at the nursing home my mother in law was in...tervurens in addition to working 300-400 head of stock on the open range in Belgium were flock guardians as well - gentle with the stock, kill the coyote....emasculate AD's boss....

I loan him out when there is a need....