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I just saw on the television where William Safire, former political speechwriter and longtime columnist, has died. Perhaps in honor of his many years doing an English language column at the New York Times, we can have a fun discussion about the English language.

We can have one but I'm not sure it would be fun...

colchar wrote:We can have one but I'm not sure it would be fun...

Not with Wilson around! ;) He's too damn sharp, amongst others!!!! ;)

I have yet to have a teacher actually teach me grammar.
Most of what I know is from reading a lot. The rest is from trial and error.
I have serious problems with comma usage. I tend to put them in all sorts of places they don't belong.

CellR wrote:I have yet to have a teacher actually teach me grammar.
Most of what I know is from reading a lot. The rest is from trial and error.
I have serious problems with comma usage. I tend to put them in all sorts of places they don't belong.

Sorry I don't have a website ferr, dat! but I can point ya in the write direction! WILSON, CATHYCA, ...... ;) Math is universal, it doesn't require comas!!!!

CellR wrote:I have yet to have a teacher actually teach me grammar.
Most of what I know is from reading a lot. The rest is from trial and error.
I have serious problems with comma usage. I tend to put them in all sorts of places they don't belong.

I've been told that I have a "unique punctuation style!"

I beg to differ, an ordered pair (x,y)

or how about 1,000,000?

Lavabe wrote:I just saw on the television where William Safire, former political speechwriter and longtime columnist, has died. Perhaps in honor of his many years doing an English language column at the New York Times, we can have a fun discussion about the English language.

Or, I could stick an ice pick in my ear.

I can easily look past the hardcore right wing politics, but this guy did more to spread misinformation and prejudice about the use of the English language than possibly anyone else in the 20th century. Thank God no new columns of his will ever appear in newspapers.

That said, the people I know who know him say he was actually a decent and gentle human being.

throatybeard wrote:

Lavabe wrote:I just saw on the television where William Safire, former political speechwriter and longtime columnist, has died. Perhaps in honor of his many years doing an English language column at the New York Times, we can have a fun discussion about the English language.

Or, I could stick an ice pick in my ear.

.....

That said, the people I know who know him say he was actually a decent and gentle human being.

I wouldn't suggest that! THAT would be PAINFUL!!! Patience and tolerance is a good thang!!!! WE ALL ARE if YOU LOOK far enough!!!! ;)

Bostondevil wrote:I beg to differ, an ordered pair (x,y)

or how about 1,000,000?

Alright, got ME!!!! I wasn't trying to be as technical as the grammaratarians!!!! ;) (You are another besides DukePA to add to the list that I couldn't recall of the SHARPEES!!!!!) Now, time to play scrabble!!!! ;)

colchar wrote:We can have one but I'm not sure it would be fun...

I guess you're right...

You can have a fun discussion about the English language, just not one that involves Safire.

I'm trying to come up with a good analogy, Lavabe. It's like saying "Jesse Helms* just died. Let's have a fun conversation about race relations." The man has been a champion of language prejudice and linguistic discrimination.


* - George Wallace, Bull Connor, Strom Thurmond--insert your favorite.

throatybeard wrote:You can have a fun discussion about the English language, just not one that involves Safire.

I'm trying to come up with a good analogy, Lavabe. It's like saying "Jesse Helms* just died. Let's have a fun conversation about race relations." The man has been a champion of language prejudice and linguistic discrimination.


* - George Wallace, Bull Connor, Strom Thurmond--insert your favorite.

Oh... I just wondered if the word "nabob" would appear, or if some alliteration thread would arise.

Besides, we have a no-PPB thread unwritten rule. ;)

throatybeard wrote:You can have a fun discussion about the English language, just not one that involves Safire.

I'm trying to come up with a good analogy, Lavabe. It's like saying "Jesse Helms* just died. Let's have a fun conversation about race relations." The man has been a champion of language prejudice and linguistic discrimination.


* - George Wallace, Bull Connor, Strom Thurmond--insert your favorite.

Wow. You can gobsmack me with a ramekin because I never got that impression reading Safire's stuff. Either I'm a moron (no duh, just ask Mrs. Turk) or Safire operated with a subtlety of subversion that went over the head or under the radar of the general public.

Here's my take on a typical Safire column:

1. Observe trend or frequent usage of word or phrase in news stories / mass media.
2. Analyze origins of word / phrase.
3. Do some riffs comparing and contrasting with similar words / phrases.
4. Lather, rinse, repeat.

It always seemed harmless enough to me; a nice diversion on a Sunday morning to enjoy a bit of wordplay; a highbrow version of a Dave Barry column assembled of items sent in by 'alert readers'. I thought Safire's writing style was sometimes droll and rarely threatening or pompous. Of course, I am not in Throaty's line of work, and last night I slept in my van by the river, so what do I know? Dangnabbit, now I'm going to have to resist the temptation to go fishing around in the Safire column archive and see if I can rustle up some linguistic discrimination.

'When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.’
- Alice in Wonderland

This thread giving me a case of déjà vu . . .

OK, so much for resisting temptation. I noodled around last night on Safire because MNF bored me to tears and the Sillies imploded yet again. Their bats have gone stone cold and the bullpen is seriously leaking oil. I'll revise my assessment of a Safire column thusly:

1. Observe trend or frequent usage of word or phrase in news stories / mass media.
2. Analyze origins of word / phrase, once in a while missing a reference or getting something wrong.
3. Do some riffs comparing and contrasting with similar words / phrases.
4. Wrap up with a section where readers clean up #2 from prior weeks.
5. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I still don't get where "this guy did more to spread misinformation and prejudice about the use of the English language than possibly anyone else in the 20th century."