What would you do?

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Imagine you had a beautiful niece in her thirties diagnosed with an incurable, malignant tumor on her spine whose doctors in the Midwest advised her to make a trip to Sloan Kettering for treatment that could possibly make her more comfortable and extend her life. The hitch? She married into a family several years ago who belong to a small, cultish type congregation that has her husband convinced that diet and prayer will result in a miracle. They refuse all further medical solutions. She is in tremendous pain with the tumor growing daily and now cutting off blood supply to one leg. She is virtually cut off from her family who is crazy with anguish. They plead with her constantly as the situation worsens.

I know interventions can be done on behalf of minors, but what of someone grown and under the influence of a husband?

Advice anybody ?
Love, Ima

[DukePA]

I would have to say something while knowing that I probably won't succeed in getting through to her. If I didn't try, I would have a hard time living with myself. I would also limit my attempts because not only would they be futile, I wouldn't want to exacerbate a horrible situation.

[bjornolf]

It's a terrible situation, but I don't know what you can really do. If she's determined to listen to her husband and she's an adult, there's not much you can do. Does she have kids?

One of my friends has a friend whose tumor magically vanished halfway through her treatment. She considered it a miracle and quit the treatment, against her husband's, her doctor's, and her friends' urgings. As my radiologist friend pointed out, imaging at the time couldn't see tumors smaller than a certain size. A year later, the cancer came back much more virulent and widespread. She passed away, leaving three small children motherless.

My point is that if she has kids, maybe pointing out that she wouldn't want to risk orphaning them by refusing medical attention, would she? Play on her guilt. It's a lousy thing to do, but if it's the only way to get through to her, it would be worth it.

[windsor]

What a terrible situation. Unfortunately she is an adult, and unless she can be found incompetent to make her own decisions (and even at that - odds are pretty good that her husband would be appointed her guardian) there isn't anything you can do. An adult has the right to seek whatever treatment (or lack of treatment) they wish within the law. You can't make someone treat cancer...it is not all that uncommon for people with terminal cancer to say 'enough already' and request palliative care only. Even though that isn't the decision being made here ... she has chosen to believe a miracle is coming her way and however upsetting it is to the family it is her choice to make.

I don't think leaning on her is going to help...I wonder if she asked to go to Sloan Kettering would the husband take her? I do I think I would hammer at the husband for letting her suffer that way…actually I’d probably call him an f-ing murderer to his face….accomplishing nothing but perhaps making me feel better a minute.

[CathyCA]

She's in pain and he won't allow her to get treatment to alleviate the pain? I'd remind him of his wedding vows, if they used these, "to love her, comfort her, honor her, and keep her in sickness and in health. . ."

If he's going to pull the wacked out religion thing, throw it right back at him.

[wilson]

She's in pain and he won't allow her to get treatment to alleviate the pain? I'd remind him of his wedding vows, if they used these, "to love her, comfort her, honor her, and keep her in sickness and in health. . ."

If he's going to pull the wacked out religion thing, throw it right back at him.

Very well said, Cathy.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

You are all completely correct, of course. Just thought I'd run it by all of you "outside-the-box" thinkers. Fortunately there are no children involved. Having somebody in our family go off on a tangent and fall under the influence of one of these religious nut cases is the last thing I thought could ever happen to us. We're such a normal, boring bunch. There are closer family members who would have more influence than we every could, so I guess we just butt out. Our job, I suppose, is to support them through this with all the compassion we can muster.

thanks guys,
Ima

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

She's in pain and he won't allow her to get treatment to alleviate the pain? I'd remind him of his wedding vows, if they used these, "to love her, comfort her, honor her, and keep her in sickness and in health. . ."

If he's going to pull the wacked out religion thing, throw it right back at him.

When one spouse is in pain and suffering from a life threatening condition, when does the other spouse's refusal for standard medical treatment become spousal abuse?

[windsor]

She's in pain and he won't allow her to get treatment to alleviate the pain? I'd remind him of his wedding vows, if they used these, "to love her, comfort her, honor her, and keep her in sickness and in health. . ."

If he's going to pull the wacked out religion thing, throw it right back at him.

When one spouse is in pain and suffering from a life threatening condition, when does the other spouse's refusal for standard medical treatment become spousal abuse?

You could probably make that case (for abuse) if SHE was asking for treatment and it was being refused. I am under the impression she is 'going along' with her husband. In that case, it is not abuse in the legal sense. (I think...remembering I'm a geek not a lawyer!)

[windsor]

You are all completely correct, of course. Just thought I'd run it by all of you "outside-the-box" thinkers. Fortunately there are no children involved. Having somebody in our family go off on a tangent and fall under the influence of one of these religious nut cases is the last thing I thought could ever happen to us. We're such a normal, boring bunch. There are closer family members who would have more influence than we every could, so I guess we just butt out. Our job, I suppose, is to support them through this with all the compassion we can muster.

thanks guys,
Ima

Sadly, comforting the closer family members is probably the best thing you can do. I hope they find peace in their hearts that they have done all they can to sway her...so that when she does pass away they aren't dogged by guilt. I send them healing and comforting vibes.

[ArkieDukie]

Imagine you had a beautiful niece in her thirties diagnosed with an incurable, malignant tumor on her spine whose doctors in the Midwest advised her to make a trip to Sloan Kettering for treatment that could possibly make her more comfortable and extend her life. The hitch? She married into a family several years ago who belong to a small, cultish type congregation that has her husband convinced that diet and prayer will result in a miracle. They refuse all further medical solutions. She is in tremendous pain with the tumor growing daily and now cutting off blood supply to one leg. She is virtually cut off from her family who is crazy with anguish. They plead with her constantly as the situation worsens.

I know interventions can be done on behalf of minors, but what of someone grown and under the influence of a husband?

Advice anybody ?
Love, Ima

What a horrible situation, Ima! The strongest of vibes to your niece and to her family in an unthinkably terrible situation.

Unfortuately it is difficult to talk with people such as your cousin's husband. There's always a sense that it might be more productive to beat your head against the wall. For your cousin's husband and others of his ilk, I'm reminded of the joke about the man who falls out of the boat and is drowning, and he rejects 3 offers of help because "God is going to come and save him." After he dies and goes to heaven, the man asks God why He didn't save him. The answer is, "What more could I have done? I sent 3 people and you refused help from all of them!" I'm sure I messed it up, but hopefully you get the gist. I guess what I'm saying is that the doctors at Sloan Kettering could very well be the answer to their prayers. What's frustrating is that they likely wouldn't even entertain such an argument.

[Very Duke Blue]

Prayer, such as the Serenity Prayer, may help. So sad.