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What do you think this is, a place where sports fans congregate or something?

Sue71 wrote:What do you think this is, a place where sports fans congregate or something?

I think the conditional reinstatement is pretty goofy. My guess is he won't really be ready for game play until later in the season anyways. While I'm not a Vick supporter, I am a supporter of the justice system, and he served his time. What he did was rotten, and he'll always have that cloud hanging over him, but since he has paid his due in the eyes of the courts he shouldn't be prevented from doing his job in his career of choice. If any team is willing to take the chance on him, they should be fully allowed to do so.

CameronBornAndBred wrote:I think the conditional reinstatement is pretty goofy. My guess is he won't really be ready for game play until later in the season anyways. While I'm not a Vick supporter, I am a supporter of the justice system, and he served his time. What he did was rotten, and he'll always have that cloud hanging over him, but since he has paid his due in the eyes of the courts he shouldn't be prevented from doing his job in his career of choice. If any team is willing to take the chance on him, they should be fully allowed to do so.

Right on CBAB. That's pretty much the way I feel too. If the courts feel that he's served his time, then I believe he should have access to any career of his choosing. His crimes will hang over his head for a long time to come, and I'm pretty sure he's going to have a rough go at things.

I hope the Redskins aren't interested.

I'll take a slightly different take. I think a suspension on some level (4-8 games) would have been appropriate. Most of the commentary I've heard on this issue argues that Vick served his time for dog fighting and should be allowed to play. I agree with the first part. He served his time for dog fighting.

But Mr. Vick also engaged in an illegal gambling ring (big no-no in professional sports; even legal gambling is frowned on) and he lied to the commissioner and worked to impede the league's investigation into the matter. He hasn't served any time for those wrongs that he wouldn't have had to serve anyway. Because of the gambling and lying, I think a suspension is appropriate.

I also think that if the NFL believes that Vick will bring bad PR, it shouldn't let him play. The NFL is a business and nobody has a right to earn a living playing in it (despite what the bulk of commentators keep saying). If the NFL thinks it's bad business for Vick to be on the field, it shouldn't allow him to be on the field.

Miles wrote: I hope the Redskins aren't interested.

I'm hearing that they are. It might be the one thing that blasts all healthcare reform talk off the airwaves in this tiresome town for a while if Vick actually gets an offer from Snyder.

Vick has kept his mouth shut, has hardly said a word other than his apology. If he can pass the physicals and is in game shape, I think he deserves a shot. I was never a big fan, but I wouldn't mind seeing him eek out some kind of living for himself. He's surrounded by idiots and blood-sucking moochers, I doubt he has much of a chance of surviving them anyway.

It will be interesting to see what kind of reception he gets if he ever shows up to play in Cleveland. (Think Dog Pound)

All I know is that he's not a Falcon anymore, nor will he ever be (we are the only franchise that can unequivocally say that).
I'm bemused by the indignation from people who think he's "paid his debt," "deserves another chance," blah blah blah (nevermind that this comes from many of the same people who were questioning his humanity two years ago).
Paid his debt, yeah. Deserves another chance? Hardly. rmd said it best in arguing that, if the NFL believes him to be a detriment to its overall image, then it should decidedly not give him another shot.
Moreover, the notion that Vick made "a mistake" is pure fallacy. He made the grand mistake of believing that he could get away with whatever he pleased, and then followed it up with a series of outright crimes and other terrible decisions, ranging from wanton cruelty to widespread criminal enterprise to the more forgivable, but in the end equally damaging for him, offenses of financial profligacy and simply surrounding himself with a bunch of lowlifes.
Ordinary citizens who "pay their debt" continue to suffer the repercussions of their "mistakes" after release. Does anyone honestly think that, say, a former accountant convicted of whatever crime can just waltz into the top firm in the country and secure a job because he or she "deserves another chance"? Hardly.
I frankly don't give a shit what happens to him.

wilson wrote:All I know is that he's not a Falcon anymore, nor will he ever be (we are the only franchise that can unequivocally say that).
I'm bemused by the indignation from people who think he's "paid his debt," "deserves another chance," blah blah blah (nevermind that this comes from many of the same people who were questioning his humanity two years ago).
Paid his debt, yeah. Deserves another chance? Hardly. rmd said it best in arguing that, if the NFL believes him to be a detriment to its overall image, then it should decidedly not give him another shot.
Moreover, the notion that Vick made "a mistake" is pure fallacy. He made the grand mistake of believing that he could get away with whatever he pleased, and then followed it up with a series of outright crimes and other terrible decisions, ranging from wanton cruelty to widespread criminal enterprise to the more forgivable, but in the end equally damaging for him, offenses of financial profligacy and simply surrounding himself with a bunch of lowlifes.
Ordinary citizens who "pay their debt" continue to suffer the repercussions of their "mistakes" after release. Does anyone honestly think that, say, a former accountant convicted of whatever crime can just waltz into the top firm in the country and secure a job because he or she "deserves another chance"? Hardly.
I frankly don't give a shit what happens to him.

Curious: what makes Michael Vick an "unordinary" citizen?

Miles wrote: Curious: what makes Michael Vick an "unordinary" citizen?

Superstar professional athletes don't qualify as "ordinary" in my book.

wilson wrote:

Miles wrote: Curious: what makes Michael Vick an "unordinary" citizen?

Superstar professional athletes don't qualify as "ordinary" in my book.

True dat. But how is he different from other citizens? Do you believe that he deserves special treatment because he was a superstar athlete? That since he is a superstar athlete, he should be treated more harshly than the average Joe that commits the same crime?

If the NFL owners won't stand in the way of his reinstatement, then I have to feel like they've collectively made the decision that he does deserve a second chance. That leaves it up to the fans to let the NFL know they don't agree with their decision for reinstatement.

Miles wrote: True dat. But how is he different from other citizens? Do you believe that he deserves special treatment because he was a superstar athlete? That since he is a superstar athlete, he should be treated more harshly than the average Joe that commits the same crime?

This is precisely my point. I strongly believe that an "ordinary" citizen in his shoes, recently off of a two-year stint in prison, would not simply walk out of the slammer and be handed an opportunity to perform his/her former job at the very highest level. The consensus from the media, however, implies that Vick should be given this opportunity because he's "paid his debt to society." I believe that a regular Joe, after paying that debt, would still suffer an additional period of hardship in trying to get back to their former station in life, and I believe it is natural and "fair" (whatever the hell that even means here) that Vick should struggle similarly. It seems that many people have yet to consider that notion.

I just got back from the bush this morning, only to find this on page 1.

UGH!!

Would it be possible to sticky this thread to page 47 or some other obscure page number? I lean towards Wilson's side of the discussion on this one, but the mere mention of Mike/Michael Vick evokes the same feeling I get when wanting to watch figure skaters fall. Call it the train wreck mentality.

Let's save Page 1 for the real hard-hitting news discussion about Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, Kevin Federline, and Julio Franco.

Sorry... just wanted to share a little of my disappointment in seeing this story on Page 1.

wilson wrote:

Miles wrote: True dat. But how is he different from other citizens? Do you believe that he deserves special treatment because he was a superstar athlete? That since he is a superstar athlete, he should be treated more harshly than the average Joe that commits the same crime?

This is precisely my point. I strongly believe that an "ordinary" citizen in his shoes, recently off of a two-year stint in prison, would not simply walk out of the slammer and be handed an opportunity to perform his/her former job at the very highest level. The consensus from the media, however, implies that Vick should be given this opportunity because he's "paid his debt to society." I believe that a regular Joe, after paying that debt, would still suffer an additional period of hardship in trying to get back to their former station in life, and I believe it is natural and "fair" (whatever the hell that even means here) that Vick should struggle similarly. It seems that many people have yet to consider that notion.

I see your point wilson. Thanks for the discussion.

Word around town is that the Redskins are showing interest. I may have to to turn in my fan card if that happens. Ugh.

Lavabe wrote:I just got back from the bush this morning, only to find this on page 1.

UGH!!

Would it be possible to sticky this thread to page 47 or some other obscure page number? I lean towards Wilson's side of the discussion on this one, but the mere mention of Mike/Michael Vick evokes the same feeling I get when wanting to watch figure skaters fall. Call it the train wreck mentality.

Let's save Page 1 for the real hard-hitting news discussion about Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, Kevin Federline, and Julio Franco.

Sorry... just wanted to share a little of my disappointment in seeing this story on Page 1.

I'm not sure if this will ease your pain, but the story was just releases yesterday and there hasn't been enough activity on CTN to push it to page 2. I'll see if I can rectify that situation.