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Everybody's talking like this kid will automatically make whichever team he picks a national champion. I know he's great, but isn't he an almost guaranteed one and doner? Can a freshman point guard really do that for ANY team? I mean, most of the teams they're talking about will be basically rebuilding from scratch with a bunch of freshman and maybe even a new coach. Can you rely on that many freshman all panning out and gelling and developing championship caliber chemistry in just one year? It seems like his best shot for a NC would be at a place like Duke, where they already have established, talented upper classmen, and he'd be the final piece, as opposed to being just another new piece in an all new puzzle.

Am I crazy to think this? Is this kid just some basketball god/freak that you can stick out there with anybody and he'll bring home the hardware basically by himself?

bjornolf wrote:Everybody's talking like this kid will automatically make whichever team he picks a national champion. I know he's great, but isn't he an almost guaranteed one and doner? Can a freshman point guard really do that for ANY team? I mean, most of the teams they're talking about will be basically rebuilding from scratch with a bunch of freshman and maybe even a new coach. Can you rely on that many freshman all panning out and gelling and developing championship caliber chemistry in just one year? It seems like his best shot for a NC would be at a place like Duke, where they already have established, talented upper classmen, and he'd be the final piece, as opposed to being just another new piece in an all new puzzle.

Am I crazy to think this? Is this kid just some basketball god/freak that you can stick out there with anybody and he'll bring home the hardware basically by himself?

I've said on DBR a few times, I don't really care to get Wall. Being a stated one-and-done, it just rubs me the wrong way, seems we are selling our soul. On top of that, we haven't seen him play in college yet. He might be a miracle maker, he might not be. I'd feel better if he at least had an intention of staying for 2 years. If he's Duke bound, great, I'll cheer him on just like everyone wearing a Duke jersey. But I won't be crushed if he goes elsewhere.

bjornolf wrote:Everybody's talking like this kid will automatically make whichever team he picks a national champion. I know he's great, but isn't he an almost guaranteed one and doner? Can a freshman point guard really do that for ANY team? I mean, most of the teams they're talking about will be basically rebuilding from scratch with a bunch of freshman and maybe even a new coach. Can you rely on that many freshman all panning out and gelling and developing championship caliber chemistry in just one year? It seems like his best shot for a NC would be at a place like Duke, where they already have established, talented upper classmen, and he'd be the final piece, as opposed to being just another new piece in an all new puzzle.

Am I crazy to think this? Is this kid just some basketball god/freak that you can stick out there with anybody and he'll bring home the hardware basically by himself?

From all the ink I've read, he is one of the pieces we sorely lack for next year's team and a damn good one, too. Think Derrick Rose at Memphis last year. Obviously, no guarantee for a NC even if he comes to Duke. It would be nice to have a low post banger but, if JW comes, I think all the other pieces become much better in an up-tempo team and we'd have less of a need for that Brand or S. Williams type player then. And, if you really have any doubts, I've got a 2300+ post thread you can read on another board... ;)

CameronBornAndBred wrote:

bjornolf wrote:Everybody's talking like this kid will automatically make whichever team he picks a national champion. I know he's great, but isn't he an almost guaranteed one and doner? Can a freshman point guard really do that for ANY team? I mean, most of the teams they're talking about will be basically rebuilding from scratch with a bunch of freshman and maybe even a new coach. Can you rely on that many freshman all panning out and gelling and developing championship caliber chemistry in just one year? It seems like his best shot for a NC would be at a place like Duke, where they already have established, talented upper classmen, and he'd be the final piece, as opposed to being just another new piece in an all new puzzle.

Am I crazy to think this? Is this kid just some basketball god/freak that you can stick out there with anybody and he'll bring home the hardware basically by himself?

I've said on DBR a few times, I don't really care to get Wall. Being a stated one-and-done, it just rubs me the wrong way, seems we are selling our soul. On top of that, we haven't seen him play in college yet. He might be a miracle maker, he might not be. I'd feel better if he at least had an intention of staying for 2 years. If he's Duke bound, great, I'll cheer him on just like everyone wearing a Duke jersey. But I won't be crushed if he goes elsewhere.

There is a chance that the NBA CBA fails and there is a prolonged lock-out next year. If that is the case, the schools who get the elite players this year may have the luxury of having them for 2 years.

It would be horrible if he went to unc, especially after lawson tormented us for 3 years.

devildeac wrote:From all the ink I've read, he is one of the pieces we sorely lack for next year's team and a damn good one, too. Think Derrick Rose at Memphis last year. Obviously, no guarantee for a NC even if he comes to Duke. It would be nice to have a low post banger but, if JW comes, I think all the other pieces become much better in an up-tempo team and we'd have less of a need for that Brand or S. Williams type player then. And, if you really have any doubts, I've got a 2300+ post thread you can read on another board... ;)

No, no, I get that. But people seem to think that he'll make ANY team he goes to a favorite for the national title automatically, and I just can't imagine ANY freshman player doing that for ANY team, especially one like KY that's basically building an all-freshman team. They seem to think he's all the MJs (Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson and any others I've forgotten) all rolled into one, and I just think those are rather unrealistic expectations for anybody. Is he really THAT good? I mean, Ty Lawson was pretty amazing by his junior year, but I don't think he could have gotten the title without at least 75% of the guys around him.

bjornolf wrote:

devildeac wrote:From all the ink I've read, he is one of the pieces we sorely lack for next year's team and a damn good one, too. Think Derrick Rose at Memphis last year. Obviously, no guarantee for a NC even if he comes to Duke. It would be nice to have a low post banger but, if JW comes, I think all the other pieces become much better in an up-tempo team and we'd have less of a need for that Brand or S. Williams type player then. And, if you really have any doubts, I've got a 2300+ post thread you can read on another board... ;)

No, no, I get that. But people seem to think that he'll make ANY team he goes to a favorite for the national title automatically, and I just can't imagine ANY freshman player doing that for ANY team, especially one like KY that's basically building an all-freshman team. They seem to think he's all the MJs (Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson and any others I've forgotten) all rolled into one, and I just think those are rather unrealistic expectations for anybody. Is he really THAT good? I mean, Ty Lawson was pretty amazing by his junior year, but I don't think he could have gotten the title without at least 75% of the guys around him.

He apparently is that good from all the reports I've read. I'm not convinced he could make NCSU, Baylor or a couple of the other schools on his list into national champs. There would be a lot of frosh at UK but they have a good nucleus of upperclassmen, especially with Patterson and Meeks, if they stay.

At Duke, imagine Derrick Rose running the court with Scheyer on the wing as a shooter, Williams/Smith as slashers and Singler ready to shoot or drive the lane also. If MP1 or MP2 and Kelly are as ath-a-letic as claimed, I'd love to see them get the ball in transition, either in the corners or cutting to the hoop. It would be great to see ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZoubek cheering from the bench, too. (I think he's a great kid but he ain't got the hops or speed to run the court too much.)

I agree about the supporting cast also. I don't think the holes win the NC with BZ or LT as their center as sad as that is to say.

Absolutely, I could see him making a team like Duke into a contender. But, like I said, there he would be the final piece of a puzzle that's pretty well built already. It's some of the other schools on his list that I'm thinking about. Teams that just DON'T have most of the other pieces. An amazing point guard is a great asset to have, and certainly makes your team better, but he can't do it alone, ALNIMHO. ;)

Hasn't John Wall had an unfortunate run-in with the law recently?

CathyCA wrote:Hasn't John Wall had an unfortunate run-in with the law recently?

Yes. He and 2 other students, one male and one female, were arrested for breaking and entering a foreclosed house for sale about 3 miles from Word of God Academy. There was no forced entry and no items were missing from the house. Somebody thought he was checking out local real estate for purchase after he gets his 1st big NBA check. Others thought, well, what might 3 teenagers be doing in an unoccupied house at about 1 PM in the afternoon after their classes for the day were finished... :roll: ;)

I had heard it was foreclosed and empty, so there really wasn't much to steal in the first place. I tend to agree that they were probably looking for a place to fool around. Oops. I didn't think he got arrested though, did he? I thought the cop let him go with a warning. Did he get arrested and charges were dropped or something?

He got a citation. Like getting a speeding ticket.

CameronBornAndBred wrote:He got a citation. Like getting a speeding ticket.

that is correct.

devildeac wrote: At Duke, imagine Derrick Rose running the court with Scheyer on the wing as a shooter, Williams/Smith as slashers and Singler ready to shoot or drive the lane also. If MP1 or MP2 and Kelly are as ath-a-letic as claimed, I'd love to see them get the ball in transition, either in the corners or cutting to the hoop. It would be great to see ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZoubek cheering from the bench, too. (I think he's a great kid but he ain't got the hops or speed to run the court too much.)

I agree about the supporting cast also. I don't think the holes win the NC with BZ or LT as their center as sad as that is to say.

The Derrick Rose comparison is totally apt.
As for Zoubek, I understand the knock on him, but if a team with Luke Schenscher starting at center can go to the national title game, then so can a team with Brian Zoubek.

devildeac wrote: <snip> ... Patterson and Meeks, if they stay.

Patterson announced 3-4 nights ago that he will return to UK. He is on track to graduate in 3 years. Meeks has yet to announce.

Trust me. The Patterson announcement led the news that night.

wilson wrote:

devildeac wrote: At Duke, imagine Derrick Rose running the court with Scheyer on the wing as a shooter, Williams/Smith as slashers and Singler ready to shoot or drive the lane also. If MP1 or MP2 and Kelly are as ath-a-letic as claimed, I'd love to see them get the ball in transition, either in the corners or cutting to the hoop. It would be great to see ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZoubek cheering from the bench, too. (I think he's a great kid but he ain't got the hops or speed to run the court too much.)

I agree about the supporting cast also. I don't think the holes win the NC with BZ or LT as their center as sad as that is to say.

The Derrick Rose comparison is totally apt.
As for Zoubek, I understand the knock on him, but if a team with Luke Schenscher starting at center can go to the national title game, then so can a team with Brian Zoubek.

Good point. I said that at the beginning of last season that if we could get 10+ points, 10+ boards and 9-10 fouls from that position for the year, that we would have a good year. I wasn't that far off except when 'Nova out-ath-a-leted us in that loss. Toss in Shelden or Jason Williams and we might survive to play Pitt in the regional final. And quite possibly beat them.

To the original question, it depends on the team. Rose came to a highly talented team that needed a floor general and he led them to within a minute and a meltdown of a National Title. Mike Conley, Greg Oden, and Dequan Cook all led Ohio State to a final four their freshman year. And, although knocked out by Florida in the Sweet 16, Jason Williams led Duke to an ACC title and #1 seed in 2000. By 2001 he was the best player in America.

As nice as it would be for Duke to have a solid inside presence, our biggest weakness is at the point. We need someone who can penetrate defenses off the dribble and get scores when the shots aren't falling. Coach K's offense needs this in order to succeed. All indications are that Wall is such a player. A starting five of Wall, Smith, Williams, Singler, and [insert name of whatever big man you want], with Scheyer as the 6-man, would be as good as any in the country.

rockymtn devil wrote:To the original question, it depends on the team. Rose came to a highly talented team that needed a floor general and he led them to within a minute and a meltdown of a National Title. Mike Conley, Greg Oden, and Dequan Cook all led Ohio State to a final four their freshman year. And, although knocked out by Florida in the Sweet 16, Jason Williams led Duke to an ACC title and #1 seed in 2000. By 2001 he was the best player in America.

As nice as it would be for Duke to have a solid inside presence, our biggest weakness is at the point. We need someone who can penetrate defenses off the dribble and get scores when the shots aren't falling. Coach K's offense needs this in order to succeed. All indications are that Wall is such a player. A starting five of Wall, Smith, Williams, Singler, and [insert name of whatever big man you want], with Scheyer as the 6-man, would be as good as any in the country.

No way Jon doesn't start over Nolan, a junior, or Elliott, a sophomore, if Wall arrives. Let's speculate some more when we find out about Mr. Wall.

Now, for the big man, I'd still insert big Johnson... :roll: :lol:. My bet would be post-by-committee again.

devildeac wrote:

rockymtn devil wrote:To the original question, it depends on the team. Rose came to a highly talented team that needed a floor general and he led them to within a minute and a meltdown of a National Title. Mike Conley, Greg Oden, and Dequan Cook all led Ohio State to a final four their freshman year. And, although knocked out by Florida in the Sweet 16, Jason Williams led Duke to an ACC title and #1 seed in 2000. By 2001 he was the best player in America.

As nice as it would be for Duke to have a solid inside presence, our biggest weakness is at the point. We need someone who can penetrate defenses off the dribble and get scores when the shots aren't falling. Coach K's offense needs this in order to succeed. All indications are that Wall is such a player. A starting five of Wall, Smith, Williams, Singler, and [insert name of whatever big man you want], with Scheyer as the 6-man, would be as good as any in the country.

No way Jon doesn't start over Nolan, a junior, or Elliott, a sophomore, if Wall arrives. Let's speculate some more when we find out about Mr. Wall.

Now, for the big man, I'd still insert big Johnson... :roll: :lol:. My bet would be post-by-committee again.

Can we get a mod to delete this idiotic post and chastise the poster ;)

I think it depends on the style of play K wants to utilize. Assuming Wall is a Blue Devil next season, if K wants to continue to play the style we have for the past few seasons (more half-court; lots of jump shots) Jon will absolutely start. If he wants to run and limit half court sets (which would also limit the ability of other teams to zone us which has become kinda regular recently) both Nolan and Elliot are better suited. Either way, Jon is a key to the team. Even as a 6, I see him as essentially a starter. Duke would have that luxury.

rockymtn devil wrote:

devildeac wrote:

rockymtn devil wrote:To the original question, it depends on the team. Rose came to a highly talented team that needed a floor general and he led them to within a minute and a meltdown of a National Title. Mike Conley, Greg Oden, and Dequan Cook all led Ohio State to a final four their freshman year. And, although knocked out by Florida in the Sweet 16, Jason Williams led Duke to an ACC title and #1 seed in 2000. By 2001 he was the best player in America.

As nice as it would be for Duke to have a solid inside presence, our biggest weakness is at the point. We need someone who can penetrate defenses off the dribble and get scores when the shots aren't falling. Coach K's offense needs this in order to succeed. All indications are that Wall is such a player. A starting five of Wall, Smith, Williams, Singler, and [insert name of whatever big man you want], with Scheyer as the 6-man, would be as good as any in the country.

No way Jon doesn't start over Nolan, a junior, or Elliott, a sophomore, if Wall arrives. Let's speculate some more when we find out about Mr. Wall.

Now, for the big man, I'd still insert big Johnson... :roll: :lol:. My bet would be post-by-committee again.

Can we get a mod to delete this idiotic post and chastise the poster ;)

I think it depends on the style of play K wants to utilize. Assuming Wall is a Blue Devil next season, if K wants to continue to play the style we have for the past few seasons (more half-court; lots of jump shots) Jon will absolutely start. If he wants to run and limit half court sets (which would also limit the ability of other teams to zone us which has become kinda regular recently) both Nolan and Elliot are better suited. Either way, Jon is a key to the team. Even as a 6, I see him as essentially a starter. Duke would have that luxury.

Funny. ;)

I was actually trying to stay away from speculation which is about what 3/4 of the posters on the EKB like to do. If Wall is at Duke next year, I still see Jon starting (and no, I am not related to Jumbo nor do I have a man-crush on Jon :roll: :lol: ), as I think he also benefits greatly from a running/up-tempo offense, either filling the lanes or spotting up for open looks from beyond the arc as Wall is so quick to the rim that he would draw a lot of attention that way and allow the wings or mobile big men we will/should have to fill the lanes, too. I can see the other scenario also but still envision the senior captain with more minutes on the floor than Nolan or Elliott. If Wall goes elsewhere, I see us with another methodical 1/2 court team, thin in the backcourt but with advantage of seeing lots of Kyle at the "3" spot, assuming that MP1 improves, MP2 is as good or better than advertised, Lance develops a reliable 10-12 foot jump shot, Brian a nice baby/jump hook shot and Ryan Kelly is versatile enough to play the 3, 4 or 5 at times.

Looks like John Wall to Kentucky.

Discuss.