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Who would win? Two of our tallest, toughest presidents with lean bodies and mad reach. Who would win in a 12-Round boxing match and why?

FYI - They would both be fighting in their physical prime.

Discuss.

-Earl "don king" Jam

I'd have to go Washington, probably in KO, not TKO. He actually fought in war. He killed men. He probably went hand to hand with a few of them, especially given the guerilla tactics he and his men employed. He also survived the winter in Valley Forge. Those kind of things harden a man. He also spent most of his youth running around in the mountains with trappers and Native Americans.

Lincoln was a lawyer, and one who had a lot of health problems. He was never in the military, except of course as commander in chief. He was mentally tough, from going through everything he did, but I never saw him as physically tough. And a lot of what he went through that made him mentally tough (all the crap he dealt with as president) was LONG after his physical prime.

I think Washington destroys him in physical combat of any form. As you mentioned in your poll, though, Washington might get disqualified.

GW was the one with all of the battle experience, but Abe grew up in Illinois doing his homework on shovels by candlelight and wrestling bears for fun, so I think that while George would win, it would be a split decision.

CameronBornAndBred wrote:GW was the one with all of the battle experience, but Abe grew up in Illinois doing his homework on shovels by candlelight and wrestling bears for fun, so I think that while George would win, it would be a split decision.

Daniel Boone would beat both.

bjornolf wrote:I'd have to go Washington, probably in KO, not TKO. He actually fought in war. He killed men. He probably went hand to hand with a few of them, especially given the guerilla tactics he and his men employed. He also survived the winter in Valley Forge. Those kind of things harden a man. He also spent most of his youth running around in the mountains with trappers and Native Americans.

Lincoln was a lawyer, and one who had a lot of health problems. He was never in the military, except of course as commander in chief. He was mentally tough, from going through everything he did, but I never saw him as physically tough. And a lot of what he went through that made him mentally tough (all the crap he dealt with as president) was LONG after his physical prime.

I think Washington destroys him in physical combat of any form. As you mentioned in your poll, though, Washington might get disqualified.

I'm not sure how this fact affects his ability to fight or not.

Explain.

I voted for Lincoln in a split decision. I think he has the height and reach advantage, plus, he was a woodsman and swung axes.

OZZIE4DUKE wrote:I voted for Lincoln in a split decision. I think he has the height and reach advantage, plus, he was a woodsman and swung axes.

split decision...

swung axes...

Lincoln because...

he's a lumberjack and he's OK...

bjornolf wrote: I think Washington destroys him in physical combat of any form. As you mentioned in your poll, though, Washington might get disqualified.

The visual of this cracks me up!

-EarlJam

A quick bit of googling had George Washington at 6'2" and 220 lbs, Abraham Lincoln at just about 6'4" and 180 lbs. It may not be historically precise, but it's good enough for this discussion.

I don't think Lincoln's reach would be that much of a factor. It takes some natural skill and then serious training to get a stick figure to throw a decent punch with some weight behind it. Punching is a full body exercise, at Lincolon's proportions put him at a serious disadvantage. He was strong, he could swing an axe, but I wouldn't fear his punch. He served for a brief period in the militia, but never saw combat. I count this as a strike against him.

Washington on the other hand has a body much closer to the a body of a heavyweight boxer. He was built for the mechanics of throwing a punch. He's also only 2" shorter than Lincoln, which may or may not translate to advantage in reach. Add to that he actually saw combat, and I feel like the there is a huge advantage for Washington.

I have Washington in 8 rounds, KO. Sadly, as he hastily exits the ring to celebrate his victory, his foot gets caught on the top rope and he breaks his left leg in the fall.

OZZIE4DUKE wrote:I voted for Lincoln in a split decision. I think he has the height and reach advantage, plus, he was a woodsman and swung axes.

Was he a woodsman? I know that the internet can be horribly misinformed, but everything I saw said that he grew up doing farm work. Just because he was born in a log cabin doesn't make him a woodsman. If anything, it makes his dad or grandpa a woodsman. Not saying he wouldn't be strong from farm work, just that it's not the same mechanics as a "woodsman" or lumberjack.

As for the lawyer comment, I didn't mean it had anything to do with whether he could fight or not. It's just that being a lawyer doesn't necessarily make you an accomplished fighter. Washington spent those same years of his life running around in the woods fighting for his life, and he spent his younger years before running around in the mountains with fur trappers and Indians, learning to hunt and fight and track.

bjornolf wrote:

OZZIE4DUKE wrote:I voted for Lincoln in a split decision. I think he has the height and reach advantage, plus, he was a woodsman and swung axes.

Was he a woodsman? I know that the internet can be horribly misinformed, but everything I saw said that he grew up doing farm work. Just because he was born in a log cabin doesn't make him a woodsman. If anything, it makes his dad or grandpa a woodsman. Not saying he wouldn't be strong from farm work, just that it's not the same mechanics as a "woodsman" or lumberjack.

As for the lawyer comment, I didn't mean it had anything to do with whether he could fight or not. It's just that being a lawyer doesn't necessarily make you an accomplished fighter. Washington spent those same years of his life running around in the woods fighting for his life, and he spent his younger years before running around in the mountains with fur trappers and Indians, learning to hunt and fight and track.

I forget - who chopped down the cherry tree in the "I cannot tell a lie" episode? Honest Abe of George Washington? Crap, it was Georgie Boy. http://americanhistory.suite101.com/art ... cherrytree Guess I need to change my vote to Washington in a KO.

Washington's (presumed) medical history:

?? ???? diphtheria [15]
17 1749 malaria
19 1751 smallpox
19 1751 tuberculosis
30 1752 malaria
33 1755 dysentery (+)
35 1757 dysentery
35 1757 tuberculosis
39 1761 malaria (**)
39 1761 dysentery (**)
47 1779 quinsy
52 1784 malaria
57 1789 carbuncle
58 1790 pneumonia
59 1791 carbuncle
66 1798 malaria
67 1799 epiglottitis


Lincolns arms were as long as 'a man of 7' and 'While visiting troops in the field, days before his death, Lincoln picked up a heavy axe, chopped wood for several minutes, then held the axe straight out, horizontally, "without its even quivering." Several strong soldiers, tried to duplicate this feat, but could not'

He used an axe every day from 8 to about 23...and assuming the article below is remotely accurate, quite strong.

http://www.abrahamlincolnsclassroom.org ... 19&CRLI=96

I go with Lincoln.

Lincoln was born in the Land of the Lost. ;)

windsor wrote:Washington's (presumed) medical history:

17 1749 malaria
30 1752 malaria
39 1761 malaria (**)
52 1784 malaria
66 1798 malaria

Swinging an axe and throwing a punch require entire different mechanics.

From what I've read, it appears that Lincoln would be quite good at forming both hands into a fist, rotating his hips sideways as he brings the hands behind him, then raising his hands over his head, then swinging them down on top of George Washington's head. I bet he could accomplish this with great force and it would severely cripple Washington.

The problem with this approach is that it's pretty crappy boxing technique and it leaves you open for a quite some time. According to Counterpunch, Joe Calzaghe can throw an astounding nine punches per second. Sure, George ain't Joe, but I still bet the guy could sneak in a few punches while Abe was winding his haymaker.

Given the new reports of Abe's strengths, I'll update my previous estimate and take George in the first or second round with a KO.

Miles wrote:Swinging an axe and throwing a punch require entire different mechanics.

From what I've read, it appears that Lincoln would be quite good at forming both hands into a fist, rotating his hips sideways as he brings the hands behind him, then raising his hands over his head, then swinging them down on top of George Washington's head. I bet he could accomplish this with great force and it would severely cripple Washington.

The problem with this approach is that it's pretty crappy boxing technique and it leaves you open for a quite some time. According to Counterpunch, Joe Calzaghe can throw an astounding nine punches per second. Sure, George ain't Joe, but I still bet the guy could sneak in a few punches while Abe was winding his haymaker.

Given the new reports of Abe's strengths, I'll update my previous estimate and take George in the first or second round with a KO.

I doubt that punch is even legal. If it is, it wouldn't score points in the fight, as only blows with the front of the glove count. Not to mention that unless he used proper form, that's a great way to break your hand.

bjornolf wrote:

Miles wrote:Swinging an axe and throwing a punch require entire different mechanics.

From what I've read, it appears that Lincoln would be quite good at forming both hands into a fist, rotating his hips sideways as he brings the hands behind him, then raising his hands over his head, then swinging them down on top of George Washington's head. I bet he could accomplish this with great force and it would severely cripple Washington.

The problem with this approach is that it's pretty crappy boxing technique and it leaves you open for a quite some time. According to Counterpunch, Joe Calzaghe can throw an astounding nine punches per second. Sure, George ain't Joe, but I still bet the guy could sneak in a few punches while Abe was winding his haymaker.

Given the new reports of Abe's strengths, I'll update my previous estimate and take George in the first or second round with a KO.

I doubt that punch is even legal. If it is, it wouldn't score points in the fight, as only blows with the front of the glove count. Not to mention that unless he used proper form, that's a great way to break your hand.

Exactly! So it's a lousy technique, and it's illegal. This Lincoln guy sounds like a real loser.

windsor wrote:Washington's (presumed) medical history:

?? ???? diphtheria [15]
17 1749 malaria
19 1751 smallpox
19 1751 tuberculosis
30 1752 malaria
33 1755 dysentery (+)
35 1757 dysentery
35 1757 tuberculosis
39 1761 malaria (**)
39 1761 dysentery (**)
47 1779 quinsy
52 1784 malaria
57 1789 carbuncle
58 1790 pneumonia
59 1791 carbuncle
66 1798 malaria
67 1799 epiglottitis

Damn. Just..........damn. "Mr. Franklin would you like a sip of my tea?" "Um, no thanks George. Really. No thanks man. I'm cool."

-EJ

In the spirit of Earljam, perhaps a more important question is:
Which of the two presidents more often dropped his soap in the shower? ;)

I'm guessing that Lincoln dropped his soap more often than did Washington.