The Political Junkie Thread

[Phredd3]

Trump didn't create this. But 5 years ago I could have disagreements with friends and family. Not anymore. I don't know, maybe it's good to lance this boil and get it out there.

If we can't discuss politics, we can't have a democracy. A functioning democracy absolutely depends on disagreement, discussion, and compromise. Without those things from the members of the population, democracy will cease to exist.

In short, keep trying, and find as much common ground as you can, even if it is about trivial stuff. The more we find in common, the more we can disagree and stay civil.

[ArkieDukie]

Trump didn't create this. But 5 years ago I could have disagreements with friends and family. Not anymore. I don't know, maybe it's good to lance this boil and get it out there.

If we can't discuss politics, we can't have a democracy. A functioning democracy absolutely depends on disagreement, discussion, and compromise. Without those things from the members of the population, democracy will cease to exist.

In short, keep trying, and find as much common ground as you can, even if it is about trivial stuff. The more we find in common, the more we can disagree and stay civil.

I got a text yesterday from a cousin whose parents are really on the far right crazy train. An anthropologist friend of hers told her that, based on their Facebook posts, she should approach her parents as though they are in a cult. I’ve been saying that for a while. It’s so sad.

Maybe we all need to do some reading on that very issue. I know I do.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Trump didn't create this. But 5 years ago I could have disagreements with friends and family. Not anymore. I don't know, maybe it's good to lance this boil and get it out there.

If we can't discuss politics, we can't have a democracy. A functioning democracy absolutely depends on disagreement, discussion, and compromise. Without those things from the members of the population, democracy will cease to exist.

In short, keep trying, and find as much common ground as you can, even if it is about trivial stuff. The more we find in common, the more we can disagree and stay civil.

I got a text yesterday from a cousin whose parents are really on the far right crazy train. An anthropologist friend of hers told her that, based on their Facebook posts, she should approach her parents as though they are in a cult. I’ve been saying that for a while. It’s so sad.

Maybe we all need to do some reading on that very issue. I know I do.

I have been saying this for a while and totally agree - it is like trying to un-brainwash a cult. There are different degrees of brainwashing - those who fully believe this garbage vs. those who go along with it to achieve other goals. The latter group is less problematic than the first one. I have seen a few articles pop up talking about dealing with cult members, and hopefully it will be more widespread. I am by nature a compromiser (to a fault) but I think we have tried for way too long to compromise and humor them. Their views based on alternative facts are dangerous and destructive. This is not differing over what the minimum wage should be - that is healthy, normal debate. This is fundamental, moral core type issues. And as you know better than I, most of them can't be reasoned with, even if you tell them that 5+ years ago, their views were often completely different.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Wow..I really didn't expect this to happen. She wasn't totally booted (and I don't think she should be, voters still have to be respected), but Greene was essentially rendered moot by the body of her peers.

The House voted on Thursday to remove Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga., from her committee assignments after Republican leadership failed to punish the freshman congresswoman’s embrace of bizarre conspiracy theories and endorsement of violence against Democrats.

The resolution to strip Greene from her seats on the budget and the education and labor committees passed 230-199, with 11 House Republicans joining Democrats in voting for Greene’s removal.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/marjorie-tay ... 57090.html

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Wow..I really didn't expect this to happen. She wasn't totally booted (and I don't think she should be, voters still have to be respected), but Greene was essentially rendered moot by the body of her peers.

The House voted on Thursday to remove Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga., from her committee assignments after Republican leadership failed to punish the freshman congresswoman’s embrace of bizarre conspiracy theories and endorsement of violence against Democrats.

The resolution to strip Greene from her seats on the budget and the education and labor committees passed 230-199, with 11 House Republicans joining Democrats in voting for Greene’s removal.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/marjorie-tay ... 57090.html

Yes and no. The House voted to remove her from her committees. But it was basically the Democratic majority doing so. Her "peer" Republicans largely supported her. And she spent a lot of time lying and saying she didn't believe anything she said. A bunch of the Republican Senators including McConnell are saying how horrible she is because they don't have to actually vote on it. I feel much better having the majorities but it remains business as usual in DC - there really is no middle ground.

I was on Facebook tonight and a former colleague posted an article about this. He grew up in a small town in Michigan but went to Northwestern, lives in the NY metro-area and is a Democrat. Some guy from his hometown went on a multi-post rant with all of the extreme right talking points, but to an extreme. He did a lot of whataboutism with BLM, basically said that anyone who went to college is evil, etc. My former colleague and a few others pushed back some, but the guy just wouldn't stop. I don't know why he wasn't just cut off. I am fortunate to live in a bubble where most people largely agree with me, and even those who are pro-Trump have at least a bit of morality and generally know when to keep their mouths shut.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Some guy from his hometown went on a multi-post rant with all of the extreme right talking points, but to an extreme. He did a lot of whataboutism with BLM, basically said that anyone who went to college is evil, etc. My former colleague and a few others pushed back some, but the guy just wouldn't stop. I don't know why he wasn't just cut off.

It is impossible to debate a cultist, reasonably or otherwise. And it is a waste of time.

[Phredd3]

It is impossible to debate a cultist, reasonably or otherwise. And it is a waste of time.

Impossible to debate, yes. But not impossible to engage. I still encourage that at every opportunity, because it works. You won't "cure" someone, but you can at least make inroads. It takes work, but in the long run, it will be worth it.

[dudog]

Welcome to the new Republican Party. Remember when "new" was always paired with "and improved"?

A recent poll finds Greene with a plus 10 percentage-point favorability rating among Republicans, while Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.), who holds the third-highest position in the House GOP leadership and supported President Trump's impeachment, has a minus 28 percent rating. Cheney, the daughter of the former vice president and spokesperson for establishment conservatives, suddenly finds herself a minority within a minority while Greene dominates cable news.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... =Peregrine

[OPK]

Thoughts and prayers for Lou Dobbs, who got fired today.

[ArkieDukie]

Some guy from his hometown went on a multi-post rant with all of the extreme right talking points, but to an extreme. He did a lot of whataboutism with BLM, basically said that anyone who went to college is evil, etc. My former colleague and a few others pushed back some, but the guy just wouldn't stop. I don't know why he wasn't just cut off.

It is impossible to debate a cultist, reasonably or otherwise. And it is a waste of time.

YES. That point was, sadly, made even more clear to me today. I am administrator for a Facebook page for my extended family. It was set up with the intent for us to share important family news, pictures, stories, etc. Today my crazy cult member aunt posted a link to a 2 hr video explaining how the election was stolen from Trump. I deleted the post. She put it back. I deleted again and sent a PM in which I explained that I was trying to keep the page as a politics-free zone and would delete ANY political posts. She then posted ON THE FAMILY PAGE a complaint about being censored. I called her out for her post and re-stated my reasons for deleting said post. My uncle then jumped in and said that only a leftist would not call that censorship. Another cousin replied that the truth is not politics. I then deleted said post and wrote a post in which I stated the purpose of the page and said that I would not let it devolve into a political forum, because that wasn't the purpose of the page. I have since received 2 private messages, thanking me.

Aside from yet more confirmation that my aunt and uncle are fully indoctrinated, I also gained a new appreciation for anyone who dares to moderate and/or administer a site. Thank you, CB&B, for all you do.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Thoughts and prayers for Lou Dobbs, who got fired today.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Aside from yet more confirmation that my aunt and uncle are fully indoctrinated, I also gained a new appreciation for anyone who dares to moderate and/or administer a site. Thank you, CB&B, for all you do.

I don't do squat, other than remind people every now and then they can say fuck instead of fudge.

I'm at my mom and stepdad's this weekend. His demise into the Trumpian mindset has been long disturbing to watch. It was brought on by Obama, and he was clamoring for anyone that wasn't the black guy or Hillary. (He never said as much of course, but it was fairly obvious.)
Masters from Harvard business school, obviously a smart guy, and he's fallen so far deep down the rabbit hole that I have no doubt that he will never climb out. Thankfully we have avoided politics this visit, other than him telling me he's buying more gold this week and another gun and that we are all doomed to be oppressed under the thumb of socialism. (Not making any of that up.)

[dudog]

Aside from yet more confirmation that my aunt and uncle are fully indoctrinated, I also gained a new appreciation for anyone who dares to moderate and/or administer a site. Thank you, CB&B, for all you do.

I don't do squat, other than remind people every now and then they can say fuck instead of fudge.

I'm at my mom and stepdad's this weekend. His demise into the Trumpian mindset has been long disturbing to watch. It was brought on by Obama, and he was clamoring for anyone that wasn't the black guy or Hillary. (He never said as much of course, but it was fairly obvious.)
Masters from Harvard business school, obviously a smart guy, and he's fallen so far deep down the rabbit hole that I have no doubt that he will never climb out. Thankfully we have avoided politics this visit, other than him telling me he's buying more gold this week and another gun and that we are all doomed to be oppressed under the thumb of socialism. (Not making any of that up.)

Is that better or worse than the fickle finger of fate? Funny how Trump has made me look back fondly (?!?) on the good ol' days of George Wallace (plus I was only 6).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CsEf_roIpo

Clip is Rowan & Martin giving the fff to the Electoral College.

[ArkieDukie]

Aside from yet more confirmation that my aunt and uncle are fully indoctrinated, I also gained a new appreciation for anyone who dares to moderate and/or administer a site. Thank you, CB&B, for all you do.

I don't do squat, other than remind people every now and then they can say fuck instead of fudge.

I'm at my mom and stepdad's this weekend. His demise into the Trumpian mindset has been long disturbing to watch. It was brought on by Obama, and he was clamoring for anyone that wasn't the black guy or Hillary. (He never said as much of course, but it was fairly obvious.)
Masters from Harvard business school, obviously a smart guy, and he's fallen so far deep down the rabbit hole that I have no doubt that he will never climb out. Thankfully we have avoided politics this visit, other than him telling me he's buying more gold this week and another gun and that we are all doomed to be oppressed under the thumb of socialism. (Not making any of that up.)

Has he said yet that we are becoming Venezuela? If so, then I’ll know that your stepdad and my aunt and uncle are in the same cult.

[dudog]

Trump's Big Lie has cost us taxpayers over half a billion dollars...and counting.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... =Peregrine

Any way we can just have his supporters pay it?

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Trump's Big Lie has cost us taxpayers over half a billion dollars...and counting.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... =Peregrine

Any way we can just have his supporters pay it?

For all of the frivolous legal cases he brought, the judges should have ordered him to pay the other side's legal costs. It would have been a drop in the bucket but perhaps after paying some of those fees maybe he would have stopped bringing some of the cases. I know he had to pay for a few of the recounts.

I think the impeachment starts on Tuesday. Unfortunately, I think it will be a big nothingburger - to quote Simon and Garfunkel, "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

[dudog]

Trump's Big Lie has cost us taxpayers over half a billion dollars...and counting.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... =Peregrine

Any way we can just have his supporters pay it?

For all of the frivolous legal cases he brought, the judges should have ordered him to pay the other side's legal costs. It would have been a drop in the bucket but perhaps after paying some of those fees maybe he would have stopped bringing some of the cases. I know he had to pay for a few of the recounts.

I think the impeachment starts on Tuesday. Unfortunately, I think it will be a big nothingburger - to quote Simon and Garfunkel, "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

Unfortunately CnC, even that was not his money so it wouldn't have made a bit of difference. If it was his money it still wouldn't have made a difference, he would have refused to pay after the recount ended not in his favor.

And please, PLEASE do not associate Simon & Garfunkel's best song ever with that asshole. In fact, "Asshole" by Denis Leary, thought not artistically pleasing, is much more appropriate. And through the miracle of modern science, here it is with Trump:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP8WhJHx2lg

[ArkieDukie]

Trump's Big Lie has cost us taxpayers over half a billion dollars...and counting.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... =Peregrine

Any way we can just have his supporters pay it?

For all of the frivolous legal cases he brought, the judges should have ordered him to pay the other side's legal costs. It would have been a drop in the bucket but perhaps after paying some of those fees maybe he would have stopped bringing some of the cases. I know he had to pay for a few of the recounts.

I think the impeachment starts on Tuesday. Unfortunately, I think it will be a big nothingburger - to quote Simon and Garfunkel, "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

The big problem is this: his cult members believe all the lawsuits were justified and that the election was stolen from their leader via massive voter fraud. Nothing can be said to convince them otherwise. They do not believe the lawsuits were frivolous and think the judges who tossed the cases were Democrats. We know none of this is true, but they have all been convinced otherwise. All of this is to say that you will not hear a peep of complaint from any of them when it comes to legal fees. It's all incredibly frustrating.

And, I agree with your assessment of the impeachment. No amount of evidence will change his followers' minds, especially if he follows the "I rightfully won" strategy. His enablers in Congress are in lockstep and will vote to acquit. For some reason they are also in agreement with "he isn't in office and therefore cannot be impeached" strategy.

Why in the world didn't the Democrats include the phone call to GA in the articles of impeachment? I think it is a mistake, just as I thought their strategy in the first impeachment was a mistake. Trump is cunning enough to hide his tracks well in the Capitol insurrection. I'd be happy if the FBI found something good for the Democrats to use, but not counting on it. He is on tape trying to change votes in GA. Seems as though that is something that could not be ignored.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Trump's Big Lie has cost us taxpayers over half a billion dollars...and counting.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... =Peregrine

Any way we can just have his supporters pay it?

For all of the frivolous legal cases he brought, the judges should have ordered him to pay the other side's legal costs. It would have been a drop in the bucket but perhaps after paying some of those fees maybe he would have stopped bringing some of the cases. I know he had to pay for a few of the recounts.

I think the impeachment starts on Tuesday. Unfortunately, I think it will be a big nothingburger - to quote Simon and Garfunkel, "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

The big problem is this: his cult members believe all the lawsuits were justified and that the election was stolen from their leader via massive voter fraud. Nothing can be said to convince them otherwise. They do not believe the lawsuits were frivolous and think the judges who tossed the cases were Democrats. We know none of this is true, but they have all been convinced otherwise. All of this is to say that you will not hear a peep of complaint from any of them when it comes to legal fees. It's all incredibly frustrating.

And, I agree with your assessment of the impeachment. No amount of evidence will change his followers' minds, especially if he follows the "I rightfully won" strategy. His enablers in Congress are in lockstep and will vote to acquit. For some reason they are also in agreement with "he isn't in office and therefore cannot be impeached" strategy.

Why in the world didn't the Democrats include the phone call to GA in the articles of impeachment? I think it is a mistake, just as I thought their strategy in the first impeachment was a mistake. Trump is cunning enough to hide his tracks well in the Capitol insurrection. I'd be happy if the FBI found something good for the Democrats to use, but not counting on it. He is on tape trying to change votes in GA. Seems as though that is something that could not be ignored.

I think the GA call is mentioned, but only very briefly. I agree that the clear effort to discredit the election should have figured more prominently. Focusing mainly on inciting the riot is a tougher case to prove - if he had been physically leading the charge it would be a lot easier. Agree that they did a pretty lousy job on the first impeachment and this one is only slightly better. At least this time everyone will have to vote, but they will likely have safety in numbers.

There is a WSJ op-ed by a very prominent, very conservative lawyer named Chuck Cooper saying that contrary to what many Republicans are saying, the impeachment trial is constitutional (I read about it in the NY Times - I think the link is paywalled). I don't think that gets us anywhere - if this was a more traditional trial perhaps he could testify, but in this case, that wouldn't accomplish much.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/07/us/p ... hment.html

[CameronBornAndBred]

Why in the world didn't the Democrats include the phone call to GA in the articles of impeachment? I think it is a mistake, just as I thought their strategy in the first impeachment was a mistake. Trump is cunning enough to hide his tracks well in the Capitol insurrection. I'd be happy if the FBI found something good for the Democrats to use, but not counting on it. He is on tape trying to change votes in GA. Seems as though that is something that could not be ignored.

I'm fairly certain that we will be hearing more about that call from the Georgia AG. Just as with the incitement charges, the chances of the Senate convicting him on anything brought from that phone call are slim to none. In a true court of law, however...