The Political Junkie Thread

[OPK]

I do not understand why the FCC doesn’t fine them into oblivion.

And expose The Deep State?! No way!!!

{pitchfork emoji}

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Unfortunately, that dovetails with this dark and scary opinion piece from the New York Times about the current state of American politics. In short, it is exactly a party who will not censure its own members for bad behavior that could be the slippery slope of doom for democracy itself. I wish I thought the piece were wrong.

Thanks. These types of articles are coming out with increasing frequency. Unfortunately, this only seems to bother one group (the group that still reads the Times). So many Trump supporters/Republicans (the two are increasingly becoming interchangeable) really don't care and solely view things through the lens of "winning" and "losing" with everything they do focused on "sticking it to the libs." They have no morals. They have no rules. Anything is fair game if it helps them to win, because they think America is doomed with Democrats in charge.

I brought up some of these questions in this thread over a year ago and one formerly frequent poster through a major hissy fit and stormed off, never to post again, because he thought I was being melodramatic. He was also very upset with my characterizing Trump as mentally unstable, even though I think he is a mental health professional. But I digress.

Hopefully articles like this will get people to take the situation more seriously. I'm still not sure what the solution is but sitting back and ignoring it definitely is not the right one. Some type of reverse Kool-Aid to unbrainwash these people would be ideal, but I'm not holding my breath.

You nailed it, unfortunately. I’ve had the misfortune of listening to enough right wing propaganda (Faux News) to agree with all you are saying. I’ll go a step further and say they are lying for political gain. At Thanksgiving, their main talking points were: 1) the uptick in Covid cases is Pres Biden’s fault (not the fault of the people blocking mask mandates and vaccine mandates), 2) chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine are effective Covid treatments that are being blocked because 45 recommended them, 3) Harris and Biden both stated in the debates that they wouldn’t take treatments that 45 recommended (comments taken out of context and repeated ad nauseum), 4) vaccine and mask mandates are unconstitutional; it’s the Democrats trying to control people. Those are just the ones I remember.

On the talking point about the mandates, some Republican legislator said, in a very sanctimonious way, that Pres Biden just needs to explain to people why these mandates are important and encourage people to follow them, rather than forcing people. I had to get up and leave the room. He has only been doing that since before he even took office.

I pray for the kool-aid you mentioned. My dad, who used to be somewhat reasonable, believes everything they say and is pretty much addicted to the propaganda spreaders. Nothing I can say makes a difference. I do not understand why the FCC doesn’t fine them into oblivion.

I cannot imagine going through what you do with your dad - that must be incredibly difficult.

I theoretically agree with you on the FCC. Ironically, I made a similar comment on DBR this morning, shortly after yours (I hadn't seen yours yet - great minds think alike!). My only hesitation about this is my fear of what the Republicans will do if they regain control (which is not unlikely). They will say that the Democrats weaponized the FCC so they are going to use the FCC to go after the "mainstream media." And they will be ruthless about it. In all efforts to bring them down, we have to be very aware of what they might do when in control. This is why the Democrats are hesitant to kill the filibuster.

That being said, I am hoping some of the legal cases hurry up, such as Dominion (mentioned above), the cases being brought in Congress, and the NY and GA cases against Trump. The Republicans are very clearly stalling the congressional cases in hopes of taking control next year.

It would also be nice if advertisers showed their distaste for Fox by refusing to advertise. I think a few have done so, but not many, and it seems like those who do so do it fairly quietly.

In some good news, I just read a NYT article about how Biden is confirming judges at a very rapid pace. It is mainly Democrats replacing Democrats, but that is better than Republicans replacing Democrats. Again, if the Dems lose congress next year, this will all grind to a halt, so it is great that they are doing so much. As a moderate, I don't love his obsession with identity politics, but it is still much, much better than the alternative.

[ArkieDukie]

I cannot imagine going through what you do with your dad - that must be incredibly difficult.

I theoretically agree with you on the FCC. Ironically, I made a similar comment on DBR this morning, shortly after yours (I hadn't seen yours yet - great minds think alike!). My only hesitation about this is my fear of what the Republicans will do if they regain control (which is not unlikely). They will say that the Democrats weaponized the FCC so they are going to use the FCC to go after the "mainstream media." And they will be ruthless about it. In all efforts to bring them down, we have to be very aware of what they might do when in control. This is why the Democrats are hesitant to kill the filibuster.

That being said, I am hoping some of the legal cases hurry up, such as Dominion (mentioned above), the cases being brought in Congress, and the NY and GA cases against Trump. The Republicans are very clearly stalling the congressional cases in hopes of taking control next year.

It would also be nice if advertisers showed their distaste for Fox by refusing to advertise. I think a few have done so, but not many, and it seems like those who do so do it fairly quietly.

In some good news, I just read a NYT article about how Biden is confirming judges at a very rapid pace. It is mainly Democrats replacing Democrats, but that is better than Republicans replacing Democrats. Again, if the Dems lose congress next year, this will all grind to a halt, so it is great that they are doing so much. As a moderate, I don't love his obsession with identity politics, but it is still much, much better than the alternative.

Your point about the FCC is a good one, and one I hadn’t thought of. It is true that the republicans have a very authoritarian slant and would abuse the FCC if given the power. Unfortunately, Fox is their propaganda arm. The disinformation they spread is, frankly, scary. They take comments out of context and pontificate endlessly about what the comment meant. Usually that involves a lot of fear mongering.

Our best hope is more judges appointed by Biden, and I’m not sure how much longer he will be able to get his appointees through. At this point, I don’t think Biden will be able to appoint a justice to the Supreme Court. Even if someone does step down now, McConnell will block Biden’s nominee. I cannot understand how McConnell gets away with his (to me) blatantly unconstitutional actions. 45 was able to appoint so many (unqualified) judges because of McConnell’s refusal to even take Obama’s nominees to the House.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Kanye West's failed 2020 presidential campaign was secretly run by a number of Republican operatives who were trying to get then-President Donald Trump re-elected, according to an investigation from the Daily Beast.

Federal disclosure documents reviewed by the Daily Beast appear to show that West, who ran as a third-party candidate in the 2020 election, received millions of dollars in services from GOP operatives.

[sarcasm] How shocking! [/sarcasm]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kanye-wests- ... 24777.html

[Phredd3]

This is a New York Times article, so behind a paywall, but the title is "Manchin Pulls Support From Biden’s Social Policy Bill, Imperiling Its Passage".

The problem is all in the title: The Times appears to blame Manchin. The article makes it clear that House progressives really are explicitly blaming Manchin. Meanwhile, there are 50 Senators with an "R" behind their name who continuously and persistently vote "NO" on everything. Why are the Democrats not emphasizing that? Stop turning on a moderate from a very red state and deal with the larger political issue. The problem isn't Manchin. The problem is the 50.

Why do Democrats just refuse to recognize that and message the bejeezus out of it?

It just frustrates the heck out of me.

[OPK]

This is a New York Times article, so behind a paywall, but the title is "Manchin Pulls Support From Biden’s Social Policy Bill, Imperiling Its Passage".

The problem is all in the title: The Times appears to blame Manchin. The article makes it clear that House progressives really are explicitly blaming Manchin. Meanwhile, there are 50 Senators with an "R" behind their name who continuously and persistently vote "NO" on everything. Why are the Democrats not emphasizing that? Stop turning on a moderate from a very red state and deal with the larger political issue. The problem isn't Manchin. The problem is the 50.

Why do Democrats just refuse to recognize that and message the bejeezus out of it?

It just frustrates the heck out of me.

Agreed.

If you are a Dem, Manchin is not the problem. He is as progressive as a guy from WV is ever gonna be (Trump won the state by something like 40 points). The problem is the NC Dem who couldn’t keep his pecker in his pants, and the ME Dem who should have beaten Susan Collins. If the Senate is 52-48, all these things pass and Manchin still gets to vote the way he needs to rep his state.

But the Dems lost those two races, letting McConnell do what he does best — do a donkey squat and just say “no.”

[CrazyNotCrazie]

This is a New York Times article, so behind a paywall, but the title is "Manchin Pulls Support From Biden’s Social Policy Bill, Imperiling Its Passage".

The problem is all in the title: The Times appears to blame Manchin. The article makes it clear that House progressives really are explicitly blaming Manchin. Meanwhile, there are 50 Senators with an "R" behind their name who continuously and persistently vote "NO" on everything. Why are the Democrats not emphasizing that? Stop turning on a moderate from a very red state and deal with the larger political issue. The problem isn't Manchin. The problem is the 50.

Why do Democrats just refuse to recognize that and message the bejeezus out of it?

It just frustrates the heck out of me.

Agreed.

If you are a Dem, Manchin is not the problem. He is as progressive as a guy from WV is ever gonna be (Trump won the state by something like 40 points). The problem is the NC Dem who couldn’t keep his pecker in his pants, and the ME Dem who should have beaten Susan Collins. If the Senate is 52-48, all these things pass and Manchin still gets to vote the way he needs to rep his state.

But the Dems lost those two races, letting McConnell do what he does best — do a donkey squat and just say “no.”

Exactly. The NC guy particularly pisses me off as he had it won. Leave it to a Tar Heel to screw things up. If I recall the former governor of Montana seemed like a strong candidate and he also got nowhere. Of course, I guess the flip side of it is that the R's completely botched Georgia, so you win some, you lose some. And hopefully they will do so again.

However, there are a few allegedly moderate R's who should be playing ball. Like Collins, Murkowski, Portman (who is retiring so should care about McConnell or Trump), and Romney. Is there nothing in this bill that is acceptable to them? I still don't understand why this is being presented as this huge "all or nothing" bill?

I think that what angers the Dems so much about Manchin is that he basically said "give me the original plan, let me edit it, and then I will support it." They basically did that then he flipped on them. I recently saw him referred to as President Manchin as he is basically making all the calls. And I think it is getting to his head.

[OPK]

However, there are a few allegedly moderate R's who should be playing ball. Like Collins, Murkowski, Portman (who is retiring so should care about McConnell or Trump), and Romney. Is there nothing in this bill that is acceptable to them? I still don't understand why this is being presented as this huge "all or nothing" bill?

The bill was a Dem wish list, and I can’t see any R voting for it. Even if they like some of it, voting for that package would be political suicide. And the cost is very large no matter whether one looks at the face-value price or the CBO ten-year price. Even though the R’s are situational hypocrites when it comes to the debt — it only seems to matter to them when a Dem is in the White House — it doesn’t mean that the debt is not a problem. And, with inflationary pressures, dropping a multi-trillion dollar sugar rush in the economy can rightfully give conservatives pause.

I think it was Manchin today who said it best — the Dem leaders write bills like they think they have 55 Dems in the Senate. I still think a bill will get done next year, but it will be fewer programs for 10 years instead of many programs with some allegedly lasting for only a year or two.

As for Manchin’s about face, it appears that he and Biden had a non-aggression pact during negotiations but some WH staffers breached it by calling Manchin out late last week. At least, that’s the way Manchin took it so he clapped back publicly. Things will cool. Manchin even floated today that he favors a child tax credit — but limited to people making less than $200k and who are working. Putting aside the merits or demerits of that proposal, I think it shows that Manchin is open to a smaller bill.

[Phredd3]

The bill was a Dem wish list, and I can’t see any R voting for it. Even if they like some of it, voting for that package would be political suicide.

I agree with this, but my problem with the Dems is that they accept this as a given. I'd like them to at least make the choice difficult. Especially for Pat Toomey and Ron Johnson, who are Republican Senators in blue-ish states. Toomey was just elected, so you can't put much direct electoral pressure on him. But the guy voted to convict Trump. There has to be some kind of deal you can strike with him. Ron Johnson is a nut case, but he is up for re-election in 2022. If he won't play ball, make him fear for his job. Cut Johnson away from the Republican herd, and make him a real focus of your messaging.

But you can't do that if you're busy pointing fingers at Joe Manchin.

[dudog]

This a pretty scary article, kinda long but I think worth your time. There are too many relevant passages to give you just a sample or two, and they are better in context anyway.

"America is now in fascism’s legal phase"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/am ... li=BBnb7Kz

[Phredd3]

This a pretty scary article, kinda long but I think worth your time. There are too many relevant passages to give you just a sample or two, and they are better in context anyway.

"America is now in fascism’s legal phase"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/am ... li=BBnb7Kz

Well, damn. That was depressing. I'm swearing off political articles for the next couple of days. They are incompatible with the spirit of the season. I'll at least pretend all is well for a little while. There will be time to deal with the realities later.

[dudog]

These people are so despicable.

"Parent uses right-wing slur during Biden call with NORAD Santa tracker"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBorjTa

Yeah, and Merry Christmas to you, too. SMH

[ArkieDukie]

https://apple.news/Ao9kVmGM9TXqu0Zfc1uXshg

This is a long, and somewhat scary, read about TX AG Ken Paxton. I knew the TX state government was extremely corrupt, but I didn’t really understand the reason why. I also knew Paxton was bad but learned he is even worse than I thought. The article also discusses his actions toward decertification of the 2020 election.

Have I mentioned lately how glad I am that I no longer live in TX?

[OPK]

Interesting polling as we approach the one-year anniversary of the Jan. 6th violence at the Capitol:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/january-6- ... poll-2022/

[dudog]

As usual, Frontline on PBS does an excellent job reporting on right-wingers and the insurrection. Wonder if I can slip this link into my PBS-Music thread OY.

https://video.wucftv.org/video/american ... on-ozor8y/

On yet another down note, it appears I'm going to have to take my collection of Hawai'ian shirts to the Humane Society Thrift Store. Good for the animals, but then I think about who would be buying them and wonder if I should. At least these people like to dress up so you can see them coming. What's that old Irish blessing about God turning their ankles so we'll know them by their limping?

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I don't know why I depress myself by reading all of these articles, but coming off a Duke win, I was in a better place for it. This is a long, really interesting article about a lot of problems that could arise in the next few years and how the country could fall apart. It is interesting that he thinks that most of this is tied to Trump and if it was another candidate, it is less likely to be a problem. Which is why it is so important to put Trump behind bars.

I do not agree with him at the end of the article - if Republicans manage to put themselves in the White House but there is skepticism about whether it is legit, the country will not just peacefully split up. Trump in particular, as well as some of their other leaders, are very vindictive, and will make life hell for blue states and all who have opposed them. And by packing the courts, they will be able to get away with it.

I have been publicly worrying about this for several years and I know there are those who think I am being a worry wart, but in light of the anniversary of January 6, there have been a lot of articles expressing the same concerns. They are legit. And I don't know what we are going to do about it.

https://www.businessinsider.com/timothy ... ign-2022-1#

[dudog]

Going for the insanity defense:

The former Trump lawyer Jenna Ellis has a theory about why she was subpoenaed by the January 6 panel investigating the Capitol riot. "The committee is just mad they can't date me," Ellis tweeted on Wednesday.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBnb7Kz

[CameronBornAndBred]

Going for the insanity defense:

The former Trump lawyer Jenna Ellis has a theory about why she was subpoenaed by the January 6 panel investigating the Capitol riot. "The committee is just mad they can't date me," Ellis tweeted on Wednesday.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBnb7Kz

[Phredd3]

Going for the insanity defense:

The former Trump lawyer Jenna Ellis has a theory about why she was subpoenaed by the January 6 panel investigating the Capitol riot. "The committee is just mad they can't date me," Ellis tweeted on Wednesday.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBnb7Kz

I guess they're mad they can't date Rudy, Sidney, and Boris, too.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Going for the insanity defense:

The former Trump lawyer Jenna Ellis has a theory about why she was subpoenaed by the January 6 panel investigating the Capitol riot. "The committee is just mad they can't date me," Ellis tweeted on Wednesday.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBnb7Kz

She looks like exactly Trump's type. They can't date her but Donald could. It is amazing the hack lawyers Trump works with, and even more amazing that these morons passed the bar exam. And I'm guessing they are so dumb that he ends up stiffing most of them on their payments because they aren't smart enough to have intelligent, enforceable contracts for their work.