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You may or may not remember this, but in the "Interesting Dilemma" thread I posted my dream scenario: PHB would forget about why he fired me and realize my importance to the lab just before my departure. Well, I think that may have come to pass. Over the past several days, I have been helping PHB do some background work relating to the big cancer grant. Today I found something for them to follow up on that could really be big and also suggested another avenue to pursue. PHB thought both were very good ideas.

Immediately following the second suggestion, PHB made a counter-offer. He offered my own lab space and use of the lab's brand spanking new, not yet installed instrument, to pursue the research that we've been working on for the last several days. He also offered the services of a grad student and a technician. This came with the guarantee of another 5 years of employment. He told me to think about it before giving an answer.

I have not yet given my answer (not just no; HELL NO!). In a way, the offer is tempting, because I wouldn't have to move and I'd be involved in worthwhile, high profile project. However, I already signed the other offer. In my mind, that means I gave my word, and I do not back out on such things lightly. Even if I hadn't already signed the offer, the answer would be the same. PHB has already shown that I am nothing more than political capital, and I will be thrown under the bus at the first available opportunity if it is politically expedient for him to do so. Why would I start my own lab under someone who has this particular tendency? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Of course, I won't tell him that. I'll be diplomatic about saying "thanks, but no thanks." In the brilliant and immortal words of windsor, "Thou shalt burn no bridges before their time." I am going out the door on my terms.

You are a wise woman.

Almost forgot the

Arkie Dukie!!!!

DukePA wrote: Arkie Dukie!!!!

WooHoo AD! Well thought out and well "to be done"!

DukePA wrote: Arkie Dukie!!!!

Double what DukePA said.

Walk away as a continuing collaborator and colleague. It'll benefit the new lab.

I am in full agreement. You have signed an offer - more than that, an offer for a positon that was esssentially created for you. To decline now for a reason other than a catastrophic family emergency would tarnish your name. Word gets out, and you would have a tough time finding antoher gig down the road.

Tell PHB you appreciate his generous offer, and are tempted but that given your diminished role in the lab in recent months you feel your career is best served by pursuing this new opportunity. Offer to collaberate if that is possible. Smile. Leave.
Allow yourself a mental "eat shit and die asshole".

Laugh all the way to Texas.

I just got PHB's offer in writing: immediate promotion to a tenure track position with a 10% raise. Lab space with a view of Forest Park. Two brand new, state of the art instruments. My very own postdoctoc and tech. 20-30% time for my own research. Responsibilities including method development for Cancer project. Wow.

ArkieDukie wrote:I just got PHB's offer in writing: immediate promotion to a tenure track position with a 10% raise. Lab space with a view of Forest Park. Two brand new, state of the art instruments. My very own postdoctoc and tech. 20-30% time for my own research. Responsibilities including method development for Cancer project. Wow.

and you will still be doing the minions bidding...and they will still draw the curve and then make the data points fit it.

windsor wrote:

ArkieDukie wrote:I just got PHB's offer in writing: immediate promotion to a tenure track position with a 10% raise. Lab space with a view of Forest Park. Two brand new, state of the art instruments. My very own postdoctoc and tech. 20-30% time for my own research. Responsibilities including method development for Cancer project. Wow.

and you will still be doing the minions bidding...and they will still draw the curve and then make the data points fit it.

Don't worry; that fact has not been lost on me. Remember he promised me a state-of-the-art instrument once. It became NuBarbie's state-of-the-art instrument. Although the offer is somewhat tempting, a leopard does not change his spots, and PHB does not wholly understand my motivation for leaving. I've seen what it takes to get ahead in this place, and it's not for me.

ArkieDukie wrote:I just got PHB's offer in writing: immediate promotion to a tenure track position with a 10% raise. Lab space with a view of Forest Park. Two brand new, state of the art instruments. My very own postdoctoc and tech. 20-30% time for my own research. Responsibilities including method development for Cancer project. Wow.

And why didn't he make this offer to you 10 days ago? Because ten days ago he didn't really think he needed to, but obviously could have. He's lost his unrestricted free agent, who was also his MVP, but he didn't personally like for some reason, and his own feelings got in the way of his team winning. Being him sucks.

Doesn't mean that he won't come back to you with an even BETTER offer. Which you might have to consider and eventually accept. Bobby Cremmins left GT for SC, then recanted the next day, saying he just couldn't leave his players. No one, other than SC fans, held that against him for very long. Stuff happens. The folks in Texas only put a month's work into getting you; not like they've moved mountains forever. They'll get over it. But then again, you've have to work for PHB. Never mind...

Do not be swayed by his fancy promises. If you accepted his offer, you would still be working for HIM, and you would still deal with the minion, Pushy PI, NuBarbie and the others.

Thank PHB for the very kind offer, but do not accept it.

Tell him it's been your dream to move to Texas. Do not ever let him know the real reason you are leaving. You may need his assistance/endorsement/recommendation some time in the future.

CathyCA wrote:Do not be swayed by his fancy promises. If you accepted his offer, you would still be working for HIM, and you would still deal with the minion, Pushy PI, NuBarbie and the others.

Thank PHB for the very kind offer, but do not accept it.

Tell him it's been your dream to move to Texas. Do not ever let him know the real reason you are leaving. You may need his assistance/endorsement/recommendation some time in the future.

And if you ever find yourself doubting your resolve to go to Texas (or at least, GTHO), re-read your thread that started this all.

I would suggest, if you have a chance to do an exit interview with an HR type person (not sure this is done in academia?), that you let them know exactly why you're leaving. Mistreatment & favoritism by PHB. Questionable research manipulation that prompted a report to your ethics oversight team. Interoffice politics getting in the way of actual, meaningful work.

If the powers-that-be bother to ask you your reasons for leaving, it's some indication they may want to improve, so responding truthfully would at least give them that opportunity.

I can't really add on anything to what windsor said.

Your mental and physical health rules. Thanks for the offer. No thanks.

Dear PHB,
Yo Cadillac lab sho is purty, but dat don't stand fo' shit so long as I can't always be de one mappin' out de trip. Too little, too late. Right now, I are drivin' my ass down to Texas. Buh bye!

I went into PHB's office this afternoon and told him thanks but no thanks. He was actually quite gracious, said he had to try, and then offered to help in any way I might need it. Very nice, I thought. Luckily for me, it appears that the bridge is intact.

There's a part of me that thinks his offer was merely a token gesture. He can now tell people that he made a counter-offer that I rejected. With that being said, it was a pretty impressive token offer if that's what it was.

Token it was.
CYA it was.
Why do I sound like Yoda?

ArkieDukie wrote:I went into PHB's office this afternoon and told him thanks but no thanks. He was actually quite gracious, said he had to try, and then offered to help in any way I might need it. Very nice, I thought. Luckily for me, it appears that the bridge is intact.

There's a part of me that thinks his offer was merely a token gesture. He can now tell people that he made a counter-offer that I rejected. With that being said, it was a pretty impressive token offer if that's what it was.

It may well have been a token...and he may have been 99% sure you weren't going to take it so he could afford to be generous. Anytime you can leave without burning a bridge is a win. If anyone asks be sure to tell them it was 'very generous' skipping the details of course.

Will it be possible (or desirable) for you to continue to do analysis for them after you're gone?

windsor wrote:

ArkieDukie wrote:I went into PHB's office this afternoon and told him thanks but no thanks. He was actually quite gracious, said he had to try, and then offered to help in any way I might need it. Very nice, I thought. Luckily for me, it appears that the bridge is intact.

There's a part of me that thinks his offer was merely a token gesture. He can now tell people that he made a counter-offer that I rejected. With that being said, it was a pretty impressive token offer if that's what it was.

It may well have been a token...and he may have been 99% sure you weren't going to take it so he could afford to be generous. Anytime you can leave without burning a bridge is a win. If anyone asks be sure to tell them it was 'very generous' skipping the details of course.

Will it be possible (or desirable) for you to continue to do analysis for them after you're gone?

In answer to your question, yes to both. Will need to ask about how that will work out financially.

ArkieDukie wrote:

windsor wrote:

ArkieDukie wrote:I went into PHB's office this afternoon and told him thanks but no thanks. He was actually quite gracious, said he had to try, and then offered to help in any way I might need it. Very nice, I thought. Luckily for me, it appears that the bridge is intact.

There's a part of me that thinks his offer was merely a token gesture. He can now tell people that he made a counter-offer that I rejected. With that being said, it was a pretty impressive token offer if that's what it was.

It may well have been a token...and he may have been 99% sure you weren't going to take it so he could afford to be generous. Anytime you can leave without burning a bridge is a win. If anyone asks be sure to tell them it was 'very generous' skipping the details of course.

Will it be possible (or desirable) for you to continue to do analysis for them after you're gone?

In answer to your question, yes to both. Will need to ask about how that will work out financially.

He will have to pay you like the highly paid, specialized contractor that you are!