The Political Junkie Thread

[CrazyNotCrazie]

PS, Vermont's governor is a Republican, so if something awful were to happen with Leahy, he would likely be replaced with a Republican senator and the Senate would flip back.

Don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole but he is about as RINO as they get. The Republican governor of Mass. is the same. According to this article, the VT governor voted for Biden.

https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/sto ... 573855002/

Leahy was back home not long after his hospital run, so that's a good sign and crossing fingers it was no big deal.

I didn't know he had been hospitalized (too busy watching the Duke game!) - I was wondering why you were speculating about that. Makes more sense now...

[Phredd3]

Almost a week after the new senators wore sworn in, Mitch finally concedes control of the Senate. He had wanted in writing that Dems wouldn't remove the filibuster, but gave in on the words of Manchin and Synema that they have no intention of revoking it.

Going back to the filibuster for a moment, I just read this opinion piece in the New York Times by Bret Neuborn (Professor of NYU Law) and Erwin Chemerinsky (Dean of Stanford Law) suggesting an excellent way that the Dems could keep their word but still severely limit the practical use of the filibuster.

I believe the article is paywalled, and I can't find an alternate outlet, but the summary is to return the filibuster to an in-person, hold-the-floor affair, so that it is much harder to use and so that filibuster proponents have to be available for cloture votes, rather than sleeping at home. The filibuster would still be available, but it would be a lot harder to use as a casual weapon of mass obstruction.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Going back to the filibuster for a moment, I just read this opinion piece in the New York Times by Bret Neuborn (Professor of NYU Law) and Erwin Chemerinsky (Dean of Stanford Law) suggesting an excellent way that the Dems could keep their word but still severely limit the practical use of the filibuster.

I believe the article is paywalled, and I can't find an alternate outlet, but the summary is to return the filibuster to an in-person, hold-the-floor affair, so that it is much harder to use and so that filibuster proponents have to be available for cloture votes, rather than sleeping at home. The filibuster would still be available, but it would be a lot harder to use as a casual weapon of mass obstruction.

Get it, Mr. Smith! (Very happy they prominently referenced that movie.) I'd love to see those days return; I'm guessing Mitch wouldn't be the one handling the floor speech.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

This is almost a week old so apologies if others have seen it, but the Lincoln Project is still doing great work. John Danforth, former Republican senator from Missouri was on TV the other night saying the mentoring and endorsing Hawley was one of the biggest mistakes of his life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRbbzpw7CNo

[gumbomoop]

Trump as useful idiot to Russian propaganda over decades. This article, a preview of new book, won’t surprise you, but it’s worth a quick read.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... y-new-book

[ArkieDukie]

Trump as useful idiot to Russian propaganda over decades. This article, a preview of new book, won’t surprise you, but it’s worth a quick read.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... y-new-book

Great, interesting read. Thanks for sharing. I think this could be a very interesting book, especially since I’ve listened to the audio version of the redacted Mueller Report.

Survey question. Is Trump going to continue his stranglehold on the Republican Party, forcing out all who don’t agree with him, or will he form his own party? Rumor is that the Patriot Party is in formative stages. Is the Republican Party destined for a split?

[CameronBornAndBred]

Survey question. Is Trump going to continue his stranglehold on the Republican Party, forcing out all who don’t agree with him, or will he form his own party? Rumor is that the Patriot Party is in formative stages. Is the Republican Party destined for a split?

As long as the GOP allows it to happen, yes, that is his nature. And they don't seem to be in any mood to stop it.
As far as allowing a split, if they want to remain relevant instead of the party of insanity, they should allow it. And then the sane ones should go after the defector party full force.

[ArkieDukie]

Survey question. Is Trump going to continue his stranglehold on the Republican Party, forcing out all who don’t agree with him, or will he form his own party? Rumor is that the Patriot Party is in formative stages. Is the Republican Party destined for a split?

As long as the GOP allows it to happen, yes, that is his nature. And they don't seem to be in any mood to stop it.
As far as allowing a split, if they want to remain relevant instead of the party of insanity, they should allow it. And then the sane ones should go after the defector party full force.

I agree that, at this point, some point of split is in the best interest of the Republican party. Whether the ReTrumplicans keep the party and everyone else leaves to form a new party (Lincoln Party?), or the reTrumplicans leave to form the Patriot Party, it'll be easier to tell the sane people from the QAnoners.
My hypothesis is that a new, more moderate Republican (or whatever) party, without the far right crazies, might actually attract some moderate to conservative Democrats. Could be interesting to watch this play out.

[CameronBornAndBred]

All five of the impeachment lawyers who were expected to represent former President Donald Trump have called it quits, sources told ABC News.

The team, led by South Carolina lawyer Butch Bowers, resigned in part because of disagreements over how to mount Trump’s defense, the sources said. The lawyers had planned to argue the constitutionality of holding a trial given Trump is now a former president.

The disagreements over strategy varied, sources told ABC News, but Trump wanted his team to argue there was election fraud, while the lawyers and some top advisers to the former president wanted the focus to remain on the constitutionality of a trial with the president no longer in office.

Trump must be an absolute joy for lawyers to work with. Bright side for them, they won't have to worry about not getting paid.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/donald-trumps ... 10892.html

[CrazyNotCrazie]

All five of the impeachment lawyers who were expected to represent former President Donald Trump have called it quits, sources told ABC News.

The team, led by South Carolina lawyer Butch Bowers, resigned in part because of disagreements over how to mount Trump’s defense, the sources said. The lawyers had planned to argue the constitutionality of holding a trial given Trump is now a former president.

The disagreements over strategy varied, sources told ABC News, but Trump wanted his team to argue there was election fraud, while the lawyers and some top advisers to the former president wanted the focus to remain on the constitutionality of a trial with the president no longer in office.

Trump must be an absolute joy for lawyers to work with. Bright side for them, they won't have to worry about not getting paid.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/donald-trumps ... 10892.html

One of the lawyers who quit is a Duke alum - friend of a friend of mine. Kudos to him for quitting, but the fact that he even considered representing Trump in this does not speak well of him in my book.

Unfortunately, Trump could have my son's 1st grade class representing him and it looks like he will not be impeached. Too many of the Republicans have already made up their minds and it will be impossible to convince them. A few might vote to convict but not enough.

[CameronBornAndBred]

All five of the impeachment lawyers who were expected to represent former President Donald Trump have called it quits, sources told ABC News.

The team, led by South Carolina lawyer Butch Bowers, resigned in part because of disagreements over how to mount Trump’s defense, the sources said. The lawyers had planned to argue the constitutionality of holding a trial given Trump is now a former president.

The disagreements over strategy varied, sources told ABC News, but Trump wanted his team to argue there was election fraud, while the lawyers and some top advisers to the former president wanted the focus to remain on the constitutionality of a trial with the president no longer in office.

Trump must be an absolute joy for lawyers to work with. Bright side for them, they won't have to worry about not getting paid.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/donald-trumps ... 10892.html

One of the lawyers who quit is a Duke alum - friend of a friend of mine. Kudos to him for quitting, but the fact that he even considered representing Trump in this does not speak well of him in my book.

Unfortunately, Trump could have my son's 1st grade class representing him and it looks like he will not be impeached. Too many of the Republicans have already made up their minds and it will be impossible to convince them. A few might vote to convict but not enough.

What trips me out is that Trump is renouncing sound advice (I don't agree that it actually is unconstitutional, especially with precedence) and going with the most moronic defense possible, and the one that helped get him impeached in the first place.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Trump must be an absolute joy for lawyers to work with. Bright side for them, they won't have to worry about not getting paid.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/donald-trumps ... 10892.html

One of the lawyers who quit is a Duke alum - friend of a friend of mine. Kudos to him for quitting, but the fact that he even considered representing Trump in this does not speak well of him in my book.

Unfortunately, Trump could have my son's 1st grade class representing him and it looks like he will not be impeached. Too many of the Republicans have already made up their minds and it will be impossible to convince them. A few might vote to convict but not enough.

What trips me out is that Trump is renouncing sound advice (I don't agree that it actually is unconstitutional, especially with precedence) and going with the most moronic defense possible, and the one that helped get him impeached in the first place.

If I am understanding the situation correctly, it is actually a pretty bright move by Trump. He recognizes that there is very little chance of him getting impeached. So he can say pretty much whatever he wants and it doesn't really matter. So why not use this as a pep rally to fire up the merry band of idiots who still think he was cheated out of the election and continue to drink the kool-aid and support him? He will have a huge audience (which is the most important thing in the world to him) and he is going to end up "winning" by not getting impeached so he will have a huge "I told you so" moment.

The only potential issue is if he could be found guilty of lying in his testimony by talking about a lot of made up facts, but he is pretty talented at working his way around that. The whole thing is going to be a circus, which is what Trump loves.

[CameronBornAndBred]

If I am understanding the situation correctly, it is actually a pretty bright move by Trump. He recognizes that there is very little chance of him getting impeached. So he can say pretty much whatever he wants and it doesn't really matter. So why not use this as a pep rally to fire up the merry band of idiots who still think he was cheated out of the election and continue to drink the kool-aid and support him? He will have a huge audience (which is the most important thing in the world to him) and he is going to end up "winning" by not getting impeached so he will have a huge "I told you so" moment.

The only potential issue is if he could be found guilty of lying in his testimony by talking about a lot of made up facts, but he is pretty talented at working his way around that. The whole thing is going to be a circus, which is what Trump loves.

Because the House managers are putting together a very visual presentation, showing both his claims of a stolen election, his incitement to violence, and then the results of said incitement. It is going to tug at the emotions of every American watching at home, and that alone will be hard for GOP senators to ignore.
If he argues on the basis that the whole shebang is unconstitutional, then it won't much matter what the Democrats present. Mitch and Co can simply say "what he did was awful and he should pay, but since it's against the foundation laws of our country, there's not much we can do."

[CrazyNotCrazie]

If I am understanding the situation correctly, it is actually a pretty bright move by Trump. He recognizes that there is very little chance of him getting impeached. So he can say pretty much whatever he wants and it doesn't really matter. So why not use this as a pep rally to fire up the merry band of idiots who still think he was cheated out of the election and continue to drink the kool-aid and support him? He will have a huge audience (which is the most important thing in the world to him) and he is going to end up "winning" by not getting impeached so he will have a huge "I told you so" moment.

The only potential issue is if he could be found guilty of lying in his testimony by talking about a lot of made up facts, but he is pretty talented at working his way around that. The whole thing is going to be a circus, which is what Trump loves.

Because the House managers are putting together a very visual presentation, showing both his claims of a stolen election, his incitement to violence, and then the results of said incitement. It is going to tug at the emotions of every American watching at home, and that alone will be hard for GOP senators to ignore.
If he argues on the basis that the whole shebang is unconstitutional, then it won't much matter what the Democrats present. Mitch and Co can simply say "what he did was awful and he should pay, but since it's against the foundation laws of our country, there's not much we can do."

I feel like he can have his cake and eat it too. Spend most of the time railing against how he was cheated out of the election so that he can have the circus that he loves and rally his "base." Then at the end say "oh yeah, this is also unconstitutional. It's a witch hunt." I totally agree that the more traditional approach would in many ways make more sense. But I can see where he is coming from (which is scary that I can make my brain work like his!).

[OPK]

The sooner the Dems stop talking about Trump the better. R’s ain’t gonna convict so all this does is give Trump a high profile platform he otherwise lacks.

[CameronBornAndBred]

The sooner the Dems stop talking about Trump the better. R’s ain’t gonna convict so all this does is give Trump a high profile platform he otherwise lacks.

I think Biden and most of Congress will be very happy with a speedy trial.

[dudog]

I love the common sense behind this.
Arizona flips blue in the POTUS race, so the answer from the state GOP isn't to look inward and ponder changes, but to dig in, reclaim their loyalty to Trump, and censure high level politicians, including their current Republican Senator and Governor.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/arizona-repu ... 35356.html

Republicans attitude to tRumps insurrection and impeachment is not only disgusting and disheartening I just don’t see their logic. If they don’t take the chance to DumptRump now surely they are lost in that tRump will continue running and ruining everything. Don’t they want to have control of their own destiny?
Plus its down right dishonest!

Here’s the thing. Based on the rant I got from my dad yesterday, there’s still support for Trump. The following is what my dad legit believes, and no statement of facts will change:

1. There was widespread voter fraud, especially in PA. The numbers he cited were those pulled out of thin air by Rudy Giuliani. Those numbers have been debunked, but good luck telling that to a hard core Trump supporter.
2. If a fair election was held, Trump would win by a landslide.
3. Trump had nothing to do with the insurrection. That was antifa.
4. Trump did nothing impeachable. The Democrats are just afraid he will run again in 2024, and he would win. They’re trying to block that from happening.
5. Nancy Pelosi is solely responsible for the holdup in aid checks.

I could go on, but you get the idea. Basically, the Republicans in AZ are sucking up to the Trump supporters in their state. Based on what is happening, I see the odds of impeachment at slim to none. I think there’s a real risk that the Republican Party splits, with Trump forming his own party. Fine by me. He will get the QAnon faction. The remaining republicans would be sane. But, it should hurt their chances in future elections. I would like to see a moderate party emerge from the far right insanity. I think they would gain support from the moderates in the Democratic Party, as well as picking up the never Trumpers.

I would really like to know what media source is amplifying the pro-Trump garbage.

Sorry I'm late to the party, just found the thread. So here's a good a place as any to jump in...

Were you adopted?

[dudog]

The sooner the Dems stop talking about Trump the better. R’s ain’t gonna convict so all this does is give Trump a high profile platform he otherwise lacks.

Gotta disagree. #1, he has to be held accountable. If a President can't be impeached for this, they might as well write it out of the Constitution. So it's time to challenge that silly DOJ memo that a sitting President can't be indicted.

#2, Trump is excellent for D turnout, as shown so recently in your home state.

But #3, yes I wish he would go far, far away.

[ArkieDukie]

Republicans attitude to tRumps insurrection and impeachment is not only disgusting and disheartening I just don’t see their logic. If they don’t take the chance to DumptRump now surely they are lost in that tRump will continue running and ruining everything. Don’t they want to have control of their own destiny?
Plus its down right dishonest!

Here’s the thing. Based on the rant I got from my dad yesterday, there’s still support for Trump. The following is what my dad legit believes, and no statement of facts will change:

1. There was widespread voter fraud, especially in PA. The numbers he cited were those pulled out of thin air by Rudy Giuliani. Those numbers have been debunked, but good luck telling that to a hard core Trump supporter.
2. If a fair election was held, Trump would win by a landslide.
3. Trump had nothing to do with the insurrection. That was antifa.
4. Trump did nothing impeachable. The Democrats are just afraid he will run again in 2024, and he would win. They’re trying to block that from happening.
5. Nancy Pelosi is solely responsible for the holdup in aid checks.

I could go on, but you get the idea. Basically, the Republicans in AZ are sucking up to the Trump supporters in their state. Based on what is happening, I see the odds of impeachment at slim to none. I think there’s a real risk that the Republican Party splits, with Trump forming his own party. Fine by me. He will get the QAnon faction. The remaining republicans would be sane. But, it should hurt their chances in future elections. I would like to see a moderate party emerge from the far right insanity. I think they would gain support from the moderates in the Democratic Party, as well as picking up the never Trumpers.

I would really like to know what media source is amplifying the pro-Trump garbage.

Sorry I'm late to the party, just found the thread. So here's a good a place as any to jump in...

Were you adopted?

No. I’m just one of many people around the country in a similar position. At least 3 cousins have parents crazier than my dad. Another of Dad’s relatives, a Mennonite minister and an extremely nice guy, routinely gets attacked on FB when he posts anything even remotely political. The most recent post that drew attacks was a post that talked about how black children couldn’t play with toy guns. At least it gives me a window to know who I don’t want to interact with.

[dudog]

Here’s the thing. Based on the rant I got from my dad yesterday, there’s still support for Trump. The following is what my dad legit believes, and no statement of facts will change:

1. There was widespread voter fraud, especially in PA. The numbers he cited were those pulled out of thin air by Rudy Giuliani. Those numbers have been debunked, but good luck telling that to a hard core Trump supporter.
2. If a fair election was held, Trump would win by a landslide.
3. Trump had nothing to do with the insurrection. That was antifa.
4. Trump did nothing impeachable. The Democrats are just afraid he will run again in 2024, and he would win. They’re trying to block that from happening.
5. Nancy Pelosi is solely responsible for the holdup in aid checks.

I could go on, but you get the idea. Basically, the Republicans in AZ are sucking up to the Trump supporters in their state. Based on what is happening, I see the odds of impeachment at slim to none. I think there’s a real risk that the Republican Party splits, with Trump forming his own party. Fine by me. He will get the QAnon faction. The remaining republicans would be sane. But, it should hurt their chances in future elections. I would like to see a moderate party emerge from the far right insanity. I think they would gain support from the moderates in the Democratic Party, as well as picking up the never Trumpers.

I would really like to know what media source is amplifying the pro-Trump garbage.

Sorry I'm late to the party, just found the thread. So here's a good a place as any to jump in...

Were you adopted?

No. I’m just one of many people around the country in a similar position. At least 3 cousins have parents crazier than my dad. Another of Dad’s relatives, a Mennonite minister and an extremely nice guy, routinely gets attacked on FB when he posts anything even remotely political. The most recent post that drew attacks was a post that talked about how black children couldn’t play with toy guns. At least it gives me a window to know who I don’t want to interact with.

I think I saw a similar post, black kids get shot for playing with a toy gun and white men attack the Capitol with assault weapons and get ushered in.

Trump didn't create this. But 5 years ago I could have disagreements with friends and family. Not anymore. I don't know, maybe it's good to lance this boil and get it out there.