crazietalk.net

I hope and pray that this is untrue, and if it is, RS should be punished to the full extent of the law. However, I see absolutely nothing in this article that convinces me something illegal took place. I see a ton of rumor and innuendo and "anonymous" sources, and 3 and 4 UNIDENTIFIED people who claimed that two different UNIDENTIFIED young women at two different diversity retreats claimed to have been assaulted. Do we even know for a fact that it's two different accusers? Could the same young lady have attended both retreats and said the same thing at each? No formal complaints appear to have been filed with either the university or law enforcement. All the accounts in the article appear to be second and third hand. Maybe even fourth hand (is that a thing)?

I'm doing the same thing I did with the lax team... innocent until proven guilty.

ScienceGuy wrote:I hate being right...

I've yet to see anywhere that you are right. You MAY be right, and you MAY be wrong, but until the women involved actually decide to go to either the Duke or Durham police, there is not much to go on.

I have no doubt in my mind that K would not protect a mere role player on his team if he had knowledge that the accusations were anything more than a rumor. In fact, I have no doubt in my mind that that he wouldn't protect a star one and done player. I'm not bowing before K's altar saying this, but going on years of watching him hand out punishments to players in the past. He booted Rasheed, but it wasn't for rape. If it had been for rape, it would have been done long ago. Rasheed may indeed be guilty, he may be innocent. But his current status with the team is not a result of an alleged sexual assault. He would not have stepped on campus this year if that were the case, not as a player, not as a student.

lawgrad91 wrote:

CameronBornAndBred wrote:Get ready for a shit storm. This will not be pretty. Think Duke fans (and every other school fan base) when charges were leveled against Jameis Winston.

http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2 ... PReG_nF-VM

The difference I see is this wasn't turned over to the good ol' boy police the way Jameis' was.

But I may be the only person in the world who sees that as a difference. And if allegations were known that long ago, he should have been toast then.

For the most part I agree, where I would make a distinction is when the second allegation surfaces then I believe action is merited. Not to discredit any first complainants, but without any charges, etc. I'm not sure taking action based on a single rumor is difficult.

I already posted this over yonder, but I know some of you don't go there anymore, so I'll repeat it here...

I think something we need to keep in mind is the breadth of the definition of sexual assault in North Carolina. At their website, it says that sexual assault is the unwanted touching of any of a person's areas that would be covered by a bikini bathing suit, in other words, without their EXPRESS consent (which it says can be done verbally or by "action", wow, that's vague). It CAN include rape.

So, if RS and a young lady were at a party, drinking, and started making out, then he groped her (fill in body part here), then she said no and shoved him away, THAT'S sexual assault by the state law.

Improper behavior? Absolutely. Should he have been reprimanded? Yes. If he did it again, should he be dismissed from the team? Yes. However, if that's what he did, and we REALLY don't know, is this worth blowing up everything? I don't know if I'm willing to go that far.

I know I saw things like that happen several times when I was at Duke. If we think this doesn't still happen all the time... I'll let you finish that sentence. If the young man weren't a basketball player, would we ever have heard about this? I'll let you answer that too.

Again, IF that's what happened, it was wrong. I just think we need to keep in mind how ridiculously broad the definition is and that we really don't know what happened yet.

Here's another one. RS turns around fast and bumps into a girl, spilling his (or her) drink all over her. In the process of the spill, or in trying to help clean her up, he brushes her shirt in the chest area. She jumps back and says "Hey!" He apologizes. In North Carolina, that's sexual assault. Is that what happened? Probably not, but again, WE DON'T KNOW. I can go on all day with scenarios involving RS that fall under sexual assault. Again, without details, we just don't know. Let's keep that in mind here.

One thing I forgot to mention is that the state website even calls it "an umbrella term." Could it BE any more broad? (Chandler voice here)

Maybe some of our attorneys can comment on this better than I can.

CameronBornAndBred wrote:

ScienceGuy wrote:I hate being right...

I've yet to see anywhere that you are right. You MAY be right, and you MAY be wrong, but until the women involved actually decide to go to either the Duke or Durham police, there is not much to go on.

I have no doubt in my mind that K would not protect a mere role player on his team if he had knowledge that the accusations were anything more than a rumor. In fact, I have no doubt in my mind that that he wouldn't protect a star one and done player. I'm not bowing before K's altar saying this, but going on years of watching him hand out punishments to players in the past. He booted Rasheed, but it wasn't for rape. If it had been for rape, it would have been done long ago. Rasheed may indeed be guilty, he may be innocent. But his current status with the team is not a result of an alleged sexual assault. He would not have stepped on campus this year if that were the case, not as a player, not as a student.

I have two responses:

1. I should probably clarify what I mean when I say "being right." A long, long time ago, I said that "this situation has something to do with a sexual assault." A key word that I left out but should have included was 'allegations,' though I admit I was a bit more naïvely confident in my sources and was more trusting in the veracity of their information back then than I am now. However, the part that I unfortunately claim to be right isn't the 'sexual assault' part (and I really hope that remains the case) but instead the 'something to do with' part. What does that mean? Well, from now on, when people think of Rasheed's dismissal, they are going to think of sexual assault as well, regardless of whether these allegations have any merit or not. Similar to the Duke lacrosse scandal, there are many people who are going to equate Rasheed Sulaimon and Duke with sexual assault, even if these claims turn out to be completely fabricated (in other words, it's always going to have 'something to do with sexual assault' in the public's eye, even if that never really was the case).

That's what makes this situation so shitty for us as Duke fans, it's a lose bad-lose worse deal. Either the claims are false (or never actually existed) and we have to endure years if not decades of being harassed by misguided social justice types and trolls for supporting a sexual predator despite the false/nonexistent claims, or the claims are true, in which case we have to somehow come to terms with the facts that we as fans have been cheering on a criminal and that the coaches knew about these allegations for nearly a year before dismissing said criminal from the team. Both of those outcomes suck. I hate being (partially) right.


2. This is similar to what bjornolf said in that sexual assault =/= rape. While rape is the most serious subset of sexual assault, sexual assault in itself has a much, much broader definition than what constitutes rape. If these were rape allegations (and I reeeeaaaaalllly hope they weren't), then I would be appalled at the administration's and coaches' seeming indifference to them. Rape allegations are serious enough to merit an immediate investigation, true or false. Sexual assault, however, can constitute something such as slapping a girl on her butt or sending her unwanted, dirty-sounding pickup lines in a text message. Actions which, while disrespectful, don't really necessitate the immediate, serious investigation that rape allegations would.
[conjecture] The handling of this matter by all parties who supposedly know of the allegations strongly suggests they are on the milder end of the sexual assault spectrum; additionally, all media outlets are reporting 'sexual assault' and not 'rape,' which would definitely not be the case if these were rape allegations. [/conjecture]

Excellent reply to the press in regards to K's "no comment" from Kevin White.

“I want to clarify the role of Duke Athletics staff and coaches in the student conduct process at Duke,” White wrote. Any allegation of student misconduct that is brought to the attention of our staff and coaches is immediately referred to the Office of Student Conduct in Student Affairs, which has responsibility for upholding the Duke code of conduct. The athletics department does not investigate or adjudicate matters of student conduct, and cooperates completely in the process. These investigations are conducted thoroughly, in a timely manner, and with great care to respect the privacy and confidentiality of all students involved.

“Those procedures have been, and continue to be, followed by Coach Mike Krzyzewski and all members of the men’s basketball program. Coach Krzyzewski and his staff understand and have fulfilled their responsibilities to the university, its students and the community. As specified by federal law and university policy, all Duke officials, including Coach Krzyzewski, are prohibited from commenting publicly on any specific individual or situation.”

http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/03/03/ ... fends.html

Excellent? What did White say? Nothing at all. What CAN he say? He, along with Sheed, Coach, Dean Sue and the entire Duke community is being held hostage.

The only people who can satisfy inquiring minds are the two alleged coeds who allegedly told some other alleged person that they were allegedly victims of something that allegedly happened and that it allegedly had something to do with sexual assault somewhere at some point.

Taking anonymous potshots is a pretty cowardly way to go. I'm neither defending or condemning RS. But I do take real issue with cutting any slack to these alleged victims. If you're going to open your mouths at all girls, have the decency to back it up. If something awful happened to you I'm very, very sorry. But, if nothing really did it's going to be embarrassing if your names are ever leaked. And what are those odds since you seemingly announced it to a hundred or so of your closest friends.

Could it be this "common ground" thing should reexamine itself, its goals and its methods of doing business. So far it appears its doing more harm than good.
Love, Ima

Any update to this story? I don't think any charges have been filed.
I am still stunned.

Ima Facultiwyfe wrote:Excellent? What did White say? Nothing at all. What CAN he say? He, along with Sheed, Coach, Dean Sue and the entire Duke community is being held hostage.

The only people who can satisfy inquiring minds are the two alleged coeds who allegedly told some other alleged person that they were allegedly victims of something that allegedly happened and that it allegedly had something to do with sexual assault somewhere at some point.

Taking anonymous potshots is a pretty cowardly way to go. I'm neither defending or condemning RS. But I do take real issue with cutting any slack to these alleged victims. If you're going to open your mouths at all girls, have the decency to back it up. If something awful happened to you I'm very, very sorry. But, if nothing really did it's going to be embarrassing if your names are ever leaked. And what are those odds since you seemingly announced it to a hundred or so of your closest friends.

Could it be this "common ground" thing should reexamine itself, its goals and its methods of doing business. So far it appears its doing more harm than good.
Love, Ima

He can't say anything, which is why Dr. White's statement is excellent. It gives a perfect reason to those asking for more from Coach K as to why he CAN'T say anything at all.

It's just that I would not characterize the statement as "excellent". It was just standard. Of course he can't say anything. That's my point. The only people who can be the least bit helpful in righting the wrongs are the two alleged "non-complaintants" (and their alleged assistant). None of us is privy to why anybody loses a position. That's between the loser and his boss. We're only privy to public records. That's why these two troublemakers should do the right thing and quit hiding under their rock in common ground. Either charge him with something or step forward and say they were misquoted or misunderstood. Quit holding the boy and the community hostage and creating more collateral damage. Doesn't every man have the right to face his accuser?
Love, Ima

Patrick Witt.

You can't clear your name when there is nothing to clear your name of. But you can be held under suspicion, forever. And it's not right.

I also believe that young women in this case may fear the kind of backlash that comes with accusing a high profile athlete of rape or sexual assault. And they are right.

The world is not fair. It never will be. We should all keep trying to make if fair but we will never succeed. Whatever the non-complaints, the young women involved chose not to move forward but the whole thing is now a shit storm and I blame The Chronicle. By officially going public when the young women in this story officially chose not to, The Chronicle is guilty of at the very least ignoring their wishes and at worst a serious breach of journalistic ethics. Both young women declined to be interviewed for the story. I have to believe that if they had wanted to make the story public, they would have done so. We may wring our hands at the lack of reporting of sexual assault, but, when a young woman chooses not to move forward through official channels, I respect her right to do so. It is a shame that The Chronicle did not. The Chronicle has now subjected RS to public scrutiny. He will be tried in the court of public opinion. So will Coach K. And they can't defend themselves because federal law prohibits it.

OK - complete speculation on my part, but I'm trying to come up with a scenario in my own mind that makes sense. Perhaps RS was placed on probation by Coach K similar to Chris Jones at Louisville. This probation may have included multiple rules including making curfew - again, like Chris Jones at Louisville. The final straw may not have had anything to do with sexual misconduct but because RS was already on probation, one misstep was it and he was done. That's my best guess here.

Personally, I don't think these rumors/allegations were the final straw - and maybe not even any straw. I've seen several mentions of an argument between Rasheed and Coach K after the ND game regarding playing time and, apparently, this wasn't the only time the topic had been discussed. I think that was the final straw and the timing of the resignation of the student in the bball office, with his new found knowledge of the alleged incidents is either pure coincidence in timing or someone's agenda - leaning way more toward coincidence and maybe 0.0000005% to agenda. (I don't have enough tin foil to make a hat to really believe in any conspiracy theory.)

With the little amount (no amount?) of verifiable information in the Chronicle article, I think they shouldn't have printed it in the first place - they have done a real disservice to the two unnamed females and to Rasheed Sulaimon.

DukieInKansas wrote:
With the little amount (no amount?) of verifiable information in the Chronicle article, I think they shouldn't have printed it in the first place - they have done a real disservice to the two unnamed females and to Rasheed Sulaimon.

In complete agreement with you DinK!

Amen to BD and Dink. I quit reading the Durham paper once and for all when it was bought out by the Kentucky mafia and they unceremoniously showed Al Featherston the door . I wonder if they bought out the Chronicle while they were at it. What a rag.
Love, Ima

Ima Facultiwyfe wrote:Amen to BD and Dink. I quit reading the Durham paper once and for all when it was bought out by the Kentucky mafia and they unceremoniously showed Al Featherston the door . I wonder if they bought out the Chronicle while they were at it. What a rag.
Love, Ima

I can only imagine the emails that the writers and the editors have been getting.

Bostondevil wrote:

DukieInKansas wrote:
With the little amount (no amount?) of verifiable information in the Chronicle article, I think they shouldn't have printed it in the first place - they have done a real disservice to the two unnamed females and to Rasheed Sulaimon.

In complete agreement with you DinK!

Y'all nailed it. Thank you.

DukieInKansas wrote:With the little amount (no amount?) of verifiable information in the Chronicle article, I think they shouldn't have printed it in the first place - they have done a real disservice to the two unnamed females and to Rasheed Sulaimon.

They've done a huge disservice to Duke as well. No matter what happens, Duke looks like a bad guy in the court of public opinion, even in the possible case that nothing ever happened at all. Pretty much everyone associated with Duke in some way is negatively affected at least a little by this story. The particularly troubling part is that this negative story was originally published by the Duke student newspaper. This is a story I might expect from Carolina's paper trying to do damage to us, not from Duke's own paper.

I could go into a rant about how the Chronicle is a piece of shit and how journalism generally sucks nowadays, but I think that'd just be a waste of time, so I'll stop here.

ScienceGuy wrote:

DukieInKansas wrote:With the little amount (no amount?) of verifiable information in the Chronicle article, I think they shouldn't have printed it in the first place - they have done a real disservice to the two unnamed females and to Rasheed Sulaimon.

They've done a huge disservice to Duke as well. No matter what happens, Duke looks like a bad guy in the court of public opinion, even in the possible case that nothing ever happened at all. Pretty much everyone associated with Duke in some way is negatively affected at least a little by this story. The particularly troubling part is that this negative story was originally published by the Duke student newspaper. This is a story I might expect from Carolina's paper trying to do damage to us, not from Duke's own paper.

I could go into a rant about how the Chronicle is a piece of shit and how journalism generally sucks nowadays, but I think that'd just be a waste of time, so I'll stop here.

Good thoughts and Comments!
The writers for The Chronicle threw Coach K, Dr White and staff and the team under the bus.