Biden won, it's over --- The Election Thread

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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by Phredd3 » October 2nd, 2020, 9:27 am

CameronBornAndBred wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 8:54 am
From what I've read, many folks in the GOP, including campaign advisers, see this is as the last straw for any of his re-election chances.
I wish I were that confident. Trump is getting the best care in the world, the odds are with him anyway, despite his age and co-morbidities, and we have treatment techniques that did not exist at the beginning of the pandemic. There are no guarantees with this thing, but the odds are very, very good that he will make a rapid, full recovery.

If he does that, I truly fear for the health of the country, because with Trump, whatever happens to him is what he attributes to everyone. And a lot of people - not just his supporters - will do the same. "See? The virus is no big deal."

CNN was wishing for Trump to have a speedy recovery, and while I hate to say it out loud, I am not in that camp. I don't hope he dies from it, but I hope it hits him hard and that word leaks out that it is. He can recover after that message gets sent.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by dudog » October 2nd, 2020, 9:35 am

Phredd3 wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 9:27 am
If he does that, I truly fear for the health of the country, because with Trump, whatever happens to him is what he attributes to everyone. And a lot of people - not just his supporters - will do the same. "See? The virus is no big deal."
That's a really tough sell when we've just passed 210,000 dead and will be pushing 250,000 by election day. Everybody, and I mean everybody, knows he gets better health care than virtually anybody on the planet. There is no way this turns into a net positive for him. His base is his base, and that's it.

In 2016, undecideds broke late for Trump. It will be the opposite this year.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by Phredd3 » October 2nd, 2020, 9:43 am

dudog wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 9:35 am
There is no way this turns into a net positive for him. His base is his base, and that's it.

In 2016, undecideds broke late for Trump. It will be the opposite this year.
I sincerely hope you are correct. If he gets really sick, we'll be sure.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by CameronBornAndBred » October 2nd, 2020, 9:52 am

Interesting that this is coming 4 years to the week after his "Grab them by the pussy" comment. We all thought for sure that with only a month to go before the election, he was sunk back then.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by dudog » October 2nd, 2020, 10:25 am

Knowing Hicks was positive, and therefore he almost certainly was, Trump held a fundraiser yesterday. I wonder if the people in that room are putting stop-payments on their checks.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by dudog » October 2nd, 2020, 11:56 am

Wondering how the debate affected the race? Here's the first true post-debate poll (conducted 9/30 - 10/1). New Hampshire.

Immediately before the debate, Biden's lead was 6.9. With this latest poll, the average jumps to 9.2.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/po ... t-general/

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/po ... hampshire/

Edit: There was also a poll out of Georgia conducted 9/30. Caused the Georgia average to go from Trump +0.2 or +1.1 to Biden +0.5. I expect a lot of polls in the next few days to follow suit. And then who knows what for polls post-TrumpCovid+, but I'd guess further deterioration for the Orange Turd. What a terrible time to be a Syracuse fan (but is there ever a good time?).
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by CameronBornAndBred » October 2nd, 2020, 12:09 pm

Both Trump and his wife are symptomatic now, at least mildly.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by OPK » October 2nd, 2020, 12:13 pm

CameronBornAndBred wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 8:35 am
If only there were way to help prevent people from contracting Covid. If only not being so close to each other, or even having some kind of protective mouth/nose covering could help.

If only that were possible...

Karma is enjoying her tour of the White House today.
He wouldn’t have caught it if he hadn’t taken the test.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by CrazyNotCrazie » October 2nd, 2020, 12:20 pm

I know we are supposed to leave kids alone, but a friend just told me that Barron's school is switching from fully remote to hybrid in a week or two. So the head of that school is going to have to tell him that he can't come since he resides with two people who are positive. Granted, my sense of their relationship is that Barron hasn't been in the same room as his father in weeks, but I would assume that Melania periodically stops by to say hi.

Democrats need to find a way to delicately remind Americans that even if Trump gets through this, it has been found that there are a lot of bad lingering after effects from it. All of which are pre-existing conditions that would make Trump uninsurable if ACA were eliminated (obviously not an issue for him, but it demonstrates the point).
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by dudog » October 2nd, 2020, 12:23 pm

CrazyNotCrazie wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 12:20 pm
Democrats need to find a way to delicately remind Americans that even if Trump gets through this, it has been found that there are a lot of bad lingering after effects from it.
They can't do this until a week before the election. What if Joe gets it?
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by dudog » October 2nd, 2020, 12:37 pm

Wallace noted in an interview on FOX news this morning that the Trump family and supporters in the debate took off their masks in violation of the debate protocol.

The rule was that "everybody except for the President, the Vice President and I, were supposed to wear masks. We were the only ones told that we were not to wear masks. And actually a safety personnel person from the Cleveland Clinic came up to the first family when they were seated and offered them masks in case they didn't have them and they were waved away. And people in the hall noticed that they weren't wearing masks and everybody else in the hall was wearing a mask. When the debate ended, Mrs. Trump came over, walked past me, she was not wearing a mask. Mrs. Biden walked past me to her husband and she was wearing a mask. So there was a difference in the way the two families and their camps treated the health safety regulations inside the hall."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBnb7Kz

What a bunch of weenies we've become in this country. Used to be if you don't follow the rules you don't get to play. They should have been escorted from the building so as not to have endangered everyone else. WTF
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by Wander » October 2nd, 2020, 12:51 pm

Phredd3 wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 9:27 am
I don't hope he dies from it, but I hope it hits him hard and that word leaks out that it is. He can recover after that message gets sent.
I hope he recovers as well. He deserves to see himself get crushed in a fair election. The country deserves to see him get crushed in a fair election.

But, but, but... Trump dying from natural causes, like COVID, may be one of the very few timelines where 2020 ends with a peaceful resolution and transfer of power in the United States.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by CameronBornAndBred » October 2nd, 2020, 1:00 pm

Wander wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 12:51 pm
Phredd3 wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 9:27 am
I don't hope he dies from it, but I hope it hits him hard and that word leaks out that it is. He can recover after that message gets sent.
I hope he recovers as well. He deserves to see himself get crushed in a fair election. The country deserves to see him get crushed in a fair election.

But, but, but... Trump dying from natural causes, like COVID, may be one of the very few timelines where 2020 ends with a peaceful resolution and transfer of power in the United States.
I dunno. He might nuke China from his deathbed. "They did this to me."

While I certainly don't hope he dies, I would not complain if he were symptomatic up to and past election day, having to watch the whole thing unfold from the quarantine that he created for himself.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by Bob Green » October 2nd, 2020, 7:50 pm

Be careful what you wish for...

Never-Trump Conservatives will vote for Pence. I personally guarantee it.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by dudog » October 2nd, 2020, 8:02 pm

Bob Green wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 7:50 pm
Be careful what you wish for...

Never-Trump Conservatives will vote for Pence. I personally guarantee it.
I don't think anyone is wishing for the president to die. Whether out of personal decency (which has left the Republican party) or for the reason you stated.

If Biden had come down with COVID, does anyone think there would have been the same measured response of basic humanity from the White House that we've seen from Joe?
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by CameronBornAndBred » October 2nd, 2020, 10:40 pm

Getting hard to keep up with the big GOP names that are testing positive today.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by gumbomoop » October 3rd, 2020, 1:36 am

Bob Green wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 7:50 pm
Never-Trump Conservatives will vote for Pence. I personally guarantee it.
I think this is true, but I’d add the word “some.” Maybe even concede “many.” Maybe. But not “all.” So we’d wind up guessing the percentage.

Pence “looks” presidential. He carries himself in a way that many Americans like, partly, as is not incidentally the case with Biden, too, as a counterpoint to the boorish Trump. But Pence’s fastidious deportment leads some conservatives to see his carriage as an “empty suit.” His reëlection campaign in Indiana in 2016, especially his promotion of an extreme anti-abortion bill in the phony name of “religious freedom,” was not going smoothly. His bill was strongly opposed by centrist conservatives, the very kinds we are discussing right here. So fierce was the backlash, in fact, that Pence was forced to revise it to make it acceptable to those centrists. Political commentators on the ground in Indiana thought Pence would probably lose his bid to retain the governorship. Trump plucked him from that shocking prospect, and political obscurity, precisely because Pence had become a hero to white evangelicals. Pence got very lucky. Maybe he’ll luck his way to the Presidency, á la Harry Truman.

Many actual conservatives understand that Pence has not been fully his own man these last 3+ years, but he has been so often an embarrassing Trump-enabler that some principled conservatives won’t easily forgive his toadying. I do wonder whether video evidence of Pence’s regular and reliably pompous nonsense about Trump’s Presidential “greatness, wisdom, and steady leadership” can and will be ignored, for it has become patently obvious that Trump has been in no sense great, wise, steady, or a leader. He has been a World Historical Mistake, to principled Americans of all political persuasions.

Pence himself is neither a traitor, sociopath, pathological liar, narcissist, lifelong business cheat, nor serial sexual predator, so his own character will certainly not remind anyone of his despicable boss. Yet Pence has not shown courage, either; quite the opposite, in the face of overwhelming evidence of authoritarian cultism, Pence has “gone along,” repeatedly looking the other way, averting his conscience as well as his eyes, thereby helping a fascist to threaten our constitutional democratic republic. Maybe Pence’s abject failure of conscience and principle has been mostly a matter of sins of omission rather than commission. In either case, the onset of our fascist moment has occasioned no resistance from the current Vice-President.

As VP, Pence has betrayed principled conservatism, not to mention American democracy. But I don’t expect all principled conservatives will agree. Just some.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by ArkieDukie » October 3rd, 2020, 9:52 am

The President has gotten two (that we know of) therapies that are not available to everyday Americans: an experimental antibody cocktail and Remdesivir. IF he recovers quickly, he cannot brag about how the virus is nothing. Now, why did he get both treatments, and in what order? That’s what I want to know. They’re definitely covering all their bases, but his outcome for both treatments is clouded because he had both. Remdesivir works if given early, according to a colleague who actively does COVID-19 research and has a neutralizing antibody that is being commercialized. Remdesivir inhibits viral replication, so it would prevent the virus from taking hold - again, if given early. The antibody cocktail would make the immune system target and destroy viral particles and/or virally infected cells. They’re also giving him vitamin D, which is an immune system booster, and zinc, which inhibits viral entry into cells. I think vitamin C is in the mix, which is also an immune booster. (Note: I take Airborne, which is a bunch of immune-boosting vitamins plus zinc.) Famotidine is an inhibitor of the H2 receptor (an antihistamine). This particular receptor is mainly in the stomach but is also elsewhere. He’s also being given melatonin, and I do not know the logic behind that one. We can all get the OTC stuff, and they’re not bad things to have around.

A couple of points of interest:
1. Hydroxychloroquine is not in the mix. Quelle surprise.
2. Hydroxychloroquine did not prevent him from getting the virus. Quelle surprise.
I’d like to think this will kill the wing nut conspiracy theories about HCQ, but I doubt it. It could even make them worse. They’ll paint it as a vast conspiracy theory, aimed at taking down the President.
Last edited by ArkieDukie on October 3rd, 2020, 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by ArkieDukie » October 3rd, 2020, 10:00 am

Thought to ponder: will it bother anyone that Trump hosted a super-spreader event? I’ve seen a couple of stories that say the rich Republicans who attended the fundraiser at Bedminster are not happy.

Regarding Pence: I want him to live only because a Pence Presidency scares me as much as, if not more than, a Trump Presidency. That guy is so far to the right he makes Trump look like a flaming liberal. I know a lot of people who feel this way, but most are voting for Biden regardless.

Best Tweet I’ve seen: Ruth Bader Ginsburg just won her first argument before God. It is somewhat ironic that the event to name her ultra conservative replacement is likely the source of Trump’s infection. Was Mitch McConnell there? If so, is it bad that I want him to get COVID-19?
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Re: Trump Vs Biden --- The Election Thread

Post by CrazyNotCrazie » October 3rd, 2020, 8:10 pm

ArkieDukie wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 10:00 am
Thought to ponder: will it bother anyone that Trump hosted a super-spreader event? I’ve seen a couple of stories that say the rich Republicans who attended the fundraiser at Bedminster are not happy.

Regarding Pence: I want him to live only because a Pence Presidency scares me as much as, if not more than, a Trump Presidency. That guy is so far to the right he makes Trump look like a flaming liberal. I know a lot of people who feel this way, but most are voting for Biden regardless.

Best Tweet I’ve seen: Ruth Bader Ginsburg just won her first argument before God. It is somewhat ironic that the event to name her ultra conservative replacement is likely the source of Trump’s infection. Was Mitch McConnell there? If so, is it bad that I want him to get COVID-19?
I hate to be crass, but for the last four years I have heard Pence referred to as life insurance for Trump - those who hate Trump will likely like Pence even less. This is something I have struggled with a lot. As someone who is somewhat obsessive about rules, order, protocol, etc., Trump's complete destructive of all norms of presidential (and, for that matter, human) behavior really gets to me. The non-stop chaos of his presidency is torture for me. I also hate his policies, but I would not be nearly as troubled by a president carrying out the same policies but not behaving like Trump. So would I trade the drama of Trump for someone who I disagree with more politically? Not sure. Pence would obviously be more tolerable if the Dems controlled the House and Senate.

So far we know of one super spreader event. Let's see what if any cases come out of the New Jersey event. I assume most of the attendees at that were private citizens so it will be harder to find out. The Dems are walking a bit of a tightrope of not wanting to be too nasty but also wanting to make it 100% clear to everyone that Trump showed zero consideration for human life. The fact that there is now conflicting information coming out is so typical of this administration. But again, there are tens of millions of Americans who are not bothered by it, or are so obsessed with their guns, getting rid of abortion or their taxes that they don't care.
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