The Political Junkie Thread

[CameronBornAndBred]

Well, Virginia let me down once again.

What worries me more than Youngkin is the next presidential election. The Biden backlash may still be strong.

This is the banner headline on CNN this morning.

Democrats know they have a grave problem

They may know it, but I have little hope that they'll do anything to fix it other than continue to push even further left. (Irony in that pushing even further right seems to work great for the GOP.) Because it works for one side, though, does not mean it will work for the other. (And it won't.)
Another headline...
Election night sent serious warning signs that President Biden's party has misjudged the nation's mood

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/03/politics ... index.html

[Phredd3]

Well, Virginia let me down once again.

What worries me more than Youngkin is the next presidential election. The Biden backlash may still be strong.

This is the banner headline on CNN this morning.

Democrats know they have a grave problem

They may know it, but I have little hope that they'll do anything to fix it other than continue to push even further left. (Irony in that pushing even further right seems to work great for the GOP.) Because it works for one side, though, does not mean it will work for the other. (And it won't.)
Another headline...
Election night sent serious warning signs that President Biden's party has misjudged the nation's mood

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/03/politics ... index.html

I kinda disagree with some of the bannering. The main problem Democrats have is that they are so busy in-fighting, they can't get anything done. Republicans are authoritarians at heart, so they unify and push the party line agenda through on pain of excommunication. Democrats are busy thinking for themselves and, you know, discussing and compromising. Which, as it happens, it what is supposed to happen in a Democracy, but Democrats never bother to sell that concept to the voters. I'd love to see the Democrats pushing the notion that compromise is desirable and good for the country, and having a monolithic autocracy on the other side is not. And because of that difference in how the two parties operate, the filibuster would be long gone if the Republicans had a 50-50 senate split and held the tie-breaker.

Instead, the Republican are ruthlessly pressing the message that Democrats are just incompetent and want to tax and spend us into oblivion. It is almost unforgivable that just about the only thing the media would talk about for a long time were the various price tags on the reconciliation bill. The issue isn't the price; the issue is what benefits do we get for our money. If I followed politics only casually, I would still have no idea what they are even fighting about other than a number, and as a taxpayer, the simple thing to think is that smaller spending is better, because of taxes.

So Democrats give traditional Republicans like Mitch a freeroll on the idea that Democrats are the "Tax and Spend" party. When are Democrats going to finally own that, yes, they are the "Tax and Spend" party, but the Republicans are the "Just Spend" party? Democrats are by far the more fiscally responsible party, but somehow Republicans get to pretend that their the responsible ones.

It is utterly frustrating for this Democrat to continue to watch a party that is SO BAD at messaging!

[Bob Green]

Well, I did my part for the VA Guv'nuhs race today.

I early voted last week but I suspect you wish I didn’t.

[OPK]

Independents and moderates decide elections. Biden has an easy win here with the bi-partisan infrastructure bill, but he has been thwarted by progressives who are insisting on a broadly unpopular spending plan and will not vote for the BIF without it. The progressive wing did not even win the Democratic presidential primary with Bernie And Elizabeth Warren; it is not where the majority of the party is.

The progressives are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. And as a result, they’re leaving Biden to twist in the wind while Dem candidates have little to run on.

It is truly baffling to me. (And yes, the same is true of the Republican Freedom Caucus on the right).

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Independents and moderates decide elections. Biden has an easy win here with the bi-partisan infrastructure bill, but he has been thwarted by progressives who are insisting on a broadly unpopular spending plan and will not vote for the BIF without it. The progressive wing did not even win the Democratic presidential primary with Bernie And Elizabeth Warren; it is not where the majority of the party is.

The progressives are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. And as a result, they’re leaving Biden to twist in the wind while Dem candidates have little to run on.

It is truly baffling to me. (And yes, the same is true of the Republican Freedom Caucus on the right).

Totally agree. I just expressed my feelings OY (or OT - I can't keep track) in response to ThroatyBeard's pseudo-intellectual reach for a reason to be offended - the progressives are the downfall of this country. I am surrounded by them and their lack complete lack of compromise and self-awareness is really destructive. I am a big believer in the "lesser of two evils" theory and they just won't acknowledge that they have it really good with Biden and they are going to be responsible for Trump re-emerging and will be wishing they had Biden back. Their behavior just motivates the Republicans and pushes a lot of moderates to the right. I am left of center enough that that is unlikely to happen for me, particularly at the national level, but many others feel differently.

I really wish the progressives would stop looking for reasons to be offended and things to be angry about and speaking for those who don't want them speaking for them. There was a great column in the NY Times earlier this week about all of the new terms that the extreme left is pushing. There were hundreds of comments in the comment section (and most NYT commenters are pretty liberal) saying that this has gotten out of hand, and many of the comments were from members of groups that the new terms are supposed to help who hate them (such as a lot of people who are "Latinx" and "BiPOC" who hate the terms). While the progressives are worrying about this, the Republicans are packing the courts, winning down-ballot races, passing legislation that will increase their strangle-hold on a number of states, and unifying.

[OPK]

Independents and moderates decide elections. Biden has an easy win here with the bi-partisan infrastructure bill, but he has been thwarted by progressives who are insisting on a broadly unpopular spending plan and will not vote for the BIF without it. The progressive wing did not even win the Democratic presidential primary with Bernie And Elizabeth Warren; it is not where the majority of the party is.

The progressives are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. And as a result, they’re leaving Biden to twist in the wind while Dem candidates have little to run on.

It is truly baffling to me. (And yes, the same is true of the Republican Freedom Caucus on the right).

Totally agree. I just expressed my feelings OY (or OT - I can't keep track) in response to ThroatyBeard's pseudo-intellectual reach for a reason to be offended - the progressives are the downfall of this country. I am surrounded by them and their lack complete lack of compromise and self-awareness is really destructive. I am a big believer in the "lesser of two evils" theory and they just won't acknowledge that they have it really good with Biden and they are going to be responsible for Trump re-emerging and will be wishing they had Biden back. Their behavior just motivates the Republicans and pushes a lot of moderates to the right. I am left of center enough that that is unlikely to happen for me, particularly at the national level, but many others feel differently.

I really wish the progressives would stop looking for reasons to be offended and things to be angry about and speaking for those who don't want them speaking for them. There was a great column in the NY Times earlier this week about all of the new terms that the extreme left is pushing. There were hundreds of comments in the comment section (and most NYT commenters are pretty liberal) saying that this has gotten out of hand, and many of the comments were from members of groups that the new terms are supposed to help who hate them (such as a lot of people who are "Latinx" and "BiPOC" who hate the terms). While the progressives are worrying about this, the Republicans are packing the courts, winning down-ballot races, passing legislation that will increase their strangle-hold on a number of states, and unifying.

Brilliantly stated as always, CNC. Agree on every word, even though I am probably a bit to the right of you by your description. (I don’t recall Throaty’s specific post so I have no comment on it).

And most importantly, I share your fear that this bullshit increases the odds of a Trump victory in 2024. If anyone asked me who is giving the hardest “Let’s Go Brandon” to Biden, it is the House progressives who have threatened to vote down the BIF without a massive and largely unpopular BBB bill in the face of rising inflation and economic uncertainty. He and the Dems desperately needed a lifeline after the Afghanistan fiasco and the summer doldrums, and they’ve decided to play hardball instead against their own President. So astoundingly unpractical and provably damaging.

And as always, I respect those on both sides of my position that disagree. Unless you call me an ignorant imperialist passive racist for supporting the Braves, which already happened OY/T. Then, go fuck yourself.

[OPK]

^^ the last two sentences are obviously the royal “you,” not you CNC. Too late to edit, sadly.

There are things I do not like about the organization and history of the team. That does not mean that every person supporting a team adopts those faults as basic tenets of rooting for the team.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Independents and moderates decide elections. Biden has an easy win here with the bi-partisan infrastructure bill, but he has been thwarted by progressives who are insisting on a broadly unpopular spending plan and will not vote for the BIF without it. The progressive wing did not even win the Democratic presidential primary with Bernie And Elizabeth Warren; it is not where the majority of the party is.

The progressives are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. And as a result, they’re leaving Biden to twist in the wind while Dem candidates have little to run on.

It is truly baffling to me. (And yes, the same is true of the Republican Freedom Caucus on the right).

Totally agree. I just expressed my feelings OY (or OT - I can't keep track) in response to ThroatyBeard's pseudo-intellectual reach for a reason to be offended - the progressives are the downfall of this country. I am surrounded by them and their lack complete lack of compromise and self-awareness is really destructive. I am a big believer in the "lesser of two evils" theory and they just won't acknowledge that they have it really good with Biden and they are going to be responsible for Trump re-emerging and will be wishing they had Biden back. Their behavior just motivates the Republicans and pushes a lot of moderates to the right. I am left of center enough that that is unlikely to happen for me, particularly at the national level, but many others feel differently.

I really wish the progressives would stop looking for reasons to be offended and things to be angry about and speaking for those who don't want them speaking for them. There was a great column in the NY Times earlier this week about all of the new terms that the extreme left is pushing. There were hundreds of comments in the comment section (and most NYT commenters are pretty liberal) saying that this has gotten out of hand, and many of the comments were from members of groups that the new terms are supposed to help who hate them (such as a lot of people who are "Latinx" and "BiPOC" who hate the terms). While the progressives are worrying about this, the Republicans are packing the courts, winning down-ballot races, passing legislation that will increase their strangle-hold on a number of states, and unifying.

Brilliantly stated as always, CNC. Agree on every word, even though I am probably a bit to the right of you by your description. (I don’t recall Throaty’s specific post so I have no comment on it).

And most importantly, I share your fear that this bullshit increases the odds of a Trump victory in 2024. If anyone asked me who is giving the hardest “Let’s Go Brandon” to Biden, it is the House progressives who have threatened to vote down the BIF without a massive and largely unpopular BBB bill in the face of rising inflation and economic uncertainty. He and the Dems desperately needed a lifeline after the Afghanistan fiasco and the summer doldrums, and they’ve decided to play hardball instead against their own President. So astoundingly unpractical and provably damaging.

And as always, I respect those on both sides of my position that disagree. Unless you call me an ignorant imperialist passive racist for supporting the Braves, which already happened OY/T. Then, go fuck yourself.

Not offended - I knew that wasn't directed at me. I read the post you are referring to and missed the last sentence so didn't quite get why everyone was getting so worked up about it. Then I read the last sentence and I got it. And I agree with you completely.

Throaty's post that I referred to was "Also I'm pretty sure the CEO guy referred to Niekro and Aaron, as "boys," which is not a good look when you're referring to any Black man, much less pretty much the most revered one in Georgia history." That is looking for trouble when none exists. Particularly since it was referring to two people, one of whom is white. And particularly since it is so on form for him.

The progressives do not understand the concept of compromise. They are bullying Biden to get their way. There are plenty of nuggets in the plan for them. And guess what - the plan that might get passed is a heck of a lot better for them than what they will get when Trump or his chosen successor takes office in 2024. Or even what they will get in a year when the Republicans likely take control of congress, thanks to them.

The problem is, I'm not sure what to do to solve this problem. I wish Bernie, Warren, AOC and the other "leaders" of that wing would talk some sense into them. I try to minimize my time on Facebook, but lately I have found my progressive friends (of which I have many) to be almost as miserable as my Republican friends (of which I have few). I just saw that one super-progressive high school classmate of mine posted that in response to yesterday's misery, she and some of her friends are organizing a protest on behalf of some group that they think is marginalized. Notice that so often it is "on behalf of" and not "with" - it makes her feel really good to help people who aren't necessarily asking for help. It is like when Al Sharpton shows up to offer support to someone who has suffered a tragic loss. He isn't offering support. He is turning it into a circus and making it all about himself.

End of rant. Go Duke. The one benefit at the moment of living in woke central is that it is a few miles from MSG so I will get to manage through my depression by cheering for Duke to beat the McConnells.

[OPK]

Not offended - I knew that wasn't directed at me. I read the post you are referring to and missed the last sentence so didn't quite get why everyone was getting so worked up about it. Then I read the last sentence and I got it. And I agree with you completely.

Throaty's post that I referred to was "Also I'm pretty sure the CEO guy referred to Niekro and Aaron, as "boys," which is not a good look when you're referring to any Black man, much less pretty much the most revered one in Georgia history." That is looking for trouble when none exists. Particularly since it was referring to two people, one of whom is white. And particularly since it is so on form for him.

The progressives do not understand the concept of compromise. They are bullying Biden to get their way. There are plenty of nuggets in the plan for them. And guess what - the plan that might get passed is a heck of a lot better for them than what they will get when Trump or his chosen successor takes office in 2024. Or even what they will get in a year when the Republicans likely take control of congress, thanks to them.

The problem is, I'm not sure what to do to solve this problem. I wish Bernie, Warren, AOC and the other "leaders" of that wing would talk some sense into them. I try to minimize my time on Facebook, but lately I have found my progressive friends (of which I have many) to be almost as miserable as my Republican friends (of which I have few). I just saw that one super-progressive high school classmate of mine posted that in response to yesterday's misery, she and some of her friends are organizing a protest on behalf of some group that they think is marginalized. Notice that so often it is "on behalf of" and not "with" - it makes her feel really good to help people who aren't necessarily asking for help. It is like when Al Sharpton shows up to offer support to someone who has suffered a tragic loss. He isn't offering support. He is turning it into a circus and making it all about himself.

End of rant. Go Duke. The one benefit at the moment of living in woke central is that it is a few miles from MSG so I will get to manage through my depression by cheering for Duke to beat the McConnells.

Again, I wholly agree and am glad you took my post in the way intended. We are in (sad) agreement.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Not offended - I knew that wasn't directed at me. I read the post you are referring to and missed the last sentence so didn't quite get why everyone was getting so worked up about it. Then I read the last sentence and I got it. And I agree with you completely.

Throaty's post that I referred to was "Also I'm pretty sure the CEO guy referred to Niekro and Aaron, as "boys," which is not a good look when you're referring to any Black man, much less pretty much the most revered one in Georgia history." That is looking for trouble when none exists. Particularly since it was referring to two people, one of whom is white. And particularly since it is so on form for him.

The progressives do not understand the concept of compromise. They are bullying Biden to get their way. There are plenty of nuggets in the plan for them. And guess what - the plan that might get passed is a heck of a lot better for them than what they will get when Trump or his chosen successor takes office in 2024. Or even what they will get in a year when the Republicans likely take control of congress, thanks to them.

The problem is, I'm not sure what to do to solve this problem. I wish Bernie, Warren, AOC and the other "leaders" of that wing would talk some sense into them. I try to minimize my time on Facebook, but lately I have found my progressive friends (of which I have many) to be almost as miserable as my Republican friends (of which I have few). I just saw that one super-progressive high school classmate of mine posted that in response to yesterday's misery, she and some of her friends are organizing a protest on behalf of some group that they think is marginalized. Notice that so often it is "on behalf of" and not "with" - it makes her feel really good to help people who aren't necessarily asking for help. It is like when Al Sharpton shows up to offer support to someone who has suffered a tragic loss. He isn't offering support. He is turning it into a circus and making it all about himself.

End of rant. Go Duke. The one benefit at the moment of living in woke central is that it is a few miles from MSG so I will get to manage through my depression by cheering for Duke to beat the McConnells.

Again, I wholly agree and am glad you took my post in the way intended. We are in (sad) agreement.

The best description of life right now is the famous song "clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am stuck in the middle with you."

[CameronBornAndBred]

Independents and moderates decide elections. Biden has an easy win here with the bi-partisan infrastructure bill, but he has been thwarted by progressives who are insisting on a broadly unpopular spending plan and will not vote for the BIF without it. The progressive wing did not even win the Democratic presidential primary with Bernie And Elizabeth Warren; it is not where the majority of the party is.

The progressives are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. And as a result, they’re leaving Biden to twist in the wind while Dem candidates have little to run on.

It is truly baffling to me. (And yes, the same is true of the Republican Freedom Caucus on the right).

[OPK]

From Politico this morning:

NYT’s Jonathan Martin and Alexander Burns have a story about the Democratic Party “reeling” from the election results, including quotes from two House Democrats who were particularly candid.

— Rep. ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, a vulnerable Virginia Democrat, said Biden needs to remember that he won in 2020 first and foremost because his name was not DONALD TRUMP, and adjust his expectations accordingly: “Nobody elected him to be FDR, they elected him to be normal and stop the chaos.”

— Rep. KATHLEEN RICE (D-N.Y.) was even more blunt: “I don’t understand some of my more progressive colleagues saying [that Tuesday] night now shows us that what we need to do is get both of these bills done and shove even more progressive stuff in … What we’re talking about is not resonating with voters.”

https://www.politico.com/playbook

Agreed.

[Phredd3]

The best description of life right now is the famous song "clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am stuck in the middle with you."

I'm not even a centrist and I feel this way. My friend described me once as "left of Pete" (meaning Pete Seeger), but there's no way I'd be standing in the way of a solidly left of center bill just to try to push through some nationally unpopular progressive agenda. Compromise is how a democracy is supposed to get things done, and if you can't sell your ideas to a majority, you need to know where you stand and get what you can. Dems are going to get trashed in the mid-terms at this rate, and then Biden will REALLY get nothing done. For years and years now Republicans have been very good at stonewalling until the works get so gummed up that elections change the political climate. They've been doing this for more than 30 years, and they are very, very good at it.

And for the same 30 years, Democrats have not adjusted to this game.

[OPK]

James Carville blames losses in “stupid wokeness”:

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/5799 ... tic-losses

Progressives fire back against the moderates:

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/0 ... ame-519445

I think any hope of the D.C. Dems getting their act together is pretty slim. Get ready for a GOP tidal wave in twelve months.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

James Carville blames losses in “stupid wokeness”:

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/5799 ... tic-losses

Progressives fire back against the moderates:

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/0 ... ame-519445

I think any hope of the D.C. Dems getting their act together is pretty slim. Get ready for a GOP tidal wave in twelve months.

Next November is going to be brutal. I find it frustrating for the Progressives to say "moderates like Manchin and Sinema are at fault." No - Manchin and Sinema are DINOs (Democrats in Name Only). The moderates are the rest of the party.

Part of the appeal of Biden (besides not being Trump) was that he was an experienced DC dealmaker. Unfortunately, he clearly misjudged what he was up against within his own party.

I still find it amazing how unlike the Democrats, the Republicans just fall in line, no questions asked (other than the few representatives who speak up). And they are perfect at staying on message, while having no moral issues with bending the truth to meet their needs. While the Dems bicker over what to rename a building previously named after a President, what statue to tear down, or what termination for an "oppressed" group is most offensive.

[dudog]

Fear not (maybe). The Supreme Court is going to throw Ds a lifeline. Pretty sure they're going to throw out or severely undercut Roe, and there's virtually no woman capable of having a baby today that knows anything other than having her reproductive rights. The Rs are the dog who caught the car, only to be run over by it.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Fear not (maybe). The Supreme Court is going to throw Ds a lifeline. Pretty sure they're going to throw out or severely undercut Roe, and there's virtually no woman capable of having a baby today that knows anything other than having her reproductive rights. The Rs are the dog who caught the car, only to be run over by it.

IANAL, but from what I understand, the Texas case is a dumpster fire with so much going on beyond just abortion. If the court lets it stand as is, it will open some huge cans of worms. If the Dems are smart and well organized (which is a huge if given their recent behavior), they can turn it around and institute similar legal procedures around gun ownership in blue states, and there will be a rapid descent into chaos and state's rights in their purest form (which some people don't think is a bad thing). I think the Supreme Court will be smart enough to not let this happen, though it will be interesting if it goes 5-4 and who gets volunteered to be the fifth vote.

The Mississippi case coming up behind this one is the interesting one. As I understand it, the abortion limits aren't as restrictive as the Texas one (I think it sets a 15 week barrier rather than six) but upholding it likely means overturning Roe, which would thus allow other states to put in restrictions. Someone else can likely explain this a lot better than I am.

I agree that the whole thing is a mess, and that the Dems might lose the battle but win the war. But in order to win the war, they would need to learn to message like Republicans, because Republicans are dramatically better at messaging than Democrats, partially because they are better at spin, and partially because they have fewer moral qualms about stretching the truth.

And Breyer really needs to retire. Now.

[CameronBornAndBred]

If the Dems are smart and well organized

But in order to win the war, they would need to learn to message like Republicans, because Republicans are dramatically better at messaging than Democrats, partially because they are better at spin, and partially because they have fewer moral qualms about stretching the truth.

Totally agree.

[Phredd3]

Breyer really needs to retire. Now.

I have really mixed feelings on this. It's a lifetime appointment for a reason, but I really think it is going to be tough for the country if he were to have any kind of severe health issues anywhere from late next year through the end of Biden's term, and possibly all the way through 2028. That's a long time. I also wonder about Sotomayor. She is much younger, but has long been in relatively poor health for her age. Republican's have shown that the gloves are off when it comes to absolutely everything, most especially the judiciary. "Comity" is a dead word. Such a thing no longer exists.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Breyer really needs to retire. Now.

I have really mixed feelings on this. It's a lifetime appointment for a reason, but I really think it is going to be tough for the country if he were to have any kind of severe health issues anywhere from late next year through the end of Biden's term, and possibly all the way through 2028. That's a long time. I also wonder about Sotomayor. She is much younger, but has long been in relatively poor health for her age. Republican's have shown that the gloves are off when it comes to absolutely everything, most especially the judiciary. "Comity" is a dead word. Such a thing no longer exists.

I have no doubt that when the GOP controls the Senate again in '22 that it won't matter if every SCOTUS judge retires. They will not hold a confirmation hearing, even if they have to sit on it through the remainder of Biden's term.