The Official "WWWD?" Thread

[windsor]

Here is the trick to getting out and not facing their wrath - make it seem like it is in their best interest to NOT have you involved. I am not sure how you are going to that (perhaps you can use the 'boss pays my salary' angle somehow) But if you can make it think that gee golly I would just be all a flutter to be involved but, well bless your heart, because of the boss...and you know it being Tuesday and all...y'all might want to find someone else - you know someone who can make you their number 1 priority.

As for MacGyver - there are ways to tell people something and NOT actually tell them. paint a picture...put the dots close together. Don't connect them. You denial is "I did not discuss the instrument deal with MacGyver". Denial is honest...and specific.

[ArkieDukie]

There's also, "I cannot tell you, but there are notes from a phone call on my desk. Oh, look; there are the meeting notes as well. My, I'm feeling awfully thirsty all of a sudden. I'll be right back."

MacGyver has already been cut out of the project. That became official with the huge financial gift; I wouldn't need to tell him any more than that. Question is, will Road Runner tell that to the instrument company rep that's arranging the deal? The one that worked for MacGyver as a postdoc? Truth is, I think this deal was more for MacGyver and I than for Road Runner. She just jumped in and took it over. She will keep all parties in the dark for as long as possible because it is in her best interest to do so.

[windsor]

There's also, "I cannot tell you, but there are notes from a phone call on my desk. Oh, look; there are the meeting notes as well. My, I'm feeling awfully thirsty all of a sudden. I'll be right back."

MacGyver has already been cut out of the project. That became official with the huge financial gift; I wouldn't need to tell him any more than that. Question is, will Road Runner tell that to the instrument company rep that's arranging the deal? The one that worked for MacGyver as a postdoc? Truth is, I think this deal was more for MacGyver and I than for Road Runner. She just jumped in and took it over. She will keep all parties in the dark for as long as possible because it is in her best interest to do so.

I had a friend WAY back (when people used a rolodex) who was an IRS agent. Of course agents couldn't recommend CPA's for folks that might need one, but they could leave the rolodex conveniently open to a CPA's name and numberr and then go get a cup of coffee...

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I had a friend WAY back (when people used a rolodex) who was an IRS agent. Of course agents couldn't recommend CPA's for folks that might need one, but they could leave the rolodex conveniently open to a CPA's name and numberr and then go get a cup of coffee...

He or she was human?

[Lavabe]

I'm a little confused...

I am too. Who is Red Dragon?

[ArkieDukie]

I'm a little confused...

I am too. Who is Red Dragon?

Red Dragon may have been introduced in another thread. She is the vice-chair of my department and also happens to be the chair of the departmental promotion and tenure committee. She and The Boss do not get along at all. RD was acting chair before The Boss was hired and was a holy terror, from all accounts. That would be why she never made it past acting chair. She has a long and distinguished history of systematically destroying those who anger her. People are afraid of her. In fact, a friend who knows all involved parties says that getting on Red Dragon's shit list is worse than ticking off The Boss. Road Runner's current actions toward MacGyver are classic Red Dragon modus operandi, from what I have heard. Road Runner and Red Dragon have gotten tight over the past few months, and they are incredibly dangerous together.

[ArkieDukie]

For those of you who read LTE, I had a bit of excitement at work today. I was chatting with Road Runner and asked her, flat-out, what my role is going to be in the special project she's cooking up with Red Dragon. I told her that I had done the math regarding the new positions she mentioned and there wasn't one for me. She stuttered and stammered a bit and ultimately said that she was looking out for me because The Boss had told her that my position might have to be cut due to campus-wide budget cuts. I was a bit freaked but then wiser heads prevailed. I texted MacGyver (who, as it happens, is at Duke for a conference this week); his immediate response was, "I think she's lying. You should ask The Boss." Another colleague said the same thing. So, when I had a chance, I asked. He was stunned. Gave me a bit of a short answer and then stopped by my office again upon his return. Apparently my salary is covered by some of his discretionary funds and is not impacted by the budget cuts. He also said that he would NEVER have such a conversation with Road Runner before talking to me. He did not understand why she would say such a thing - in fact, he said it was cruel. I said I suspected she was not telling the truth, which is why I asked him. I told him that their has been "some weirdness" lately with Road Runner. He said that she had said the same thing about MacGyver. (yep - confirms that she is trying to get him canned) I told him I can only report what I have observed directly, and I have seen Road Runner openly bad-mouthing MacGyver. I also told him that he needs to talk with MacGyver about what is happening. I also mentioned Road Runner lying to me about Bar Minion's analysis. Didn't even finish the story; he said that she is operating under an industry mentality still. Overall a good conversation, but he has not heard everything she's doing. I seriously think she has flipped her lid.

So, windsor et al, how much should I reveal to The Boss? Is it time to have a sit-down with him regarding her under the table, behind his back deal with Red Dragon, so that he can have the context for her comment about my job? I will also say that I have very serious doubts about all the conversations that Road Runner has allegedly had with The Boss. Do I let Road Runner know that I'm aware of her latest lie, or continue to play dumb?

I have not revealed to her yet that I am removing myself from her little project. This was on the advice of a colleague who knows all parties involved and says that I cannot afford to draw the wrath of Red Dragon. I am trying to think of a way to spin today's incident as an out.

[windsor]

I would tell him everything. Everything that you have personal knowledge of. I would make it as matter of fact an unemotional as possible I would include general time frames and name other parties who were there. I would encourage him to speak to other parties not named Bar Minion. I would mention (to those I trust) that you have had this conversation (no details) and let hem know that The Boss may be speaking to them. Tell them only that you have told him the truth about those thing you know of.

Next, you need to remove the only bullet road runner has in her gun. You need to let the boss know that you were sucked in to the first instrument deal that went south. Describe it as an error in judgement, say you were relieved when it fell through the first time and had become uncomfortable with it. Minimize your involvement as much as possible while being truthful. Apologize for not coming to him with it. You will neutralize any counter assault she can launch and all your cards will be on the table.

Be as unemotional and matter of fact as you can. The best attitude is frustration and disappointment not resentment and anger.

[Turk]

Hmm... I propose a slightly different tack, depending on how much you trust The Boss. His response seems reasonable, and it sounds like he has no intention of cutting your position for budget reasons. You already planted the seed when you suggested that he talk to MacGyver (well done!). I say let that play out, and let The Boss do his own digging. Give MacGyver the heads-up (if you haven't already). Hold off on spilling the beans about the rest of it.

I do like Windsor's idea to tell the Boss about the first instrument deal that went south. Good to clear the air on that, remove a potential hazard, and keep your options open for the next move. So when you need to hit the eject button on this new instrument deal, and get his backing to avoid any fallout, you've already laid the groundwork. I'd want to stall Red Dragon and RR as long as possible, and tell them as little as possible. Good time to be very busy and unavailable.

If you trust him, ask the boss for advice when you need it, especially "this little dilemma I have about a new instrument deal that you might have heard something about."

So here is my question: Who (if anyone) in the management of that whole three-ring circus over there is watching your back? If RR is your direct supervisor then you need to add her latest (implied) threat about budget cuts to your pile of hostile workplace evidence. I trust by now you have had a conversation with your local HR person about all the lies, fraud, and retaliation.

[DukieInKansas]

Turk beat me to it with his last paragraph - I was wondering if her latest lie was more ammunition on the HR hostile work environment front.

It certainly sounds to me like the place would be better off with more ADs and less RRs/RDs/BMs.

[windsor]

Turk beat me to it with his last paragraph - I was wondering if her latest lie was more ammunition on the HR hostile work environment front.

It certainly sounds to me like the place would be better off with more ADs and less RRs/RDs/BMs.

I have been beating the HR drum - this really needs to be escalated to that level.

[Turk]

Agreed. Windsor is absolutely right. There are a lot of red flags here that HR should be able to figure out that this isn't just an issue about saying please and thank you, and taking turns on the swingset. "Hostile work environment" and "threat of retaliation" sounds about right to me. My only reservation is that I have not personally walked down that road myself, so I cannot speak from experience, but they have laws and rules and other things like that nowadays,

[Lavabe]

This hostile environment sucks, but which is worse: this or dealing with academic integrity issues? Remember those days?

[ArkieDukie]

This hostile environment sucks, but which is worse: this or dealing with academic integrity issues? Remember those days?

All in all, it's really not as bad as that was. The only similar factor is an overly ambitious sycophant of a rival whose behavior is enabled by her boss. I used to think this particular boss (Road Runner) was smarter than to fall for such things. I now know better.

Did not have a chance to chat further with The Boss before departing. Will be interesting to see what has gone down in my absence. A little birdie told me that Road Runner interviewed a local scientist while I was out of town. It's the person she mentioned hiring for the project with the instrument company. While at the conference, I heard from someone with the instrument company that they are sending one of their people to visit with Road Runner about her project. I had not heard anything about it at all. This pretty much confirms that she's replacing me on the deal, which I had already figured out.

At this point in time, I really do not even want to work with Road Runner any more. The big problem I have now is that she out-and-out lied to me on multiple occasions. Not only do I no longer believe anything she says, I now doubt everything she has ever told me. This does not make for a healthy working relationship. All the recent lies have left a really bad taste in my mouth. I just need to see if The Boss can pick up the portion of my salary that Road Runner is currently paying. If not, I may be stuck with her.

I have received a couple of emails from RR over the past few days relating to what I now think of as the consolation prize project. I really do not know at all why I'm being included in this work, unless she expects me to manually verify a bunch of data for her. She can't trust Bar Minion to do it (and she believes this type of work is beneath her), and no one else likes to do it. At some point after I return I need to have a "what exactly do you expect me to do on this project" chat with her. Might get it in writing instead, given past history.

[ArkieDukie]

I finally got up the nerve to ask Road Runner about Bar Minion's paper. She says that it's only over a subset of the data and that there's absolutely zero overlap with what I have done. I have not responded yet. I really want to ask the logic behind lying to me about not trusting Bar Minion's work. I'd also like to tell her that all the lies she has told up to this point makes it really difficult to believe anything she says. Is it better to lay this particular fact out there, or do I continue to pretend I trust her? The advantage of playing stupid is that she does idiotic things like lie to me about The Boss' intentions regarding my job. Of course, the upside of telling her is that I might be able to scare her into getting her act together. What are your thoughts, windsor et al?

Of course, the big lie about my job being in danger is still out there...

[Lavabe]

I finally got up the nerve to ask Road Runner about Bar Minion's paper. She says that it's only over a subset of the data and that there's absolutely zero overlap with what I have done. I have not responded yet. I really want to ask the logic behind lying to me about not trusting Bar Minion's work. I'd also like to tell her that all the lies she has told up to this point makes it really difficult to believe anything she says. Is it better to lay this particular fact out there, or do I continue to pretend I trust her? The advantage of playing stupid is that she does idiotic things like lie to me about The Boss' intentions regarding my job. Of course, the upside of telling her is that I might be able to scare her into getting her act together. What are your thoughts, windsor et al?

Of course, the big lie about my job being in danger is still out there...

Feh... you're not scaring her straight. She has no reason to change... unfortunately.

[ArkieDukie]

I finally got up the nerve to ask Road Runner about Bar Minion's paper. She says that it's only over a subset of the data and that there's absolutely zero overlap with what I have done. I have not responded yet. I really want to ask the logic behind lying to me about not trusting Bar Minion's work. I'd also like to tell her that all the lies she has told up to this point makes it really difficult to believe anything she says. Is it better to lay this particular fact out there, or do I continue to pretend I trust her? The advantage of playing stupid is that she does idiotic things like lie to me about The Boss' intentions regarding my job. Of course, the upside of telling her is that I might be able to scare her into getting her act together. What are your thoughts, windsor et al?

Of course, the big lie about my job being in danger is still out there...

Feh... you're not scaring her straight. She has no reason to change... unfortunately.

Probably true, and it's too bad. If anything, she is getting worse. Hell hath no fury, etc.

Something has always bothered me about her - do any of the rest of you ever have the feeling in the pit of your stomach about people you should not trust? I tried to ignore it for a long time, mostly because I do trust MacGyver and didn't think he'd be involved with someone who's so manipulative and dishonest. Very stupid of me - I should know better than to ignore my gut.

[windsor]

I finally got up the nerve to ask Road Runner about Bar Minion's paper. She says that it's only over a subset of the data and that there's absolutely zero overlap with what I have done. I have not responded yet. I really want to ask the logic behind lying to me about not trusting Bar Minion's work. I'd also like to tell her that all the lies she has told up to this point makes it really difficult to believe anything she says. Is it better to lay this particular fact out there, or do I continue to pretend I trust her? The advantage of playing stupid is that she does idiotic things like lie to me about The Boss' intentions regarding my job. Of course, the upside of telling her is that I might be able to scare her into getting her act together. What are your thoughts, windsor et al?

Of course, the big lie about my job being in danger is still out there...

Feh... you're not scaring her straight. She has no reason to change... unfortunately.

Probably true, and it's too bad. If anything, she is getting worse. Hell hath no fury, etc.

Something has always bothered me about her - do any of the rest of you ever have the feeling in the pit of your stomach about people you should not trust? I tried to ignore it for a long time, mostly because I do trust MacGyver and didn't think he'd be involved with someone who's so manipulative and dishonest. Very stupid of me - I should know better than to ignore my gut.

Yes, I get very strong gut reactions to people. When I have ignored those feelings to give someone the 'benefit of of the doubt' it has never ended well. ever.

[ArkieDukie]

Turk beat me to it with his last paragraph - I was wondering if her latest lie was more ammunition on the HR hostile work environment front.

It certainly sounds to me like the place would be better off with more ADs and less RRs/RDs/BMs.

As it turns out, going to HR is a very bad idea at my current place of employment. Complaints that are filed are NOT kept confidential. I had heard rumblings of this, so I was worried about talking with them. Very recently, someone I know filed a hostile workplace complaint against a couple of other administrative staff members who were openly badmouthing her (in fact, they are trying to get her fired). The HR person went straight to the administrative staff people and said, "Person X (and they used her name) filed a hostile workplace complaint against you." They have since proceeded to make her life even more difficult. So, it's a good thing I hadn't gone to HR yet. Things would be even worse if I had done so. I think that talking to The Boss is the best I can do. Why go to HR when the consequences are worse for the person filing the complaint?

Road Runner is getting worse all the time. Popular opinion is that she is completely losing her mind. For example, I checked my email this morning and found a nasty gram from RR to everyone in her lab, sent late last night (I was cc'd). Apparently it has come to her attention that people are not wearing appropriate attire in the lab. Anyone caught in the lab without safety glasses and a lab coat, and also not wearing long pants and shoes with covered toes, will be immediately dismissed (employees) or given a failing grade (students). The note contained multiple underlined passages and one with highlighting. The Boss was copied. This is not going to help the morale among her people at all.

[DukePA]

Turk beat me to it with his last paragraph - I was wondering if her latest lie was more ammunition on the HR hostile work environment front.

It certainly sounds to me like the place would be better off with more ADs and less RRs/RDs/BMs.

As it turns out, going to HR is a very bad idea at my current place of employment. Complaints that are filed are NOT kept confidential. I had heard rumblings of this, so I was worried about talking with them. Very recently, someone I know filed a hostile workplace complaint against a couple of other administrative staff members who were openly badmouthing her (in fact, they are trying to get her fired). The HR person went straight to the administrative staff people and said, "Person X (and they used her name) filed a hostile workplace complaint against you." They have since proceeded to make her life even more difficult. So, it's a good thing I hadn't gone to HR yet. Things would be even worse if I had done so. I think that talking to The Boss is the best I can do. Why go to HR when the consequences are worse for the person filing the complaint?

Road Runner is getting worse all the time. Popular opinion is that she is completely losing her mind. For example, I checked my email this morning and found a nasty gram from RR to everyone in her lab, sent late last night (I was cc'd). Apparently it has come to her attention that people are not wearing appropriate attire in the lab. Anyone caught in the lab without safety glasses and a lab coat, and also not wearing long pants and shoes with covered toes, will be immediately dismissed (employees) or given a failing grade (students). The note contained multiple underlined passages and one with highlighting. The Boss was copied. This is not going to help the morale among her people at all.

Good for you for listening to that wise inner voice and not going to HR.