The Official "WWWD?" Thread

[CathyCA]

You need to work somewhere else. Again.

QFE

[windsor]

You need to work somewhere else. Again.

I think you may be right, Ozzie. Makes me sad. Also not good because I've been here for less than 2 years. I am concerned that will become increasingly difficult for me to get a job, with the frequent job changes.

Of course, with the amount of time it took for me to find my last job (roughly a year), I can start looking now and likely will not find anything immediately.

I would begin looking.
How long were you at our prior job - if you were at that one a while you can easily deal with the short duration of this job without it reflecting badly.

[ArkieDukie]

You need to work somewhere else. Again.

I think you may be right, Ozzie. Makes me sad. Also not good because I've been here for less than 2 years. I am concerned that will become increasingly difficult for me to get a job, with the frequent job changes.

Of course, with the amount of time it took for me to find my last job (roughly a year), I can start looking now and likely will not find anything immediately.

I would begin looking.
How long were you at our prior job - if you were at that one a while you can easily deal with the short duration of this job without it reflecting badly.

I was at my last job for just under 4 years.

Tomorrow should be interesting. Road Runner has scheduled a meeting, tomorrow at 2:00, with her postdoc and myself. The purpose of the meeting is to "clarify our bioinformatic strategy going forward." That should be fun.

Wonder what brought this on. Is it a reaction to my statement that I wouldn't be a coauthor on Bar Minion's paper and I would prefer that she not be allowed to use my work, or did Postdoc reveal to her that Bar Minion arranged for information to be withheld so Postdoc wouldn't be able to do the analysis that she was supposed to do but Bar Minion wanted to do? I suspect it's the former, but I cannot wait for her to find out the latter.

[windsor]

4 years is a good time frame. I wouldn't worry about how long you've been at this job...find a way to spin it as a decision you gave a fair trial to that didn't work out...and it doesn't have to be job related, you could just not like Texas..

[Lavabe]

4 years is a good time frame. I wouldn't worry about how long you've been at this job...find a way to spin it as a decision you gave a fair trial to that didn't work out...and it doesn't have to be job related, you could just not like Texas..

Agreed completely with you on this, Windsor.

Likewise, if you go for a tenure-track position, no one will question you at all about a move from where you are.

[ArkieDukie]

We had an interesting meeting, but my guard is still up. Road Runner alleges that Bar Minion kept her completely in the dark about what she was doing, and that she had Bar Minion make the presentation last Tuesday because she wanted to get an expert's opinion on Bar Minion's work. The particular expert whose opinion Road Runner wanted was the one who got the infamous answer, "I don't know. I will have to ask my husband." I'm not at all confident that Road Runner was as out of the loop as she says; I don't think she remembers telling me she had given Road Runner this project to work on. In any event, Road Runner noticed that Bar Minion had not done most of the work, and she also noticed Bar Minion and her co-conspirator working together at the conference last week. Road Runner pointed out that Bar Minion is not a coauthor on our upcoming paper (it's a methods paper; I'm bazillionth author and there's a paragraph on my work) and that she has absolutely no confidence in the work that Bar Minion presented. The paper on Bar Minion's work? Road Runner says she's writing that for her English class.

So, it may all be okay but I'm still maintaining a healthy dose of skepticism.

Tomorrow should be fun: Wile E. Coyote is lecturing in the class that I've been teaching in. I think I will need some botox injections in my face before class to keep from cracking up. Road Runner thinks we've brainwashed our students enough that they will recognize WEC's work for what it is and will crucify him. RR compared it to the crowd gathering around the guillotine during the French Revolution. I may need to pop some popcorn in preparation for the show.

[DukieInKansas]

Is the lecture being live streamed for those of us that want to pay along at home?

[ArkieDukie]

Is the lecture being live streamed for those of us that want to pay along at home?

Unfortunately not. Ah, the money we could make!

[windsor]

We had an interesting meeting, but my guard is still up. Road Runner alleges that Bar Minion kept her completely in the dark about what she was doing, and that she had Bar Minion make the presentation last Tuesday because she wanted to get an expert's opinion on Bar Minion's work. The particular expert whose opinion Road Runner wanted was the one who got the infamous answer, "I don't know. I will have to ask my husband." I'm not at all confident that Road Runner was as out of the loop as she says; I don't think she remembers telling me she had given Road Runner this project to work on. In any event, Road Runner noticed that Bar Minion had not done most of the work, and she also noticed Bar Minion and her co-conspirator working together at the conference last week. Road Runner pointed out that Bar Minion is not a coauthor on our upcoming paper (it's a methods paper; I'm bazillionth author and there's a paragraph on my work) and that she has absolutely no confidence in the work that Bar Minion presented. The paper on Bar Minion's work? Road Runner says she's writing that for her English class.

So, it may all be okay but I'm still maintaining a healthy dose of skepticism.

Tomorrow should be fun: Wile E. Coyote is lecturing in the class that I've been teaching in. I think I will need some botox injections in my face before class to keep from cracking up. Road Runner thinks we've brainwashed our students enough that they will recognize WEC's work for what it is and will crucify him. RR compared it to the crowd gathering around the guillotine during the French Revolution. I may need to pop some popcorn in preparation for the show.

With Road Runner the ticket it is to ACT like you believe her while maintianing a fully fucntional bullshit filter.

I hope WEC runs into the side of a cliff while riding an ACME Rocket tomorrow.

[Turk]

It seems to me there's still a couple of unresolved items here, although events seem to be trending favorably.

One possible interpretation of the whole circus is that Road Runner is content or wise enough to play you and Bar Minion off against each other. I'm reading some "she said / she said", but I'm not reading anything that "clarifies the bioinformatic strategy going forward" in your summary of the meeting.

Forget about WEC, and forget about Bar Minion. Let them sink or swim on their own (lack of) merit. You need to be clear on your own operating rules of engagement. What are the primary research objectives of the deparment (based on current knowledge and funding)? What is the process for you to volunteer / be assigned to / work on the various projects in your department, and what is the process for making sure you have (or have access to) the appropriate instruments to conduct said research? What control do you have for hiring / inviting / collaborating with others in the group? If you are not comfortable with the answers (or can't answer) those questions, then it's time to move on to a better opportunity. (It might be intriguing and lucrative to join that fancy instrument company as a technical consultant).

(In all honesty, I'm a bit confused at this point whether RR is your direct supervisor or not... ) Anyway, you need to make sure you're on solid ground with your own work, and maintain skepticism as needed based on the latest set of events. Windsor is spot-on as always - make sure all filters are tuned and operational. Cut down the drama, trust the karma boomerang, and let your work speak for itself. Simplify, simplfy, simplify....

[ArkieDukie]

It seems to me there's still a couple of unresolved items here, although events seem to be trending favorably.

One possible interpretation of the whole circus is that Road Runner is content or wise enough to play you and Bar Minion off against each other. I'm reading some "she said / she said", but I'm not reading anything that "clarifies the bioinformatic strategy going forward" in your summary of the meeting.

Forget about WEC, and forget about Bar Minion. Let them sink or swim on their own (lack of) merit. You need to be clear on your own operating rules of engagement. What are the primary research objectives of the deparment (based on current knowledge and funding)? What is the process for you to volunteer / be assigned to / work on the various projects in your department, and what is the process for making sure you have (or have access to) the appropriate instruments to conduct said research? What control do you have for hiring / inviting / collaborating with others in the group? If you are not comfortable with the answers (or can't answer) those questions, then it's time to move on to a better opportunity. (It might be intriguing and lucrative to join that fancy instrument company as a technical consultant).

(In all honesty, I'm a bit confused at this point whether RR is your direct supervisor or not... ) Anyway, you need to make sure you're on solid ground with your own work, and maintain skepticism as needed based on the latest set of events. Windsor is spot-on as always - make sure all filters are tuned and operational. Cut down the drama, trust the karma boomerang, and let your work speak for itself. Simplify, simplfy, simplify....

Turk, as always, you are proving to be a voice of reason and provide some wise advice.

Basically, Road Runner said that Bar Minion is NOT a part of the plan for the work that the postdoc and I are doing and that she doesn't trust "Bar Minion's" analysis. If this is really true, then all is good. Filter is in place, though.

Your advice reminds me of "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People." Focus on what you can impact and leave everything/everyone else alone. One reason I keep a sharp eye on Wile E. Coyote, though, is that he has The Boss' ear more so than anyone else in the department. He views me as his competition, so he does everything he can to make me look bad. I avoid him like the plague as much as I can. Bar Minion is the same way to some extent. Fortunately, Road Runner has (I think) figured this out about her. Sad thing is, Bar Minion is pretty much a pariah in Road Runner's group because she has gone out of her way to try to get her coworkers in trouble. No one wants to be around her because they never know for sure which direction the knife is going to come from. In summary, for both WEC and Bar Minion, I'm watching partially to know which direction the knives might come from. Otherwise it's pure entertainment. You're actually getting the entertainment side of it. I'm usually far too busy when I'm at work to worry about either of them. I'm sure it doesn't sound that way, though.

Road Runner pays a part of my salary, so in a way she is my boss. Really, though, she's more of a collaborator. The Boss is really my direct supervisor. My job is a bit of a strange one in that it really involves collaborating with as many of my colleagues as possible/reasonable in order to help progress their research. I talk mostly about Road Runner because that's who I do the most work for, but I also collaborate with others in my department. The goal is to strengthen their research and help them get publications and grant money. I do not have lab space (was supposed to get a bench in Wile E. Coyote's lab), and I really don't have access to the instrumentation that I need (although The Boss is telling people that I do). That's an issue and is why I've focused more on data analysis. Splitting time between running an instrument and doing data analysis is somewhat difficult, so in a way it's okay.

[ArkieDukie]

Not sure if this is the best place for an update on "As the Bunsen Burns," but it's a continuation of the previously mentioned saga.

I got a phone call this morning from a VERY unhappy Road Runner. Apparently Bar Minion contacted another collaborator to request a very specialized custom database - without Road Runner's knowledge or permission. Road Runner found out when the collaborator contacted her, and she told the collaborator not to trust Bar Minion unless he wants his database to end up in China before he can finish patenting/copyrighting. Road Runner told me she was planning to have a nice little meeting with Bar Minion to introduce her to the concept of insubordination, but I do not know if this happened. Road Runner is starting to believe that Bar Minion may be trying to scoop her (submit an unauthorized paper, without permission, reporting results of the study before Road Runner can). All I can say is, welcome to the party.

Now, why did I get the phone call? Because I have the custom database that Bar Minion is trying to get her grubby little fingers on, and I have been instructed not to give it to her under any circumstances. Postdoc and I are the only authorized users.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

[windsor]

Not sure if this is the best place for an update on "As the Bunsen Burns," but it's a continuation of the previously mentioned saga.

I got a phone call this morning from a VERY unhappy Road Runner. Apparently Bar Minion contacted another collaborator to request a very specialized custom database - without Road Runner's knowledge or permission. Road Runner found out when the collaborator contacted her, and she told the collaborator not to trust Bar Minion unless he wants his database to end up in China before he can finish patenting/copyrighting. Road Runner told me she was planning to have a nice little meeting with Bar Minion to introduce her to the concept of insubordination, but I do not know if this happened. Road Runner is starting to believe that Bar Minion may be trying to scoop her (submit an unauthorized paper, without permission, reporting results of the study before Road Runner can). All I can say is, welcome to the party.

Now, why did I get the phone call? Because I have the custom database that Bar Minion is trying to get her grubby little fingers on, and I have been instructed not to give it to her under any circumstances. Postdoc and I are the only authorized users.

Paging KARMA...please report to the lab...Paging KARMA please report to the lab immediately

[CathyCA]

Not sure if this is the best place for an update on "As the Bunsen Burns," but it's a continuation of the previously mentioned saga.

I got a phone call this morning from a VERY unhappy Road Runner. Apparently Bar Minion contacted another collaborator to request a very specialized custom database - without Road Runner's knowledge or permission. Road Runner found out when the collaborator contacted her, and she told the collaborator not to trust Bar Minion unless he wants his database to end up in China before he can finish patenting/copyrighting. Road Runner told me she was planning to have a nice little meeting with Bar Minion to introduce her to the concept of insubordination, but I do not know if this happened. Road Runner is starting to believe that Bar Minion may be trying to scoop her (submit an unauthorized paper, without permission, reporting results of the study before Road Runner can). All I can say is, welcome to the party.

Now, why did I get the phone call? Because I have the custom database that Bar Minion is trying to get her grubby little fingers on, and I have been instructed not to give it to her under any circumstances. Postdoc and I are the only authorized users.

As my former father-in-law used to say (he probably STILL says it), "Living well is the best revenge."

[ArkieDukie]

Some strange things are happening and have been for a while. I'm not sure where to start this story, so I'll start before I came into the picture in order to put things into context. Road Runner and MacGyver met several years ago, well before I met either of them. Road Runner was overseas at the time; MacGyver in the States at a major lab. MacGyver got Road Runner a job in the lab where he worked (his story, and I have no reason to doubt this) b/c she wanted to come back to the US. He apparently helped her get the job that she had before coming to UTMB as well (again, his story, no reason to doubt it). RR is here because MacGyver started the wheels rolling. The hire was not exactly a package deal, but RR was hired at MacGyver's recommendation. The MD Anderson collaboration that I've talked about so often came about because MacGyver introduced Road Runner to some friends that he was already working with. The main guy at MD Anderson is a college friend of MacGyver's, and both are part of the project.

Now for more current events. I've noticed over the past several months that the relationship between Road Runner and MacGyver was chilly, but I haven't been sure what was going on. The only thing I do know is that MacGyver is likely not going to get tenure. Road Runner's odds are much better. So, what was Road Runner's response? She completely cut MacGyver out of the project that he helped to establish. Not only that, but she has also cut the long-time MD Anderson collaborator who is a friend of MacGyver's. My guess was that she had done this out of a sense of self-preservation because of the tenure thing, but I found out today that this was not the case. In the course of another conversation (below), MacGyver told me that RR was mad at him over "something personal that he had no control over" and was taking it out on him professionally. I didn't ask and he didn't volunteer, but I have my guesses.

Now for the context of our conversation: remember the ill-fated instrumentation deal with the instrument company? Well, Road Runner is working on reviving it WITHOUT MacGyver but including me. When she first mentioned it to me last week, I asked about MacGyver. RR said that he would be included "initially." Flash forward to today. MacGyver said he had a question but I didn't have to answer; he then asked me if I was part of RR's instrumentation grant. I said yes, and he said that she hasn't said anything to him at all. I then said that I was treading very carefully because I'm no longer sure how much I can trust RR. His response was that this is where he's at as well. We had a slightly more extensive conversation in which he filled me in a bit on the current situation (see above).

My take on this is that Road Runner may be even more of a user than I initially thought. I've always had my suspicions, but the bus-toss that she has given to MacGyver has solidified what my gut has been telling me for a while. MacG is no longer useful, so he has been ousted. I think that she's keeping me involved only as long as she feels that I'm useful, and then I will get the exact same treatment as MacGyver. I told MacG that I've been wary for her of a while, and I also told him that RR has no clue how badly she screwed up with me with the whole Bar Minion incident (the one where she had Bar Minion present "her" data analysis). I'm still working with her, but my guard is WAY up and I trust her far less than she realizes. And now the instrumentation grant has reared its ugly head again, but this time she will be getting sole credit. Funny how that works, right?

Would love to hear everyone's take on all of this. My personal conclusion is that I need to tread even more carefully in dealing with Road Runner than I originally thought. Does this sound right (RR's true colors are coming out, and all past actions make more sense), or am I over-reacting?

[DukieInKansas]

My $0.02 - which may not even be worth that much. Tread carefully and document everything. Keep your ethics high - eventually, karma will win.

[windsor]

I am curious macgyver won't get tenure. could it be RR is jumping off a sinking ship? There is saving yourself and there is throwing someone under a bus to advance yourself.

Either way...I wouldn't trust RR furtherr than I could throw her. I am not sure how much I would trust MacGyver either - you don't want to be the instrument of his revenge so to speak.

I wouldn't share much with either of them Listen. Nod. Appear to agree. Don't 'pile on'.

I would we very careful of getting invovled in the instrumnet project (again). Last time you were rightly concerned about going behind your boss' back and that was before RR started to show true colors.

[Lavabe]

You, my friend, are skating on thin water... or is it treading on thin ice?

Stay away from the grant. It sounds toxic.

[ArkieDukie]

MacGyver tenure: many reasons. Combination of bad luck and maybe some poor management skills. Can't help when the expensive instrument you purchase for your research is down for a year, nor does it help when the institution decides to keep a portion of the startup package they promised you. Nor does it help when you have to be out for 6 weeks for one surgery and 4 weeks for another. He had a terrible time finding someone to work for him, which means he also had no one in the lab working on research. In summary, it's a big stinking mess.

I'm sure Road Runner would justify cutting MacGyver due to his lack of productivity on the project. That's somewhat fair. I think the execution of the decision was pretty awful, and I see no justification for cutting out MacGyver's friend from MD Anderson. With that being said, I do not know of everything that has transpired. Regardless, if you're cutting someone out of a longstanding collaboration (since her time in Europe, probably over 10 years), you tell them face-to-face. You do not have them find out second-hand. At least, that's the way I was raised.

Back when I was reading "Give and Take" I classified MacGyver as a giver. For those of you who have read the book, you know that you can be a giver to a fault. That's where MacGyver falls. He's so willing to go out of his way to help others that his own work suffers. Road Runner is either a taker or a matcher. If she's a matcher, she no longer sees any benefit in working with MacGyver so she has cut him out. Recall that matchers expect reciprocation. If she's a taker, she believes she's gotten everything out of him that she can. I don't know enough about the dynamics of her relationship with the person at MD Anderson to make a call.

The grant is, indeed, somewhat toxic. MacGyver is very unhappy that he's being left out this time around. Recall that the instrument company approached the 3 of us as a team. Apparently Road Runner (unfairly) blames MacGyver for the whole thing falling through the first time. Again, this is one of those instances where it might have been nice to tell him of her plans rather than having him find out through other channels. RR SAYS she's going to bring The Boss into the loop this time. She's talked to pretty much everyone else before talking to him, though, and I'm not entirely sure she's being completely straight with me. We're supposed to have a sit-down sometime next week, and I'm going to try to get a better handle of what she's up to. If she does not agree to schedule a meeting with The Boss sooner rather than later, I'm out. Period.

Had lunch with MacGyver today. He tried to get information from me about what Road Runner is up to regarding the instrumentation grant. I was very neutral and changed the subject. I trust him more than I trust Road Runner, but I will not be used for information.

I haven't mentioned this, but Road Runner got a grant to upgrade her bioinformatics capabilities. She is using it to upgrade my $$ software so she can have a copy in her lab. I suspect the days of my usefulness to her are somewhat numbered. With that being said, the two grants that are currently being submitted have me as essential personnel and Bar Minion as support staff (basically sample prep and running the instrument). So, we shall see.