crazietalk.net

windsor wrote:I should add that your position at this point is defensible. Since P-PI led you to believe that changes were made that addressed some of your concerns you felt they deserved the benefit of the doubt. Now that you have a copy in your hot little hand and that is NOT the case you can not allow it to be submitted in that state. Your concerns have been ignored by P-PI and your boss, so they have left you no choice but to bring the matter to Academic Integrity. That would be my story, and I would stick to it.

Make sure every scrap of documentation as well as any 'atta girls', performance reviews, and other HR type documents are copied to a non work location.

Retaliation against a whistle blower is taken pretty seriously...don't be afraid to rattle the litigation sabre if you need to.

That will be my approach, windsor, and it's the truth. I even have several e-mail messages to my boss where I express my disappointment that he allowed PPI and The Minion to include data over my objections. Don't have much other than that.

It will be interesting to see if they try to blame me or if they throw The Minion under the bus. Another interesting question: will PPI throw both my boss and The Minion under the bus and say that my boss should've told him (PPI) that The Minion was falsifying data? After all, my boss is the expert, and he always sided with PPI and The Minion when I expressed concerns. Remember I've mentioned in the past that I've gotten in trouble before for "making The Minion look bad in front of her boss" when I call BS on her. The political fireworks could be interesting. IMO PPI knows and understands exactly what's going on - in fact, I'd go so far as to say he encouraged it. However, he's not above pleading ignorance to save his own hide.

windsor wrote:one more thing....(I feel like Columbo) ...you can't defend yourself if you aren't there. I'm sure most of us have experience the workplace phenomena called "Blame the Guy that Left"....if there is ANY WAY they can lie or imply that you part and party to this your reputation could end up in the proverbial crapper.

Given what you have said about this fine (snort) group of human beings I have no doubt they will play as dirty as necessary to save their own asses. I don't want them to be able to do that at the expense of yours.

Square your shoulders, set your jaw and tell the MoFos to bring it. We don't lose, and we don't take prisoners.

Thanks for the encouragement! I'm going to need to channel my inner windsor for this one.

Are you going to tell the AI folks about this thread? They may find it an interesting read...

Sounds like windsor has better advice then I gave you. What ever you do.....

Be sure and share any appointment times so we can be sending out the CTN vibes at the correct time.

Well, I'm sending vibes starting now just to be on the safe side!

shereec wrote:Well, I'm sending vibes starting now just to be on the safe side!

Would that be "safe mode"?

Another twist in the plot: I received an e-mail from Pushy PI today regarding a second manuscript that's being sent out; my boss and The Minion were copied. He repeated the invitation to return my name to the other manuscript "as we discussed in our meeting." As an added bonus, "we removed (the questionable data) as you suggested and changed the sequence coverage accordingly." He also made a point of saying that they had changed another issue that I was concerned with.

Here's the thing: neither of those statements is true, based upon an initial reading of the manuscript. Either PPI thinks I'm gullible or he was snowed by The Minion, who was supposed to make the changes and didn't. He just gave me additional ammo for Academic Integrity and he doesn't even know it!

I think my best path here is an oh-so-sweet-and-innocent response to point out that, in fact, neither of those points was addressed in the version of the manuscript that I received, citing specific places in the manuscript where there's erroneous information. I may point out a few other inconsistencies as well. If nothing else, it gives me additional documentation for Academic Integrity. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts here, windsor and Lavabe - others as well, of course.

ArkieDukie wrote:Another twist in the plot: I received an e-mail from Pushy PI today regarding a second manuscript that's being sent out; my boss and The Minion were copied. He repeated the invitation to return my name to the other manuscript "as we discussed in our meeting." As an added bonus, "we removed (the questionable data) as you suggested and changed the sequence coverage accordingly." He also made a point of saying that they had changed another issue that I was concerned with.

Here's the thing: neither of those statements is true, based upon an initial reading of the manuscript. Either PPI thinks I'm gullible or he was snowed by The Minion, who was supposed to make the changes and didn't. He just gave me additional ammo for Academic Integrity and he doesn't even know it!

I think my best path here is an oh-so-sweet-and-innocent response to point out that, in fact, neither of those points was addressed in the version of the manuscript that I received, citing specific places in the manuscript where there's erroneous information. I may point out a few other inconsistencies as well. If nothing else, it gives me additional documentation for Academic Integrity. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts here, windsor and Lavabe - others as well, of course.

I agree with your planned response. I'd be sure to state where and how HE, PPI, made changes. At that point, you will then know for sure who did what. I really think Minion has not done the changes that PPI requested. Another possibility is that he just asked your boss, without checking the stuff himself. Clearly, your boss has disregarded you in several ways.

Honestly, I now feel as though there's a slim chance they CAN make the changes on the manuscript.

Can you refresh my memory? After all this time (and FAScinating time it has been), I've forgotten the motive for the refusal to make the changes. Laziness? Ego? To finagle the numbers to fit the results they want? All of the above? I know you explained this at some point, but I've forgotten. It must be a senior moment.
Love, Ima

PS the OP and I discussed it and both of us agree you should ask "WWWD?" and do it.

Ima Facultiwyfe wrote:
PS the OP and I discussed it and both of us agree you should ask "WWWD?" and do it.

What would Windsor do? Right?

OZZIE4DUKE wrote:

Ima Facultiwyfe wrote:
PS the OP and I discussed it and both of us agree you should ask "WWWD?" and do it.

What would Windsor do? Right?

"WWWD?" should be its own thread. ;)

Lavabe wrote:

OZZIE4DUKE wrote:

Ima Facultiwyfe wrote:
PS the OP and I discussed it and both of us agree you should ask "WWWD?" and do it.

What would Windsor do? Right?

"WWWD?" should be its own thread. ;)

That'll be her next career -
"Dear Windsor"

ArkieDukie wrote: I think my best path here is an oh-so-sweet-and-innocent response to point out that, in fact, neither of those points was addressed in the version of the manuscript that I received, citing specific places in the manuscript where there's erroneous information. I may point out a few other inconsistencies as well. If nothing else, it gives me additional documentation for Academic Integrity. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts here, windsor and Lavabe - others as well, of course.

Ding Ding Ding...Winner. That's the correct response IMHO...sweet like honey 'golly gosh gee the copy you gave me must be a previous version because <list fuck ups here>' Be a specific as you can...and tell him you'd be happy to look over the corrected one. No harm in throwing in a few other issues with the manuscript if you want. Just keep the passive voice going. The e-mail needs to be crystal clear that these are issues you have brought up previously so that in can serve as an academic integrity coffin nail.

As to the add you name back (which we know you won't be doing) - if they fix everything you mention PPI might push it thinking there is no longer a reason for you to stay off the P.O.S. ...the measured response if that happens is along the lines of 'I appreciate you wanting to included my name, but honestly there have been so many issues with the data in this research that unless I repeated everything myself and validated all of it I wouldn't be comfortable with my name on it'.

I look forward to the next chapter of As the Manuscript Turns...


WWWD? That's hysterical - just remember what they say about advice...easy to give...hard to follow I don't always take my OWN advice.

Ima Facultiwyfe wrote:Can you refresh my memory? After all this time (and FAScinating time it has been), I've forgotten the motive for the refusal to make the changes. Laziness? Ego? To finagle the numbers to fit the results they want? All of the above? I know you explained this at some point, but I've forgotten. It must be a senior moment.
Love, Ima

PS the OP and I discussed it and both of us agree you should ask "WWWD?" and do it.

I think it's been The Minion's ego at play here. She's first author on the paper and did the initial data manipulation - uh, analysis. She repeatedly included information that I told her was incorrect. Many of the problems with the manuscript are due to the fact that she falsified data in the first place and has lied repeatedly in order to cover it up, and my boss seems to play, "let's not embarrass The Minion in front of Pushy PI." I was permanently removed from the meetings, remember, after I caught another of her million mistakes and called her on it via an email message that was copied to her boss.

Pushy PI and my boss apparently haven't figured out that she's a manipulative liar. For windsor's benefit, The Minion is a master at the sickly sweet manner. Combine that with always needing to be in charge and needing to have the last word, and you can just imagine how much fun she is to deal with.

I love WWWD. That should be one of our official CTN buttons!

ArkieDukie wrote:For windsor's benefit, The Minion is a master at the sickly sweet manner. Combine that with always needing to be in charge and needing to have the last word, and you can just imagine how much fun she is to deal with.
:

Try mastering the 'supressed laugh'... you look like you were going to laugh but are trying to hide it...bonus points for a quick look down or turn away. It is a wonderful way to say "You are a F-ing idiot without saying You are a F-ing idiot"

Another favorite...the grab the phone as they are leaving and pretend you are sharing some mockery of the Minion...casting glances her way while engaging in muffled laughter. It will make her crazy.

windsor wrote:As to the add you name back (which we know you won't be doing) - if they fix everything you mention PPI might push it thinking there is no longer a reason for you to stay off the P.O.S. ...the measured response if that happens is along the lines of 'I appreciate you wanting to included my name, but honestly there have been so many issues with the data in this research that unless I repeated everything myself and validated all of it I wouldn't be comfortable with my name on it'.

You know, windsor, I like your suggested response so much that I might have to use it verbatim. In fact, I might even use it in response to his note, after the list of problems. He was very careful to NOT to say in his note that they would make changes in the galley proofs if the manuscript was accepted for publication.

windsor wrote:

ArkieDukie wrote:For windsor's benefit, The Minion is a master at the sickly sweet manner. Combine that with always needing to be in charge and needing to have the last word, and you can just imagine how much fun she is to deal with.
:

Try mastering the 'supressed laugh'... you look like you were going to laugh but are trying to hide it...bonus points for a quick look down or turn away. It is a wonderful way to say "You are a F-ing idiot without saying You are a F-ing idiot"

Another favorite...the grab the phone as they are leaving and pretend you are sharing some mockery of the Minion...casting glances her way while engaging in muffled laughter. It will make her crazy.

That's what AD does here! Although it doesn't make The Minion crazy because she doesn't see it...

OZZIE4DUKE wrote:That's what AD does here! Although it doesn't make The Minion crazy because she doesn't see it...

It is no fun if she doesn't see it.

Way back when my cube was next to that of an annoying sniping busybody who liked to set people up to fail by never giving them all the information they needed. Her downfall was that she couldn't keep her trap shut....I would sit at my desk with my headphones 'on' while tapping away to the music...she would then feel free to talk on the phone because I couldn't hear her...except I only had the earbuds tucked behind my ears (long hair helps) and there was no music. I could hear her just fine.

windsor wrote:

OZZIE4DUKE wrote:That's what AD does here! Although it doesn't make The Minion crazy because she doesn't see it...

It is no fun if she doesn't see it.

Way back when my cube was next to that of an annoying sniping busybody who liked to set people up to fail by never giving them all the information they needed. Her downfall was that she couldn't keep her trap shut....I would sit at my desk with my headphones 'on' while tapping away to the music...she would then feel free to talk on the phone because I couldn't hear her...except I only had the earbuds tucked behind my ears (long hair helps) and there was no music. I could hear her just fine.

My, what a devious little bitch you were! I love you Windsor!