Biden won, it's over --- The Election Thread

[Phredd3]

Agree. What I've seen is a convention of fear.
And pandering. The pardon and the citizenship ceremonies last night were bizarre.

Actually, I thought last night was at least more of the positive than the night before, keeping in mind that I went to bed before Eric had his go. The naturalization, in particular, was pandering, yes, but also positive. Same with the prison reform pardon. You can question the propriety of such events happening during a political event, of course, but they were at least positive.

It is important when I see these things that I keep firmly in mind my own point of view. Many - likely most - of the viewers who are watching or following the Republican Convention do not share that point of view. It's my view that for anyone even remotely on the fence, last night was far more effective than the night before.

[CameronBornAndBred]

With Laura bearing down on the Gulf Coast as a Cat 4 storm, it is going to be interesting to see if there is a tonal shift tonight and tomorrow. When Trump speaks tomorrow night, there are likely going to be a few thousand Americans without homes, many times more with measurable damage, and even more without power for the coming days.

[dudog]

I thought the RNC had promised a positive convention. What I heard the entire time was that the Democratic Party is out to destroy the country and the only thing that can possibly save it is another four years of Trump. Did I miss the positivity?

Agree. What I've seen is a convention of fear.
And pandering. The pardon and the citizenship ceremonies last night were bizarre.

It's come out that while the people in the "citizenship ceremony" signed media release forms, the were NOT told they were going to be used for the RNC. Such classy people.

[dudog]

I thought the RNC had promised a positive convention. What I heard the entire time was that the Democratic Party is out to destroy the country and the only thing that can possibly save it is another four years of Trump. Did I miss the positivity?

Agree. What I've seen is a convention of fear.
And pandering. The pardon and the citizenship ceremonies last night were bizarre.

The ceremony with all those people from shit hole countries? What a joke. I wonder what his fan base think when they see that? Making American Great?

They will think what they are told to think.

[CameronBornAndBred]

It's come out that while the people in the "citizenship ceremony" signed media release forms, the were NOT told they were going to be used for the RNC. Such classy people.

Jebus...
One merciful last night to go.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Harris spoke today and laid out the strategy that Trump is "scared and vindictive".
That's not a bad plan, especially when focused on his "handling" of the pandemic.

[ArkieDukie]

Elect a reality TV star to be POTUS, and you end up with a convention that’s a reality TV extravaganza. I was going to watch, but I quit after the first night. I just couldn’t stomach it, and I didn’t want the viewership numbers to look good.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Elect a reality TV star to be POTUS, and you end up with a convention that’s a reality TV extravaganza. I was going to watch, but I quit after the first night. I just couldn’t stomach it, and I didn’t want the viewership numbers to look good.

I tried hard the first two nights, but didn't even tune in last night. I will likely watch at least some of his speech tonight, but I'm not optimistic that I will be able to stomach all of it.
I've always enjoyed conventions, from both parties, and have watched most of the important speakers from both. He just makes it so hard.

[Phredd3]

I'm an early riser and probably won't stay up and awake long enough for Trump's speech. I've tuned in every night, but I can only half pay attention lest I start to throw objects in the general direction of my TV. As it is my wife, who largely agrees with my point of view, gets tired of my verbal interjections.

[Furniture]

Agree. What I've seen is a convention of fear.
And pandering. The pardon and the citizenship ceremonies last night were bizarre.

Actually, I thought last night was at least more of the positive than the night before, keeping in mind that I went to bed before Eric had his go. The naturalization, in particular, was pandering, yes, but also positive. Same with the prison reform pardon. You can question the propriety of such events happening during a political event, of course, but they were at least positive.

It is important when I see these things that I keep firmly in mind my own point of view. Many - likely most - of the viewers who are watching or following the Republican Convention do not share that point of view. It's my view that for anyone even remotely on the fence, last night was far more effective than the night before.

As someone who has been through a naturalization ceremony I can tell you that it’s incredibly positive and very emotional. One of the most wonderful things that ever happened to me and my family. The elephant in the room here is that these sort of events are something that Trump does not want to happen. It should have no place in his election propaganda. Frankly it was disgusting.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I slept through Trump's speech last night, never even tuned in, so I am relying on media reports today for reactions to it.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I am on vacation, sharing a room with my two elementary-school aged kids. If we were hope I would likely have watched some of the convention out of morbid curiosity. Since I don't not want to give my kids nightmares that will scar them for life, I have not watched any of it. From what I have read, the lies and misinformation they have been spewing has been unprecedented. Yet tens of millions of our fellow Americans are bamboozled into believing his crap, or expend ridiculous amounts of mental energy coming up with excuses to justify it.

I don't mean to sound melodramatic, but I really no longer want to be part of the same country as these people. We no longer share any values, beliefs, or norms of behavior. The vast majority of my world opposes Trump but I struggle to maintain civil relationships with those who don't. My few Trump-supporting friends are upper middle class/wealthy people who are well-educated (several Duke alums). They either create excuses for it or just find it amusing, which I find to be sick. Everything is seen as us vs. them and a zero-sum game - there is no desire to work for the collective good. Improving the lives of black people does not come at the expense of white people or police officers. Immigrants are not here to take your jobs.

Aargh...

[CameronBornAndBred]

Everything is seen as us vs. them and a zero-sum game - there is no desire to work for the collective good.

One of my right wing nutjob Facebook friends (I have right wing friends that I respect, it's the RWNJs that I can't take) posted, and I quote
"Republican vs Democrat is literally good vs. evil."

That's what she has bought into, and she is far from alone. And that goes for folks on both sides of the aisle. That "aisle" is becoming a canyon.

PS, same said RWNJ friend is constantly railing against "socialism", yet her mom that she lives with is on social security and medicare and is the only one working, while she herself has no job because she "is too sick to work", so she's on medicaid.
It's maddening what they see versus their own reality.

[dudog]

Everything is seen as us vs. them and a zero-sum game - there is no desire to work for the collective good.

One of my right wing nutjob Facebook friends (I have right wing friends that I respect, it's the RWNJs that I can't take) posted, and I quote
"Republican vs Democrat is literally good vs. evil."

That's what she has bought into, and she is far from alone. And that goes for folks on both sides of the aisle. That "aisle" is becoming a canyon.

PS, same said RWNJ friend is constantly railing against "socialism", yet her mom that she lives with is on social security and medicare and is the only one working, while she herself has no job because she "is too sick to work", so she's on medicaid.
It's maddening what they see versus their own reality.

Have you pointed that out to her, or are you trying to keep the friendship? Seems like she's an either/or person.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Everything is seen as us vs. them and a zero-sum game - there is no desire to work for the collective good.

One of my right wing nutjob Facebook friends (I have right wing friends that I respect, it's the RWNJs that I can't take) posted, and I quote
"Republican vs Democrat is literally good vs. evil."

That's what she has bought into, and she is far from alone. And that goes for folks on both sides of the aisle. That "aisle" is becoming a canyon.

PS, same said RWNJ friend is constantly railing against "socialism", yet her mom that she lives with is on social security and medicare and is the only one working, while she herself has no job because she "is too sick to work", so she's on medicaid.
It's maddening what they see versus their own reality.

Have you pointed that out to her, or are you trying to keep the friendship? Seems like she's an either/or person.

She's also a neighbor. If she weren't, she woulda been kicked to the curb awhile ago. I've given up on debating her.

[dudog]

One of my right wing nutjob Facebook friends (I have right wing friends that I respect, it's the RWNJs that I can't take) posted, and I quote
"Republican vs Democrat is literally good vs. evil."

That's what she has bought into, and she is far from alone. And that goes for folks on both sides of the aisle. That "aisle" is becoming a canyon.

PS, same said RWNJ friend is constantly railing against "socialism", yet her mom that she lives with is on social security and medicare and is the only one working, while she herself has no job because she "is too sick to work", so she's on medicaid.
It's maddening what they see versus their own reality.

Have you pointed that out to her, or are you trying to keep the friendship? Seems like she's an either/or person.

She's also a neighbor. If she weren't, she woulda been kicked to the curb awhile ago. I've given up on debating her.

My next door neighbor of 30 years is a Trumper, but he's a pretty good neighbor, so we don't discuss politics.

[Phredd3]

I personally find it increasingly sad - in a profound way, not a Trumpian way - that we can no longer rationally discuss politics in this country. It may well lead to the end of our democracy. If you see the other side as "evil" or "beyond salvation" or "not worth the bother", you cannot possibly have civil discourse, and without discourse, you cannot have compromise. Without compromise, some variant of authoritarianism will become the only possible way to govern.

I fear for the future of our country, and our inability to have civil political discourse, more than any other single thing, is the reason why.

I was really hoping that Wheat and some others would come here from OY, just to try to get some real discussion going. Instead, mostly this forum seems to have mostly become another echo chamber. It's one I agree with, I freely admit, but it is not really advancing the ball in the way I'd hoped it might. Maybe that's simply no longer possible.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I was really hoping that Wheat and some others would come here from OY, just to try to get some real discussion going. Instead, mostly this forum seems to have mostly become another echo chamber. It's one I agree with, I freely admit, but it is not really advancing the ball in the way I'd hoped it might. Maybe that's simply no longer possible.

Anyone is free to voice their opinions here, and moreso, express them freely. Obviously most of us slant one way, but we do it respectfully. Like you, I welcome other's thoughts.

[Phredd3]

Bizarrely, I just now ran across this video. It's 14 minutes long and says everything I meant above. The video (a TEDx talk) discusses a political issue that is outside the Presidential electoral process, but the presentation speaks clearly to some of the problems embedded in the current race. When you have time, I recommend a listen. Don't be put off by the title. It's worth your time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WMuzhQXJoY

[dudog]

Someone should post the sheep cartoon from today's Far Side OY. Without comment, both sides will think you're talking about the other. I'd do it but I've been banned.

https://www.thefarside.com/