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Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 12:31 pm**

Good letter. It will be interesting to hear how the principal responds.

Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 12:50 pm**

Excellent letter. Please keep us posted - I'm interested to see how the principal responds.

Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 1:00 pm**

I have tremendous difficulty dealing with these sorts of issues. On the one hand, I'm a grammar freak. On the other hand, I'm an instructor, and I understand the issues involved with undermining a teacher's authority.

I like CathyCA's letter for its ability to deal with these issues. I was also very glad to see her use of "flabbergast."

I disagree a little with CathyCA. I want to say that Grammar Girl a few months ago did a podcast in which she reported on a very interesting analysis of Strunk & White, and why the book should NOT be held as the Bible. Even with Grammar Girl's report, I agree with CathyCA on most of the grammar issues she detailed in her response.

But at what point does the grammar-checking only fuel anti-Duke or anti-intellectual sentiment? At what point do we respond, given some of the issues that CathyCA mentioned (e.g., retaliation)?

The other day, LegacyLady returned home complaining about her English teacher who in class pronounced the Louvre as "LOO-vray."

Now Legacy Lady has attended Ecole du Samedi (Saturday French school), is very good with her French pronunciation, and has visited the Louvre (in Paris, France... we haven't checked if there's one in Paris, Kentucky ;) ). But the teacher insisted that a student in Legacy Lady's class was pronouncing it incorrectly. The teacher INSISTED that the pronunciation was LOO-vray. Legacy Lady held back.

I guess my question is: at what point do we complain officially when these sorts of issues develop?

Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 1:06 pm**

Lavabe wrote:...has visited the Louvre (in Paris, France... we haven't checked if there's one in Paris, Kentucky ;) )...

What about Versailles (pronounced "Ver-SALES"), Kentucky? Been there yet?

Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 1:11 pm**

Lavabe wrote:I have tremendous difficulty dealing with these sorts of issues. On the one hand, I'm a grammar freak. On the other hand, I'm an instructor, and I understand the issues involved with undermining a teacher's authority.

I like CathyCA's letter for its ability to deal with these issues. I was also very glad to see her use of "flabbergast."

I disagree a little with CathyCA. I want to say that Grammar Girl a few months ago did a podcast in which she reported on a very interesting analysis of Strunk & White, and why the book should NOT be held as the Bible. Even with Grammar Girl's report, I agree with CathyCA on most of the grammar issues she detailed in her response.

But at what point does the grammar-checking only fuel anti-Duke or anti-intellectual sentiment? At what point do we respond, given some of the issues that CathyCA mentioned (e.g., retaliation)?

The other day, LegacyLady returned home complaining about her English teacher who in class pronounced the Louvre as "LOO-vray." Now Legacy Lady has attended Ecole du Samedi (Saturday French school), is very good with her French pronunciation, and has visited the Louvre (in Paris, France... we haven't checked if there's one in Paris, Kentucky ;) ). But the teacher insisted that a student in Legacy Lady's class was pronouncing it incorrectly. The teacher INSISTED that the pronunciation was LOO-vray. Legacy Lady held back.

I guess my question is: at what point do we complain officially when these sorts of issues develop?

I understand not wanting to undermine a teacher, which CathyCA was very careful to address, but these grammatical errors were made by the language arts teacher. It would be disappointing in a letter from any teacher but is especially egregious coming from a language arts teacher. I commend Legacy Lady for holding her tongue as I know that wasn't easy. The mispronunciation would bother me more if it came from the French teacher. FYI - Missouri has the Versailles issue also.

Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 1:13 pm**

wilson wrote:
Lavabe wrote:...has visited the Louvre (in Paris, France... we haven't checked if there's one in Paris, Kentucky ;) )...
What about Versailles (pronounced "Ver-SALES"), Kentucky? Been there yet?

Yes, and I've also been to Cadiz (pronounced KAY-deez), Kentucky and Cairo (pronounced KAY-ro), Illinois.

Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 1:31 pm**

Lavabe wrote:
wilson wrote:
Lavabe wrote:...has visited the Louvre (in Paris, France... we haven't checked if there's one in Paris, Kentucky ;) )...
What about Versailles (pronounced "Ver-SALES"), Kentucky? Been there yet?
Yes, and I've also been to Cadiz (pronounced KAY-deez), Kentucky and Cairo (pronounced KAY-ro), Illinois.

We have a Cairo, GA like that, too. If you've ever heard of Karo syrup, that's where it comes from. Cairo High School calls its sports teams the Syrupmakers.

Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 1:33 pm**

[quote="Lavabe"]The other day, LegacyLady returned home complaining about her English teacher who in class pronounced the Louvre as "LOO-vray."

Now Legacy Lady has attended Ecole du Samedi (Saturday French school), is very good with her French pronunciation, and has visited the Louvre (in Paris, France... we haven't checked if there's one in Paris, Kentucky ;) ). But the teacher insisted that a student in Legacy Lady's class was pronouncing it incorrectly. The teacher INSISTED that the pronunciation was LOO-vray. [quote]

Did she know how to get the to LOO-vray from the Ark of TRY-umph or vare-size?

Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 1:34 pm**

Oy vey! This thread is giving me a headache.

Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 1:43 pm**

Lavabe wrote: Yes, and I've also been to Cadiz (pronounced KAY-deez), Kentucky and Cairo (pronounced KAY-ro), Illinois.

That's KAY-ro ill-in-NOISE, right?

Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 1:45 pm**

colchar wrote:After my post earlier in this thread I attempted to revise my post once my roommate's Dad had read the letter. In doing so I screwed up and created another post in which I quoted myself. Could one of the mods do me a favour and clean that up for me? Thanks.

Done...I think.

Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 1:57 pm**

Cathy, I can't wait to hear his response to your letter, if he responds at all.

Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 2:29 pm**

Lavabe wrote: I guess my question is: at what point do we complain officially when these sorts of issues develop?

Had there only been one or two errors in this letter, I would have gritted my teeth and ignored them. However, as I wrestled with whether to bring this letter to the principal's attention, I decided that NOW is better than LATER. I could imagine the principal's asking me, "Why didn't you let me know this from the beginning so that I could do something about it."

I almost offered to proofread the teacher's letters for her, but I decided that proofreading my son's teacher's documents isn't my job.

I wonder how many parents even noticed the problems contained in the letter.

BTW, Lavabe, I don't like Strunk & White, but it was the best thing I could come up with to use as an example for my letter to the principal.

Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 2:35 pm**

OZZIE4DUKE wrote:Cathy, I can't wait to hear his response to your letter, if he responds at all.

He is a she, and I'm also interested to know whether she'll respond. FWIW, I did not put this letter on letterhead stationery. I thought it better to use only my home address as the heading. I didn't want to play the lawyer card.

I also didn't put my phone number on the letter. If she responds by telephone, she's going to be forced to get up from her desk and go over to the file cabinet to look up my number.

I'm hoping that she'll find the teacher's letter so shocking that she calls her in for a conference with the head of the English department.

Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 3:33 pm**

Lavabe wrote:
wilson wrote:
Lavabe wrote:...has visited the Louvre (in Paris, France... we haven't checked if there's one in Paris, Kentucky ;) )...
What about Versailles (pronounced "Ver-SALES"), Kentucky? Been there yet?
Yes, and I've also been to Cadiz (pronounced KAY-deez), Kentucky and Cairo (pronounced KAY-ro), Illinois.

I am from Cairo, Illinois. It is not pronounced KAY-ro. Care-oh is more like it. Across the river is Cadiz and you got that one right. Across the other river is New MADrid, Missouri. Afew miles north of Care-oh is Vienna. Yep, you guessed it ... Vye-annah! We got a million of 'em.

Love, Ima

Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 5:41 pm**

CathyCA wrote:
OZZIE4DUKE wrote:Cathy, I can't wait to hear his response to your letter, if he responds at all.
He is a she, and I'm also interested to know whether she'll respond. FWIW, I did not put this letter on letterhead stationery. I thought it better to use only my home address as the heading. I didn't want to play the lawyer card. I also didn't put my phone number on the letter. If she responds by telephone, she's going to be forced to get up from her desk and go over to the file cabinet to look up my number.

I'm hoping that she'll find the teacher's letter so shocking that she calls her in for a conference with the head of the English department.

CathyCA, very nice letter; well done and well played. And you had to respond; if you didn't, I would have!!

Sister Camilla Mary would have said, "Be still, my beating heart, and fan me with a brick!!"

We had a similar situation last year. The 4th grade reading teacher sent home practice spelling lists with words that were spelled INCORRECTLY!! ("indpendance" is the first one that comes to mind). We were ready to look the other way the first time and blame it on a typo, and then it happened again. Mrs. Turk did some networking with other moms, and heard of other incidents with Teacher "NotSister" involving grammar as well as spelling errors. Mrs. Turk decided to find an excuse to stop by the principal's office and have an "oh, by the way" type of chat. The principal feigned surprise, and nothing came of it.

Well, maybe that's not true. This year, they jiggered the teaching assignments. Teacher NotSister was moved down from 4th to 3rd grade, where she will be "instructing" the youngest Turk. <sigh> We are not the type to challenge teaching assignments, and it is only 3rd grade after all. She's a very nice lady, and the kids love her, but how can you not even spell-check your spelling lists before sending them out?

Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 5:54 pm**

wilson wrote:What about Versailles (pronounced "Ver-SALES"), Kentucky? Been there yet?

Nope, but I have been to North Versailles, Pennsylvania, also pronounced "Ver-SALES". We also have a DuBois, pronounced "do-BOYS" and Duquesne, pronounced "do-KANE".

Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 6:07 pm**

Excellent letter my dear!!!

Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 8:11 pm**

Lavabe wrote:
wilson wrote:
Lavabe wrote:...has visited the Louvre (in Paris, France... we haven't checked if there's one in Paris, Kentucky ;) )...
What about Versailles (pronounced "Ver-SALES"), Kentucky? Been there yet?
Yes, and I've also been to Cadiz (pronounced KAY-deez), Kentucky and Cairo (pronounced KAY-ro), Illinois.

I wish people in Irvine California would learn how to pronounce it properly 'Irv-in'. It is named after a town in Scotland and 'in' is the correct pronunciation.

Posted: **September 1st, 2009, 8:16 pm**

CathyCA wrote:So, here's what I sent to the principal:

Dear Ms. "Principal:"

I am enclosing a copy of the letter that Ms. NotTennant sent home to parents last week. I have not discussed this matter with Ms. NotTennant, and I have hesitated to approach you with my concerns because this is an extremely sensitive personnel matter. I also hesitate to approach you with my concerns for fear of retaliation against my child, with whom I have not discussed this matter. However, I am flabbergasted that the person who published the attached grammatical mess is certified to teach English language arts to my son and to his classmates, and so I come to you confidentially to share my concerns.

I comprehend the gist of the message this letter is conveying. The problem is that the person who wrote this letter is supposed to be teaching proper English grammar and construction to my child. By way of example, I can point out a few of the many regrettable errors contained in Ms. NotTennant’s letter:

· In paragraph 2, she used the possessive “student’s” instead of the plural “students.”

· The second sentence in paragraph 2 is awkward. A better way to write this sentence would be: “Exposure to different genres of literature will enhance students’ knowledge of literature and will encourage them to become more well-rounded readers.” In the teacher’s original sentence, she used both the singular and the plural form of “student.” The teacher should choose whether she is referring to one student or to a group of students, and should stick with either the singular or the plural in a paragraph, and certainly in a sentence.

· In paragraph 3, she used the reflexive pronoun “myself” incorrectly. Additionally, the teacher wrote that sentence in passive voice.

· In paragraph 4, the teacher began the sentence by using third person singular (he/she) and then finished the sentence incorrectly by using the third person plural pronoun (they) to refer to its antecedent (he/she).

I learned many of these rules in my own seventh grade English language arts class thirty-five years ago. I do not expect that Ms. NotTennant would use White & Strunk’s Elements of Style to teach English to her seventh grade students, but I do expect that she would model the correct usage of the grammar she is supposed to be teaching when she sends letters to the parents of her students. Quite frankly, this letter is representative of your school, and it does not reflect positively on your faculty and staff.

I intend to work closely with my son at home on his English language arts homework. I will be closely monitoring the assignments and assisting him throughout the year. Please understand that I am trying to strike a very delicate balance here by providing him with instruction at home, while attempting to uphold the authority and respect that his teacher deserves, ex officio, by virtue of her position. I do not intend to undermine Ms. NotTennant, but I do intend to ensure that my child learns seventh grade English language arts, whether or not his teacher has a passing grasp of the curriculum.

Is there a way that you can help Ms. NotTennant? Can you proofread her communications before she sends them? Is there a remedial class or workshop that she can attend? Is there a mentoring program available to provide her with an experienced, knowledgeable mentoring teacher? Is there a solution to this problem?

I thank you in advance for your kind assistance, cooperation, and sensitivity in responding to my concerns.

Very truly yours,

CathyCA

Well done.

But you should italicize ex officio as foreign terms are supposed to be italicized. Also, although it is acceptable to underline a title, that is falling out of favour (due to word processors making it easy to italicize) and titles should now be italicized rather than underlined.

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