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Lavabe wrote:Forte vs. forte

A strength of mine is a forte (pronounced FORT); the latter term (pronounced FOR-tay) refers to a musical term for loudness.

Bugs me EVERY time I hear it mispronounced.

Guilty. I hang my head in shame. I will never do it again.

Lavabe wrote:Forte vs. forte

A strength of mine is a forte (pronounced FORT); the latter term (pronounced FOR-tay) refers to a musical term for loudness.

Bugs me EVERY time I hear it mispronounced.

According to the OED the for-tay pronunciation does mean a strength.

Who said that words adopted into English from another language must be pronounced as in the original language?

Like all those weenies that insist that the plural of focus is foci. Because, duh, Latin! But then they proceed to pronounce it in a very un-Latin "foe-sai" .... Cicero and Caesar would be rolling in their graves if they heard that.

Foe-kee
Ki-keh-roe
Kai-zar

Lavabe wrote:Forte vs. forte

A strength of mine is a forte (pronounced FORT); the latter term (pronounced FOR-tay) refers to a musical term for loudness.

Bugs me EVERY time I hear it mispronounced.

Guilty. I hang my head in shame. I will never do it again.

I have an friend who from time to time uses "WALA!" in e-mails. It took me a little while to figure out she meant "VOILA"....I tried to tell her that and she argued with me that it "WALA" was really the right word. Yeah.
Ok sweatpea....

Lavabe wrote:Forte vs. forte

A strength of mine is a forte (pronounced FORT); the latter term (pronounced FOR-tay) refers to a musical term for loudness.

Bugs me EVERY time I hear it mispronounced.

And here I thought Forte was a guard at carolina that went to the pros too early.

OZZIE4DUKE wrote:

Lavabe wrote:Forte vs. forte

A strength of mine is a forte (pronounced FORT); the latter term (pronounced FOR-tay) refers to a musical term for loudness.

Bugs me EVERY time I hear it mispronounced.

And here I thought Forte was a guard at carolina that went to the pros too early.

Doesn't it belong on the "S" list then?

DukeUsul wrote:

colchar wrote:"I could care less."

That doesn't mean what you think it means. Grab a clue and use the correct fucking term!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why? You know what we mean.

AAARRRGGGHH!!!!! I'm soooooo tired of hearing that one. It drives me crazy!
Love, Ima

When somebody tells me he is nauseous I tend to agree with him, bless his heart. Look up the difference in nauseous and nauseated.
Love, Ima

I think I got this site from throaty. It has become one of my favorites.

http://motivatedgrammar.wordpress.com/2 ... of-nausea/

colchar wrote:

Lavabe wrote:Forte vs. forte

A strength of mine is a forte (pronounced FORT); the latter term (pronounced FOR-tay) refers to a musical term for loudness.

Bugs me EVERY time I hear it mispronounced.

According to the OED the for-tay pronunciation does mean a strength.

Webster's New World disagrees with OED.

In OED, do they give it as an alternate acceptable pronunciation, or has it replaced completely the initial FORT pronunciation?

The derivation is Middle English "fort", and Old French "fort," then (if you use the English word "fort" as in fortification) derived from Latin FORTIS, Old Latin "forctus," then an IndoEuropean base of "bheregh-" and possibly Sanskrit "brmhati").

I don't have OED's description of how it gets to be allowed as for-tay.

The music term forte (pronounced for-tay) is derived from Italian first, and THEN the Latin "fortis." Strictly speaking, it means strong volume, LOUD. It isn't someone's strength. Right?

Clarification please? If I am wrong, I too hang my head in shame.

windsor wrote:I have an friend who from time to time uses "WALA!" in e-mails. It took me a little while to figure out she meant "VOILA"....I tried to tell her that and she argued with me that it "WALA" was really the right word. Yeah.
Ok sweatpea....

Legacy Lady reported one time that her English teacher talked about the "LOO-vray," as in the museum in Paris.

Lavabe wrote:

windsor wrote:I have an friend who from time to time uses "WALA!" in e-mails. It took me a little while to figure out she meant "VOILA"....I tried to tell her that and she argued with me that it "WALA" was really the right word. Yeah.
Ok sweatpea....

Legacy Lady reported one time that her English teacher talked about the "LOO-vray," as in the museum in Paris.

I still shake my head at that one.

It's not a cliche, but today in court, one of the probation officers kept using the term "indebteNness." I just about came unglued. Especially since the judge, the D.A. and all of the other probation officers kept pronouncing the term correctly: "indebteDness."

Lavabe wrote: Webster's New World disagrees with OED.

In OED, do they give it as an alternate acceptable pronunciation, or has it replaced completely the initial FORT pronunciation?

The derivation is Middle English "fort", and Old French "fort," then (if you use the English word "fort" as in fortification) derived from Latin FORTIS, Old Latin "forctus," then an IndoEuropean base of "bheregh-" and possibly Sanskrit "brmhati").

I don't have OED's description of how it gets to be allowed as for-tay.

The music term forte (pronounced for-tay) is derived from Italian first, and THEN the Latin "fortis." Strictly speaking, it means strong volume, LOUD. It isn't someone's strength. Right?

Clarification please? If I am wrong, I too hang my head in shame.

Who listens to Websters? The OED is the gold standard!

Here is the definition from my copy of the OED:

Forte - 1) person's strong point or specialty [feminine of French FORT]; 2) loudly, loud playing or passage [Italian: related to FORT].

So it seems that they are both pronounced for-tay but they come from different sources (French and Italian). At no point does my copy of the OED offer the pronunciation that you mentioned in your original post.

Here is the citation for my copy of the OED:

The Oxford Dictionary of Current English. Oxford, Toronto, & New York: Oxford University Press, 1996.

colchar wrote:
Who listens to Websters? The OED is the gold standard!

Here is the definition from my copy of the OED:

Forte - 1) person's strong point or specialty [feminine of French FORT]; 2) loudly, loud playing or passage [Italian: related to FORT].

So it seems that they are both pronounced for-tay but they come from different sources (French and Italian). At no point does my copy of the OED offer the pronunciation that you mentioned in your original post.

Here is the citation for my copy of the OED:

The Oxford Dictionary of Current English. Oxford, Toronto, & New York: Oxford University Press, 1996.

The French feminine of fort (forte) would be pronounced FORT. If you pronounced it for-tay in Paris, you would be received not unlike a Habs fan in Maple Leaf Gardens.

Oxford doesn't know French. ;)

Merriam Webster wins this battle... in the US. Quinion also points to a generational change in the word's pronunciation. It seems as though the Brits/Canadians now have gone in one direction, pronouncing a French word as if it were Italian:
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-for1.htm

Then again, y'all pronounce it JAG-u-ar (three syllables), right?
;)

windsor wrote:I have an friend who from time to time uses "WALA!" in e-mails. It took me a little while to figure out she meant "VOILA"....I tried to tell her that and she argued with me that it "WALA" was really the right word. Yeah.
Ok sweatpea....

Lavabe wrote:
Merriam Webster wins this battle... in the US.

Since when has anyone in America known anything about proper English?

Quinion also points to a generational change in the word's pronunciation. It seems as though the Brits/Canadians now have gone in one direction, pronouncing a French word as if it were Italian:
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-for1.htm

Well the language is English so I'll listen to the Brits on this one.

Then again, y'all pronounce it JAG-u-ar (three syllables), right?
;)

Not that I've ever heard.

DukeUsul wrote:I think I got this site from throaty. It has become one of my favorites.

http://motivatedgrammar.wordpress.com/2 ... of-nausea/

Okay. I give up.
Nobody in his right mind would ever tangle with Throaty on a subject like this!
Love, Ima
PS ..... unless he's , that is.

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