crazietalk.net

OZZIE4DUKE wrote:

captmojo wrote:

OZZIE4DUKE wrote:Damn damn damn damn damn. I went out to our propane tank this afternoon to check the gauge and it was down to 15%. They usually fill it before 20%, so I called them. The guy showed up after 8 p.m. (they give really good customer service, this is NOT what I'm saying damn about - these guys I appreciate.) I asked him what the price was? In late November it was $2.09 a gallon, which was up from ~$1.59 in early September. $2.45/gallon. 207 gallons plus tax. 5 fucking hundred and 48 dollars for a month's+ worth of propane. If it wasn't for the $5 - 6,000 to change back to a heat pump, I'd do it in a heart beat, because that would only cost me about $150/month, even when it's cold like it has been.

How much would it cost you to have the furnace converted to natural gas? Might be worth it.

I don't have natural gas on my street, which is why I went with propane years ago when I went with my gas pack instead of getting another heat pump. Back then, propane ranged from $.59 to $.89 during the season, and was about the same as natural gas on an energy cost basis, and cheaper than electricity. Not for the last few years, of course.

About 6 or 7 years ago, when I already had propane, the town sent out a questionnaire asking if we would connect to natural gas if it were be run on the street. I said no, as did several of my neighbors who also already had propane, so we didn't get it. Other parts of town did. Nothing we can do about it now.

Also, while my gas pack could be converted to NG, my "outside" gas water heater can't be converted - the literature said that when I got it. Of course, if I had both, it wouldn't be a problem.

I'm lucky I selected the right gas. I feel for you.

Not to go all PPB here, but nat gas is being found more and more here in the US. It can provide us with jobs extracting it, greater energy independence, a cleaner environment(okay, this one is always being debated but relative to coal most certainly) and because of its abundance here stable supply and thus pricing. However, our administration is not in favor of it preferring to tout wind and solar. Both are necessary, but neither one is available in enough abundance to meet our needs. Heck we aren't even building nuclear which others are doing right now. What am I missing? (Nothing really, those in Washington are the ones missing something.)

YmoBeThere wrote:Not to go all PPB here, but nat gas is being found more and more here in the US. It can provide us with jobs extracting it, greater energy independence, a cleaner environment(okay, this one is always being debated but relative to coal most certainly) and because of its abundance here stable supply and thus pricing. However, our administration is not in favor of it preferring to tout wind and solar. Both are necessary, but neither one is available in enough abundance to meet our needs. Heck we aren't even building nuclear which others are doing right now. What am I missing? (Nothing really, those in Washington are the ones missing something.)

What you're missing is the power of the special interests. We should be all out building nuke plants and drilling for nat gas, developing the distribution system that T. Boone Pickens' commercials were touting 2 years ago for converting commercial (18 wheeler) trucks to natural gas fuel, and cars could be done the same way. Both my propane company's delivery trucks, and my Schwan's (food) delivery trucks run on propane.

The Bakken shale oil deposits that have been "discovered" in the last few years, and are now technologically and economically recoverable, are the largest in the world, dwarfing oil reserves in the Middle East. We are seriously missing the boat on energy right now. Too bad the Republican based "drill, drill, drill" of a couple of years ago became such an anathema to Democrats' philosophy. Both parties are seriously putting us in peril at this point.

OZZIE4DUKE wrote:

YmoBeThere wrote:Not to go all PPB here, but nat gas is being found more and more here in the US. It can provide us with jobs extracting it, greater energy independence, a cleaner environment(okay, this one is always being debated but relative to coal most certainly) and because of its abundance here stable supply and thus pricing. However, our administration is not in favor of it preferring to tout wind and solar. Both are necessary, but neither one is available in enough abundance to meet our needs. Heck we aren't even building nuclear which others are doing right now. What am I missing? (Nothing really, those in Washington are the ones missing something.)

What you're missing is the power of the special interests. We should be all out building nuke plants and drilling for nat gas, developing the distribution system that T. Boone Pickens' commercials were touting 2 years ago for converting commercial (18 wheeler) trucks to natural gas fuel, and cars could be done the same way. Both my propane company's delivery trucks, and my Schwan's (food) delivery trucks run on propane.

The Bakken shale oil deposits that have been "discovered" in the last few years, and are now technologically and economically recoverable, are the largest in the world, dwarfing oil reserves in the Middle East. We are seriously missing the boat on energy right now. Too bad the Republican based "drill, drill, drill" of a couple of years ago became such an anathema to Democrats' philosophy. Both parties are seriously putting us in peril at this point.

Not to sound too religious or zealous, but....AMEN.

OZZIE4DUKE wrote:The Bakken shale oil deposits that have been "discovered" in the last few years, and are now technologically and economically recoverable, are the largest in the world, dwarfing oil reserves in the Middle East.

Following up on this point, back in the 70's study reports started coming out that the world's oil supply was peaking, or would peak, in just a few years as demand rose. There was even a name for that point, but I forget what it is. Doom sayers said we'd be out of oil in "50 years". Then it got worse in the 80's and early 90's. And lo and behold, technologies developed by those dastardly major oil companies, found ways to find and extract more oil (and accompanying natural gas). We now have domestic access to >100 of years of fuel supplies for electric power plants and transportation if the politics, and environmentalists, would allow. And nat gas is much cleaner burning than coal, whether global warming is real or not. Progress Energy is closing three of its older coal fired plants (Lee Plant in Goldsboro, Cape Fear Plant in Moncure and Sutton Plant in Wilmington) and is building nat gas plants on the same properties over the next 5 to 10 years, and more are probably in the works. All of those coal plant sites (there are 3 or 4 "units" on each site) were major customers for me back in the 80's and 90's for measurement, control and recording instrumentation.

OZZIE4DUKE wrote:

OZZIE4DUKE wrote:The Bakken shale oil deposits that have been "discovered" in the last few years, and are now technologically and economically recoverable, are the largest in the world, dwarfing oil reserves in the Middle East.

Following up on this point, back in the 70's study reports started coming out that the world's oil supply was peaking, or would peak, in just a few years as demand rose. There was even a name for that point, but I forget what it is. Doom sayers said we'd be out of oil in "50 years". Then it got worse in the 80's and early 90's. And lo and behold, technologies developed by those dastardly major oil companies, found ways to find and extract more oil (and accompanying natural gas). We now have domestic access to >100 of years of fuel supplies for electric power plants and transportation if the politics, and environmentalists, would allow. And nat gas is much cleaner burning than coal, whether global warming is real or not. Progress Energy is closing three of its older coal fired plants (Lee Plant in Goldsboro, Cape Fear Plant in Moncure and Sutton Plant in Wilmington) and is building nat gas plants on the same properties over the next 5 to 10 years, and more are probably in the works. All of those coal plant sites (there are 3 or 4 "units" on each site) were major customers for me back in the 80's and 90's for measurement, control and recording instrumentation.

There has to be a happy medium.
Both the companies and the government have lied to us for nearly 40 years over supplies.
Who can you trust?

I think the problem is that, at the time with technologies available, the supplies are low. But newer technologies are able to extract more and more difficult to extract oil the supply of accessible oil increases. But only if it's economically feasible to do so. I.e., as it gets more expensive to pay for the tech to extract oil from shale or oil sands, it makes more sense to invest in the technology.

A proper energy policy is a diverse energy policy. Without energy independence, the US is in the hands of our enemies. Investing in technology to recover fossils from US deposits, solar, wind, nuclear, geothermal, etc. should all be pursued independently to wean us off our dependency on foreign oil.

But none of the above will happen as long as foreign oil is cheaper. What incentive does anyone have to use more expensive energy?

What's missing from the equation is all the money we spend to stabilize the middle east in order to get our cheap oil. When we factor in all the costs of our interventions over there, we're actually spending much much more for each barrel of cheap oil we get form beneath their sand.

Here's my modest proposal. Let's take all the money we're spending to prop up middle eastern religiously-fanatic despots and recover that cost by taxing the shit out of foreign oil. Yes this causes serious pain. Start small and gradually increase it until we recover the full cost of our work over there.

Until the TRUE COST of that foreign oil is accurately reflected in the prices we pay, we'll never get off of it. Until domestic sources and alternative sources are cheaper, it just doesn't make sense for anyone to invest in them.

Wow. I just went all PPB. I must be angry. The Eagles and Duke game really have me in a bad mood.

4F at the moment, I hope it doesn't go below 0F

YmoBeThere wrote:4F at the moment, I hope it doesn't go below 0F

I just hope you see 9F sometime tomorrow. ;)

DukeUsul wrote:I think the problem is that, at the time with technologies available, the supplies are low. But newer technologies are able to extract more and more difficult to extract oil the supply of accessible oil increases. But only if it's economically feasible to do so. I.e., as it gets more expensive to pay for the tech to extract oil from shale or oil sands, it makes more sense to invest in the technology.

A proper energy policy is a diverse energy policy. Without energy independence, the US is in the hands of our enemies. Investing in technology to recover fossils from US deposits, solar, wind, nuclear, geothermal, etc. should all be pursued independently to wean us off our dependency on foreign oil.

But none of the above will happen as long as foreign oil is cheaper. What incentive does anyone have to use more expensive energy?

What's missing from the equation is all the money we spend to stabilize the middle east in order to get our cheap oil. When we factor in all the costs of our interventions over there, we're actually spending much much more for each barrel of cheap oil we get form beneath their sand.

Here's my modest proposal. Let's take all the money we're spending to prop up middle eastern religiously-fanatic despots and recover that cost by taxing the shit out of foreign oil. Yes this causes serious pain. Start small and gradually increase it until we recover the full cost of our work over there.

Until the TRUE COST of that foreign oil is accurately reflected in the prices we pay, we'll never get off of it. Until domestic sources and alternative sources are cheaper, it just doesn't make sense for anyone to invest in them.

Wow. I just went all PPB. I must be angry. The Eagles and Duke game really have me in a bad mood.

good thoughts.

I guess I don't wanna turn the Iggles at this time either...

It's snowing (light stuff) for the fourth day in a row, after the initial 2.5". So I think we've had 3.5-4 inches of the stuff. But the COLD is lasting much longer. I think we may crack freezing later this week.

Morning temp: 9F.

devildeac wrote:

YmoBeThere wrote:4F at the moment, I hope it doesn't go below 0F

I just hope you see 9F sometime tomorrow. ;)

9F right now...

Ggggoodddd mmmmmorrrrrrningggggggg. Ittt'sssssssss 1F hhhheeerrrrrrrrree.

Georgia LOVES the snow

Lavabe wrote:Georgia LOVES the snow

She does not. She is thinking "let me in, my glands are freezing out here."

By the way, Geogia is AWESOME looking. She looks like a raccoon crossed with a collie.

Lavabe wrote:It's snowing (light stuff) for the fourth day in a row, after the initial 2.5". So I think we've had 3.5-4 inches of the stuff. But the COLD is lasting much longer. I think we may crack freezing later this week.

Morning temp: 9F.

Always a nice temp.

CameronBornAndBred wrote:

Lavabe wrote:Georgia LOVES the snow

She does not. She is thinking "let me in, my glands are freezing out here."

Nah, she was just looking through some gag binoculars!

CameronBornAndBred wrote:

Lavabe wrote:Georgia LOVES the snow

She does not. She is thinking "let me in, my glands are freezing out here."

I'd bet that those glands don't smell anywhere near as bad as they do inside the house.

Lavabe wrote:Georgia LOVES the snow

Georgia is beautiful. She's welcome to come play with Harley anytime.