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YEAH! Very glad to hear this.

I think the very best outcome is for you to find a wonderful opportunity (in NC) with the good publication to your name and have Boss and Pushy PI actually realize they are now stuck with Minion when they could have had YOU! It's like Cinderalla's evil stepmother and stepsisters having to work as scullery maids while she becomes Princess. I'm sending vibes for your next job opportunity!

I just caught up on this thread. Things seem to be going your way. I also am hoping you head to NC. Job vibes still coming your way.

I spent the entire day today editing the manuscript. While doing so, I discovered an error in another part of the data analysis that The Minion did. (Raise your hand if you're surprised.) Let's say you have a big list of numbers, both positive and negative, and you need to determine the mean and standard deviation of said list. Easy enough, right? Well, apparently not. She determined the mean and standard deviation for the list of numbers using the absolute value for each. In other words, she made all negative numbers positive. I figured this out when I was making a scatter plot for the values she used and discovered that they all clustered above zero. She doesn't understand why this makes a difference. She has a PhD in neurobiology.

I'm going to have to write a simple explanation for her that goes something like this: let's say you have two numbers (-2, 2). What's the mean of these numbers? (0) What's the standard deviation? (2.8) Now, let's use the absolute values for these numbers (2,2). What's the mean of these numbers? (2) What's the standard deviation? (0) If you want to accept everything within 2 x std dev from the mean, which range would you rather use? Yes, she used the equivalent of the latter. My boss understood that it was completely wrong, but I'm not sure he thinks it's as big a deal as I do. Maybe he will once I copy him on my response.

ArkieDukie wrote:She determined the mean and standard deviation for the list of numbers using the absolute value for each. In other words, she made all negative numbers positive. I figured this out when I was making a scatter plot for the values she used and discovered that they all clustered above zero. She doesn't understand why this makes a difference. She has a PhD in neurobiology.

Seriously, what the eff is wrong with these people?

wilson wrote:

ArkieDukie wrote:She determined the mean and standard deviation for the list of numbers using the absolute value for each. In other words, she made all negative numbers positive. I figured this out when I was making a scatter plot for the values she used and discovered that they all clustered above zero. She doesn't understand why this makes a difference. She has a PhD in neurobiology.

Seriously, what the eff is wrong with these people?

That was pretty much my response, wilson. She's an effing moron. I think that my boss may have figured that out, at long last.

Now I have a new question: did she knowingly falsify the earlier data, or was she just too stupid to realize that she was falsifying data? I'm starting to think it may be the latter.

As Ron White says, "You can't fix stupid."

GAH, she is stupid.

Why is your boss so protective of her?

CathyCA wrote:GAH, she is stupid.

Why is your boss so protective of her?

CathyCA, I believe the answer to that question can be found in the campus power structure. Her boss is a MAJOR power player. With that being said, I think that my boss is finally beginning to see that The Minion is not as smart as he thought.

ArkieDukie wrote:

CathyCA wrote:GAH, she is stupid.

Why is your boss so protective of her?

CathyCA, I believe the answer to that question can be found in the campus power structure. Her boss is a MAJOR power player. With that being said, I think that my boss is finally beginning to see that The Minion is not as smart as he thought.

Maybe the answer is simpler than that. Maybe he is sleeping with her. I am not saying that in jest.

OZZIE4DUKE wrote:

ArkieDukie wrote:

CathyCA wrote:GAH, she is stupid.

Why is your boss so protective of her?

CathyCA, I believe the answer to that question can be found in the campus power structure. Her boss is a MAJOR power player. With that being said, I think that my boss is finally beginning to see that The Minion is not as smart as he thought.

Maybe the answer is simpler than that. Maybe he is sleeping with her. I am not saying that in jest.

Knowing all players involved here, I can assure you that the answer is no.

ArkieDukie wrote:I spent the entire day today editing the manuscript. While doing so, I discovered an error in another part of the data analysis that The Minion did. (Raise your hand if you're surprised.) Let's say you have a big list of numbers, both positive and negative, and you need to determine the mean and standard deviation of said list. Easy enough, right? Well, apparently not. She determined the mean and standard deviation for the list of numbers using the absolute value for each. In other words, she made all negative numbers positive. I figured this out when I was making a scatter plot for the values she used and discovered that they all clustered above zero. She doesn't understand why this makes a difference. She has a PhD in neurobiology.

I'm going to have to write a simple explanation for her that goes something like this: let's say you have two numbers (-2, 2). What's the mean of these numbers? (0) What's the standard deviation? (2.8) Now, let's use the absolute values for these numbers (2,2). What's the mean of these numbers? (2) What's the standard deviation? (0) If you want to accept everything within 2 x std dev from the mean, which range would you rather use? Yes, she used the equivalent of the latter. My boss understood that it was completely wrong, but I'm not sure he thinks it's as big a deal as I do. Maybe he will once I copy him on my response.

Geez. I hope these people aren't procreating.

lawgrad91 wrote:Geez. I hope these people aren't procreating.

Lawgrad, I regret to inform you that The Minion has little Minionettes.

ArkieDukie wrote:

lawgrad91 wrote:Geez. I hope these people aren't procreating.

Lawgrad, I regret to inform you that The Minion has little Minionettes.

I was afraid you'd tell me that.

i should totally be asleep, but I'm not.

1) AD, being newly out of academia/research and just off the ph with a fmr colleague who's really steamed at my fmr PI, I am sympathetic to your plight.

2) The reason I am posting is to say your choice of "The Minion" has been perhaps my favorite part of this thread (other than the seeming turn of the tide in your direction) and that has only been topped by the addition of Minionettes.

Woohoo! May the force be with you, both regarding this paper and your job hunt.

It's difficult to keep a scoresheet on all of this, but are we now talking about 4 or 5 points that need to be brought before an Institutional Review Board? Has ANY of this been submitted for publication?

Lavabe wrote:It's difficult to keep a scoresheet on all of this, but are we now talking about 4 or 5 points that need to be brought before an Institutional Review Board? Has ANY of this been submitted for publication?

Lavabe, fortunately it's all been fixed. The manuscript will be submitted next week. Hopefully.

ArkieDukie wrote:

Lavabe wrote:It's difficult to keep a scoresheet on all of this, but are we now talking about 4 or 5 points that need to be brought before an Institutional Review Board? Has ANY of this been submitted for publication?

Lavabe, fortunately it's all been fixed. The manuscript will be submitted next week. Hopefully.

With or without proper spelling of authors' names?

I sent The Minion (copying both of our bosses) a note on the problem with using absolute values to calculate mean and standard deviation. She sent back a REALLY snotty response (copying both of our bosses), telling me that she learned about all of this 15 years ago in med school. She then said that I told her to do it that way. I don't remember the whole scenario exactly; maybe I did tell her to use an absolute value, but I bet I assumed she'd take the absolute value AFTER she did all the appropriate calculations.

I think she's clearly making it up as she goes at this point. Hopefully other key players realize this as well. Especially telling is the fact that, even if she DID calculate the mean deviation (the one she allegedly learned about 15 years ago in med school), she did it incorrectly. I had never heard the tem before, so I googled it. If my reading of the definition is correct, you're supposed to take the absolute value at the very end, not before you start the calculation.

Oh, the other major tell: she threw in the "I learned this in med school" point. In my experience, many people who have obtained MDs in certain parts of the world REALLY look down on PhDs and treat them as intellectual inferiors. I didn't realize before that The Minion received her MD before coming to the US. This is not meant to be a blanket statement for all people from her native country, but most of the people who have been condescending about my being PhD rather than MD are from the same country as she. I think this might explain her behavior with regard to data interpretation. For the last 3 years, when she doesn't agree with the answer I give her, she goes over my head. Her boss is MD; my boss is MD/PhD.

Lavabe wrote:

ArkieDukie wrote:Lavabe, fortunately it's all been fixed. The manuscript will be submitted next week. Hopefully.

With or without proper spelling of authors' names?

I corrected by my name and my boss's name on Friday, when I was given a draft of the manuscript.

ArkieDukie wrote:Oh, the other major tell: she threw in the "I learned this in med school" point. In my experience, many people who have obtained MDs in certain parts of the world REALLY look down on PhDs and treat them as intellectual inferiors. I didn't realize before that The Minion received her MD before coming to the US. This is not meant to be a blanket statement for all people from her native country, but most of the people who have been condescending about my being PhD rather than MD are from the same country as she. I think this might explain her behavior with regard to data interpretation. For the last 3 years, when she doesn't agree with the answer I give her, she goes over my head. Her boss is MD; my boss is MD/PhD.

That DOES explain a lot.