Biden won, it's over --- The Election Thread

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I personally find it increasingly sad - in a profound way, not a Trumpian way - that we can no longer rationally discuss politics in this country. It may well lead to the end of our democracy. If you see the other side as "evil" or "beyond salvation" or "not worth the bother", you cannot possibly have civil discourse, and without discourse, you cannot have compromise. Without compromise, some variant of authoritarianism will become the only possible way to govern.

I fear for the future of our country, and our inability to have civil political discourse, more than any other single thing, is the reason why.

I was really hoping that Wheat and some others would come here from OY, just to try to get some real discussion going. Instead, mostly this forum seems to have mostly become another echo chamber. It's one I agree with, I freely admit, but it is not really advancing the ball in the way I'd hoped it might. Maybe that's simply no longer possible.

I agree with you in principle but Wheat is a horrible example. Unfortunately, I think the few pro-Trump folks who post OY are low-IQ and completely tone deaf, with Wheat being very much like that. He knows the rules yet immediately blows them up - he did it again today - his posts did not stay up long because they were so ridiculous.

I really wish I could find a pro-Trump person who I could have an intelligent discussion with. But so far I have failed to find one. Once someone starts defending his childish behavior, I tune them out. I have at least a little bit of respect for those who support him who admit that they despise his behavior, but are willing to tolerate it to achieve their policy goals. Just own it. But my Trump-loving acquaintances say that he is just kidding, that his behavior is restoring our position in the world, that I am being too sensitive, etc.

I compare it to the dad of one of my son's friends who is a Tar Heel alum and avid fan. He is one of the few Tar Heels I know who admits that the program has done sketchy things, he will admit when they lose fair and square to us, and he respects K. He is very knowledgeable about basketball so because he isn't constantly making excuses for the Heels, I really enjoy discussing basketball with him.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I agree with you in principle but Wheat is a horrible example. Unfortunately, I think the few pro-Trump folks who post OY are low-IQ and completely tone deaf

I think most of the folks that I get in debates with are mindbogglingly numb to the reality around them, and thus many are tone deaf, but while there are a few folks out there that truly lack intelligence, the mass majority of them are quite smart. They are successful in their businesses and for the most part live well. Knowing that they are smart makes it all even more maddening. I'm often left asking "how can you possibly believe the words coming out of your mouth?"

[ArkieDukie]

Agree about constructive political debates. Even I can admit that some of Trump’s policy ideas are okay. Execution is horrible, though. I envision a finger pushing a button and pushing that one plus the surrounding 10 buttons - something like how a toddler would do it. The cultists seriously believe that he is brilliant and the best leader the country has seen. There are others that are disturbed by him, but he’s managing to win them over with the “law and order” talk. Then, there’s the other stuff we’ve already discussed (abortion, child sex trafficking, etc).

Unfortunately, most Trump supporters have doubled down on the crazy. Rational, level-headed posts/comments draw belligerent responses. Or, comments are deleted altogether. I’ve had that happen to me when I rebut crazy anti-vaxxer or crazy COVID-19 conspiracy theories. I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s not worth my time and sanity to try. Lately, it’s been memes that are tone deaf at best and outright racist at worst. Those I block.

A friend and I had a long discussion last night about the coming election and what the outcome will be. Trump wins, and we have more of the crazy. He loses, and I genuinely fear what the right wing militia will do. We saw one example of what they’re capable of doing in Kenosha. I’m seriously considering Y2K type preparedness for November.

[ArkieDukie]

I agree with you in principle but Wheat is a horrible example. Unfortunately, I think the few pro-Trump folks who post OY are low-IQ and completely tone deaf

I think most of the folks that I get in debates with are mindbogglingly numb to the reality around them, and thus many are tone deaf, but while there are a few folks out there that truly lack intelligence, the mass majority of them are quite smart. They are successful in their businesses and for the most part live well. Knowing that they are smart makes it all even more maddening. I'm often left asking "how can you possibly believe the words coming out of your mouth?"

I’ve thought long and hard about that question, because of posts from people back home. Most opinions are based on life experience, and most of the tone deaf posts I see are from people who rarely leave rural NW AR. Their realities are based on what they see on a daily basis and what they’ve been taught. They see all issues as black or white with no shades of gray. Right is right, wrong is wrong, and there is no in between. In fact, they cannot comprehend a world unlike their own, and many are unwilling to even do so (which is also true of many on the left). Many are some of the best people you will ever meet, and they are incapable of seeing evil in others. Thus, someone like Don the Con can totally manipulate them into believing that he alone is telling the truth. “I love the uneducated,” is probably one of very few honest statements to ever come out of his mouth.

The educated, though, are a whole other ball of wax. For some, I just wonder if they, like Trump, are completely incapable of admitting when they are wrong. Or, they’re all about the money and don’t care about anything else. I just continue to be amazed at the otherwise intelligent people who believe he is doing a great job.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

The truest words ever spoken by Trump are "This election will decide the future of the Country".

On to the pressing issue of today, yesterday, two months ago and 400 years ago: Black Lives Matter and systemic racism. I am white, grew up privileged and sheltered from the harshest parts of life. I have never considered myself racist - yes, I had a black friend or two as a kid and a few as an adult, and have always considered others as honest, trustworthy and an equal until he or she proved otherwise through their actions, and I'm not talking just about black and white. I never considered myself homophobic, but until I had friends and relatives "come out", I realized I probably was a little bit and didn't want to be, because I liked these people and wanted to continue the normal relationship I had with them, and if two men or two women wanted to get married, that was fine with me. OK, I've digressed. Let me get back on topic.

When John Carlos and Tommy Smith raised their fists on the medal stand in 1968 at the Olympics, I thought "how dumb". When Colin Kaepernick took his knee during the National Anthem, I thought "how dumb" and disrespectful. And lots of other stuff happened, people of color kept getting killed by police and other white people, and I thought "too bad, that shouldn't have happened" But it didn't sink in.

And then George Floyd died, on video, with a white cop kneeling on his neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds with other cops just standing by watching. And the light went on in my head. I understood why Kaepernick kneeled. I understood that true systemic change had to occur - there were, and are, far too many people who are racist, either covert (in the closet) or overt. Too many police are racist, too many judges, too many politicians, too many fiends and neighbors. And then Jacob Blake was shot in the back 7 times as he was getting into his car by another white cop, and it was caught on video. How can this cop be so stupid after all that has happened in the last 3 months? Because he's so racist. That's why.

Peaceful protest is good. Violent riots are terrible, and I believe that most of the violence and looting is intentionally started, provoked by racist anarchist groups who went to the protests to riot, gain publicity and to promote their causes.

If you don't think change needs to happen, that police actions (beating, shooting and killing black people) are justified, then you, my friend, are the problem. Plainly said, you are a racist. And there are far too many of you. Everywhere, including on this board and even in our tailgate. Please change your mind and your attitude. I'd like to keep you as my friend.

People responded to the video tweets by Duke Mens Basketball of Nolan Smith's, Coach K's and the other players saying they could no longer root for Duke Men's Basketball. Good and good riddance and don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

As Mike Buckmire's sign so poignantly asked: "Am I next?" I hope no one is next.

Donald Trump is a racist, and he proves it every day in his actions, his words and his policies. He is a despicable excuse for a human being and he has no business being our president - you might as well elect David Dukes or George Wallace (were he alive).

[CameronBornAndBred]

The truest words ever spoken by Trump are "This election will decide the future of the Country".

On to the pressing issue of today, yesterday, two months ago and 400 years ago: Black Lives Matter and systemic racism. I am white, grew up privileged and sheltered from the harshest parts of life. I have never considered myself racist - yes, I had a black friend or two as a kid and a few as an adult, and have always considered others as honest, trustworthy and an equal until he or she proved otherwise through their actions, and I'm not talking just about black and white. I never considered myself homophobic, but until I had friends and relatives "come out", I realized I probably was a little bit and didn't want to be, because I liked these people and wanted to continue the normal relationship I had with them, and if two men or two women wanted to get married, that was fine with me. OK, I've digressed. Let me get back on topic.

When John Carlos and Tommy Smith raised their fists on the medal stand in 1968 at the Olympics, I thought "how dumb". When Colin Kaepernick took his knee during the National Anthem, I thought "how dumb" and disrespectful. And lots of other stuff happened, people of color kept getting killed by police and other white people, and I thought "too bad, that shouldn't have happened" But it didn't sink in.

And then George Floyd died, on video, with a white cop kneeling on his neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds with other cops just standing by watching. And the light went on in my head. I understood why Kaepernick kneeled. I understood that true systemic change had to occur - there were, and are, far too many people who are racist, either covert (in the closet) or overt. Too many police are racist, too many judges, too many politicians, too many fiends and neighbors. And then Jacob Blake was shot in the back 7 times as he was getting into his car by another white cop, and it was caught on video. How can this cop be so stupid after all that has happened in the last 3 months? Because he's so racist. That's why.

Peaceful protest is good. Violent riots are terrible, and I believe that most of the violence and looting is intentionally started, provoked by racist anarchist groups who went to the protests to riot, gain publicity and to promote their causes.

If you don't think change needs to happen, that police actions (beating, shooting and killing black people) are justified, then you, my friend, are the problem. Plainly said, you are a racist. And there are far too many of you. Everywhere, including on this board and even in our tailgate. Please change your mind and your attitude. I'd like to keep you as my friend.

People responded to the video tweets by Duke Mens Basketball of Nolan Smith's, Coach K's and the other players saying they could no longer root for Duke Men's Basketball. Good and good riddance and don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

As Mike Buckmire's sign so poignantly asked: "Am I next?" I hope no one is next.

Donald Trump is a racist, and he proves it every day in his actions, his words and his policies. He is a despicable excuse for a human being and he has no business being our president - you might as well elect David Dukes or George Wallace (were he alive).

[ArkieDukie]

The truest words ever spoken by Trump are "This election will decide the future of the Country".

On to the pressing issue of today, yesterday, two months ago and 400 years ago: Black Lives Matter and systemic racism. I am white, grew up privileged and sheltered from the harshest parts of life. I have never considered myself racist - yes, I had a black friend or two as a kid and a few as an adult, and have always considered others as honest, trustworthy and an equal until he or she proved otherwise through their actions, and I'm not talking just about black and white. I never considered myself homophobic, but until I had friends and relatives "come out", I realized I probably was a little bit and didn't want to be, because I liked these people and wanted to continue the normal relationship I had with them, and if two men or two women wanted to get married, that was fine with me. OK, I've digressed. Let me get back on topic.

When John Carlos and Tommy Smith raised their fists on the medal stand in 1968 at the Olympics, I thought "how dumb". When Colin Kaepernick took his knee during the National Anthem, I thought "how dumb" and disrespectful. And lots of other stuff happened, people of color kept getting killed by police and other white people, and I thought "too bad, that shouldn't have happened" But it didn't sink in.

And then George Floyd died, on video, with a white cop kneeling on his neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds with other cops just standing by watching. And the light went on in my head. I understood why Kaepernick kneeled. I understood that true systemic change had to occur - there were, and are, far too many people who are racist, either covert (in the closet) or overt. Too many police are racist, too many judges, too many politicians, too many fiends and neighbors. And then Jacob Blake was shot in the back 7 times as he was getting into his car by another white cop, and it was caught on video. How can this cop be so stupid after all that has happened in the last 3 months? Because he's so racist. That's why.

Peaceful protest is good. Violent riots are terrible, and I believe that most of the violence and looting is intentionally started, provoked by racist anarchist groups who went to the protests to riot, gain publicity and to promote their causes.

If you don't think change needs to happen, that police actions (beating, shooting and killing black people) are justified, then you, my friend, are the problem. Plainly said, you are a racist. And there are far too many of you. Everywhere, including on this board and even in our tailgate. Please change your mind and your attitude. I'd like to keep you as my friend.

People responded to the video tweets by Duke Mens Basketball of Nolan Smith's, Coach K's and the other players saying they could no longer root for Duke Men's Basketball. Good and good riddance and don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

As Mike Buckmire's sign so poignantly asked: "Am I next?" I hope no one is next.

Donald Trump is a racist, and he proves it every day in his actions, his words and his policies. He is a despicable excuse for a human being and he has no business being our president - you might as well elect David Dukes or George Wallace (were he alive).

Excellent post, Ozzie. Agree with all of this.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I have copied and posted this OY in the #226 podcast thread. Until it is deleted. I haven't been "put on vacation" there in many years...

[gumbomoop]

So many important points above by CNC, CB&B, AD, and O4D. How to explain the fealty of decent people, our neighbors, to a man incapable of leading, an incompetent, sociopathic narcissist, pathological liar, sexual predator, racist?

The culture wars from the 1960s-70s have returned with a vengeance. Revived by Newt Gingrich in the ‘90s, dormant but festering for awhile. But festering, bilious poisons gathering, deepening, soul-destroying revulsion at abortion, immigrants “taking over our country,” gay marriage, transexuality, gender identity, every possible example of political correctness.

We now witness the eruption of anti-patriotic white nationaism in the guise of patriotism, acceptance of constitutional depredations in the name of “constitutional conservatism,” looking away from a scofflaw President and his Roy Cohn-thug Attorney General in the name of “law and order.”

More than a few Trump supporters acknowledge he’s a “buffoon.” But that’s a way to deflect, to avert the eyes, mind, and soul from far graver substantive issues. Trump’s enablers — not just Republican officeholders but tens of millions of voters — regularly claim that Trump’s opponents “take him too seriously.” But they are unwilling to take him seriously, as to do so would require substantive examination of common sense evidence, the very run-of-the-mill evidence that would positively enrage them were Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden president.

Black thugs invading the suburbs, rape on their minds? Bring out the military, militarize the Blue Line. Citizen militias at the ready. Western civilization is at stake.

What’s at stake is our constitutional democratic republic. But about that, Trump supporters do not care. Worry about that outmoded system later, if ever.

Our fascist moment has arrived.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I truly believe the only way to rid this nation of the "them or us" state that we are in to get rid of social media and punditry "news".
However, neither is ever going to happen, and according to our constitution, it shouldn't. I don't see a future that is less divisive as long as both are in play.

It's not a sharp double edged sword, it's a rusty one. But this is what happens when "the people" are given the voice that they have now. Some speak wisely and TRUTHFULLY, others don't give a fuck as long as it advances their beliefs, and they spew whatever.

[Bob Green]

I am deeply concerned about the future of our Nation if Trump is re-elected. Ozzie is correct, Trump is a racist and despicable person. Folks have to go to the polls in record numbers and vote the scumbag out of office.

Getting rid of Trump is step one, but there is lots more work to do. Everyone must be treated with respect 24/7/365. Unfortunately, too many people are respectfully only when others are watching. Getting people to be respectful when no one is watching is key.

I posted at DBR that it feels like 1968. Fifty two years later and not a lot of progress made.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I am deeply concerned about the future of our Nation if Trump is re-elected. Ozzie is correct, Trump is a racist and despicable person. Folks have to go to the polls in record numbers and vote the scumbag out of office.

Getting rid of Trump is step one, but there is lots more work to do. Everyone must be treated with respect 24/7/365. Unfortunately, too many people are respectfully only when others are watching. Getting people to be respectful when no one is watching is key.

I posted at DBR that it feels like 1968. Fifty two years later and not a lot of progress made.

We swept it all under the rug for a few good years, though.

[JWill Stan]

I have copied and posted this OY in the #226 podcast thread. Until it is deleted. I haven't been "put on vacation" there in many years...

Visited OY to hurry and both spork you and post a positive reply. Hope it stays up.

[OPK]

I have copied and posted this OY in the #226 podcast thread. Until it is deleted. I haven't been "put on vacation" there in many years...

I Sporked it there — hope the sporks stick even if the post does not!

[dudog]

People responded to the video tweets by Duke Mens Basketball of Nolan Smith's, Coach K's and the other players saying they could no longer root for Duke Men's Basketball. Good and good riddance and don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

What did I miss? Were people saying this OY? Or in general on the internet? The "basketball team protests at Duke" thread appears to be frozen, was a lot of stuff deleted?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

People responded to the video tweets by Duke Mens Basketball of Nolan Smith's, Coach K's and the other players saying they could no longer root for Duke Men's Basketball. Good and good riddance and don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

What did I miss? Were people saying this OY? Or in general on the internet? The "basketball team protests at Duke" thread appears to be frozen, was a lot of stuff deleted?

The videos were posted by the Duke MBB on Facebook, and that's where the comments I saw were made. Not OY. And as of right now, my post is still up!

[CrazyNotCrazie]

The truest words ever spoken by Trump are "This election will decide the future of the Country".

On to the pressing issue of today, yesterday, two months ago and 400 years ago: Black Lives Matter and systemic racism. I am white, grew up privileged and sheltered from the harshest parts of life. I have never considered myself racist - yes, I had a black friend or two as a kid and a few as an adult, and have always considered others as honest, trustworthy and an equal until he or she proved otherwise through their actions, and I'm not talking just about black and white. I never considered myself homophobic, but until I had friends and relatives "come out", I realized I probably was a little bit and didn't want to be, because I liked these people and wanted to continue the normal relationship I had with them, and if two men or two women wanted to get married, that was fine with me. OK, I've digressed. Let me get back on topic.

When John Carlos and Tommy Smith raised their fists on the medal stand in 1968 at the Olympics, I thought "how dumb". When Colin Kaepernick took his knee during the National Anthem, I thought "how dumb" and disrespectful. And lots of other stuff happened, people of color kept getting killed by police and other white people, and I thought "too bad, that shouldn't have happened" But it didn't sink in.

And then George Floyd died, on video, with a white cop kneeling on his neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds with other cops just standing by watching. And the light went on in my head. I understood why Kaepernick kneeled. I understood that true systemic change had to occur - there were, and are, far too many people who are racist, either covert (in the closet) or overt. Too many police are racist, too many judges, too many politicians, too many fiends and neighbors. And then Jacob Blake was shot in the back 7 times as he was getting into his car by another white cop, and it was caught on video. How can this cop be so stupid after all that has happened in the last 3 months? Because he's so racist. That's why.

Peaceful protest is good. Violent riots are terrible, and I believe that most of the violence and looting is intentionally started, provoked by racist anarchist groups who went to the protests to riot, gain publicity and to promote their causes.

If you don't think change needs to happen, that police actions (beating, shooting and killing black people) are justified, then you, my friend, are the problem. Plainly said, you are a racist. And there are far too many of you. Everywhere, including on this board and even in our tailgate. Please change your mind and your attitude. I'd like to keep you as my friend.

People responded to the video tweets by Duke Mens Basketball of Nolan Smith's, Coach K's and the other players saying they could no longer root for Duke Men's Basketball. Good and good riddance and don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

As Mike Buckmire's sign so poignantly asked: "Am I next?" I hope no one is next.

Donald Trump is a racist, and he proves it every day in his actions, his words and his policies. He is a despicable excuse for a human being and he has no business being our president - you might as well elect David Dukes or George Wallace (were he alive).

Very well put. And thanks for posting it OY. Hopefully it will stay up. Here you are largely preaching to the choir. There that is generally the case too, but there are a few people there who need to read it. The character of the President is the ultimate litmus test. I could agree with him on everything but if I think he is a narcissistic racist sociopath, I cannot vote for him. All of the Lincoln Project people and a number of other Republicans have realized this and are supporting Biden. But in my book, anyone who votes for him is a racist, and is anti-American. They should be handed a sticker that says "Racist" when walking out of the polling place and be forced to wear it.

[Furniture]

I have copied and posted this OY in the #226 podcast thread. Until it is deleted. I haven't been "put on vacation" there in many years...

Visited OY to hurry and both spork you and post a positive reply. Hope it stays up.

OY?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I have copied and posted this OY in the #226 podcast thread. Until it is deleted. I haven't been "put on vacation" there in many years...

Visited OY to hurry and both spork you and post a positive reply. Hope it stays up.

OY?

OY is Over Yonder, the DBR bulletin boards.

[Furniture]

Visited OY to hurry and both spork you and post a positive reply. Hope it stays up.

OY?

OY is Over Yonder, the DBR bulletin boards.

Looks like the mods are on vacation there...