The Official "WWWD?" Thread

[ArkieDukie]

Oh, it gets better. At one of the breaks today, I happened to be outside at the same time as the postdoc in Road Runner's lab. She was supposed to be doing the data integration that Bar Minion presented at the meeting (combining my analysis with the analysis performed by a collaborator), and she was also blindsided. While we were outside together, I mentioned that Bar Minion had the utter gall to ask me how much I paid for my camera and accessories (rude bitch; I didn't answer). Postdoc's response was, "Okay, what the hell happened yesterday in that meeting?" So we started comparing notes. She also did not know that Bar Minion was working on something she was supposed to be doing and also noticed that Bar Minion couldn't answer easy questions over her analysis (that was actually her husband's work). As the day progressed, we put more pieces together. The data integration that the postdoc was supposed to be working on required some data from the postdoc of our collaborator down the road. She asked him specifically about one particular type of analysis, and he told her that they hadn't done the analysis. The information that the postdoc requested was in Bar Minion's presentation. It turns out that we were done in by the Chinese Mafia. Bar Minion's husband (who actually performed the analysis that Bar Minion presented) works with the postdoc of our collaborator (who is also Chinese). This postdoc sat with Bar Minion today at the conference, and they were doing much talking and working during one of the talks. Postdoc and I noted this and put all the pieces together. Not only did her husband do the analysis she presented, he was working with the postdoc of our collaborator. The guy intentionally withheld information from Road Runner's postdoc so that Bar Minion would be able to do the work and the postdoc wouldn't be able to. Road Runner does not have this little jewel of information, but she will after her postdoc has a little chat with her.

I didn't really mention this before, but Road Runner's timing on Bar Minion's presentation was done in such a way that it made the postdoc and I look bad (it was just after we had gone over the problems with the data integration). Boom - here comes Bar Minion's presentation with the data integration. That's what made the whole situation that much worse. Not only did Road Runner throw both of us under the bus, she did it in a very public forum. It's going to be very, very difficult to get past that.

[ArkieDukie]

It is time to apply another of Windsor's Rules. We will now discuss Kahn's Law. Kahn?
Not Gengis not Kubla not Madeline no, not even Kahn Academy... THE KAHN....Khan Noonien Singh.

Utter of the great truth on Star Date 8130.3

Revenge is a Dish Best Served Cold (crediting an old Klingon Proverb)

You really can't do much...now. You are not in a position of strength. However there will come a day, I promise it will come - when RR and/or Bar Mininion comment on something you have done in a positive light. You will smile, you will say thank you. You will tilt your head 30 degrrees to the right and smile and say "...and I don't have husband, so I did it all by myself" smile, straighten head, turn on your heels and exit. stage left. BANG.

Kahn's Law is exquisite.

Also..if you even suspect that you and Bar Minion are working on the same thing you check with RR a la "so we don't have an enormous duplication of effort like we did with <whatever it was that just happened> " and verify that Bar Minion is NOT doing the same work. If she is, you may have go to RR or The Boss and get it sorted out. "I will be happy to do this but Bar Minion is doing the identical work - that doesn't seem very efficient...is there something else one of us should be doing" This should, of course be in writing.


In other news - I am kicking myself - I just moments ago finished carving my pumpkins for tomorrow (snoopy and linus with/great pumpkin) and then what do I find...a stencil for road runner and Wile E Coyote. DAMN!!!

Thanks, windsor. I may have the opportunity to do this very soon. Road Runner's talk is tomorrow, and she has a few slides with the results of the analysis that I did. Of course, she will also have some slides with Bar Minion's (husband's) results, and that will likely overshadow any of my work.

Windsor, the only problem with your suggested plan is that Road Runner lied to me THIS time about Bar Minion duplicating my work. From here on out, there's absolutely no way I can ever trust her to answer that question - or any question - honestly. In my mind, once you tell me a lie of that magnitude, I will have a very difficult time believing anything you say. Handling things the way she did (blindsiding me in a meeting with Bar Minion's presentation) made the situation 100 times worse. Road Runner has blown a MAJOR hole in our working relationship, and I'm not sure it can ever be repaired.

[DukieInKansas]

No advice to add but I will send some pointy toed shin kicks Road Runners way. Just tell me when I should stop.

Keep going, unless you're really tired.

The exercise is good for me.

[windsor]

It is time to apply another of Windsor's Rules. We will now discuss Kahn's Law. Kahn?
Not Gengis not Kubla not Madeline no, not even Kahn Academy... THE KAHN....Khan Noonien Singh.

Utter of the great truth on Star Date 8130.3

Revenge is a Dish Best Served Cold (crediting an old Klingon Proverb)

You really can't do much...now. You are not in a position of strength. However there will come a day, I promise it will come - when RR and/or Bar Mininion comment on something you have done in a positive light. You will smile, you will say thank you. You will tilt your head 30 degrrees to the right and smile and say "...and I don't have husband, so I did it all by myself" smile, straighten head, turn on your heels and exit. stage left. BANG.

Kahn's Law is exquisite.

Also..if you even suspect that you and Bar Minion are working on the same thing you check with RR a la "so we don't have an enormous duplication of effort like we did with <whatever it was that just happened> " and verify that Bar Minion is NOT doing the same work. If she is, you may have go to RR or The Boss and get it sorted out. "I will be happy to do this but Bar Minion is doing the identical work - that doesn't seem very efficient...is there something else one of us should be doing" This should, of course be in writing.


In other news - I am kicking myself - I just moments ago finished carving my pumpkins for tomorrow (snoopy and linus with/great pumpkin) and then what do I find...a stencil for road runner and Wile E Coyote. DAMN!!!

Thanks, windsor. I may have the opportunity to do this very soon. Road Runner's talk is tomorrow, and she has a few slides with the results of the analysis that I did. Of course, she will also have some slides with Bar Minion's (husband's) results, and that will likely overshadow any of my work.

Windsor, the only problem with your suggested plan is that Road Runner lied to me THIS time about Bar Minion duplicating my work. From here on out, there's absolutely no way I can ever trust her to answer that question - or any question - honestly. In my mind, once you tell me a lie of that magnitude, I will have a very difficult time believing anything you say. Handling things the way she did (blindsiding me in a meeting with Bar Minion's presentation) made the situation 100 times worse. Road Runner has blown a MAJOR hole in our working relationship, and I'm not sure it can ever be repaired.

I get that, but buy verifying via e-mail you will at least have proof of the lie(s). That could come in mighty handly one day.

[ArkieDukie]

Didn't want to copy the entire message above, but I may still have electronic proof of THIS lie. I asked her via email if Bar Minion was duplicating my work, and she said, if I recall correctly, "I don't think so."

Man, I hope I kept that message.

[windsor]

Didn't want to copy the entire message above, but I may still have electronic proof of THIS lie. I asked her via email if Bar Minion was duplicating my work, and she said, if I recall correctly, "I don't think so."

Man, I hope I kept that message.

I should have added that as a bonus RR knows what she did. She knows you know. By sending those 'just checking' e-mails you are putting her on notice that you know what is going on and will not be fooled again.

[ArkieDukie]

Today's fun: Bar Minion and her friend (collaborator's postdoc who withheld data from RR postdoc) sat together at the back of the room and worked together for the entire day today. At one of the breaks, they went up to another of our collaborators, showed him what they had been working on, and asked him for his data. He agreed to send it to them. This is the one collaborator that actually HAD been cooperating with RR postdoc. She already has the data that Bar Minion and her little crony requested. So, yes, the lying, backstabbing bitch went around her colleague to get data that her colleague has already been working with.

RR Postdoc and I are threatening to work together to squash Bar Minion like a bug. Brilliant Grad Student wants to join in the fun as well. All of us have now been stabbed in the back by Bar Minion, and we're all fed up. Would windsor support the action of showing up Bar Minion at her own game by performing a high-level analysis that she herself cannot perform? I believe that any one of us is at least twice as smart as Bar Minion, so together we could move mountains. After all, none of us are married, so we have to be smart enough to do our own work. ;)

Also, what does windsor think of requesting a meeting with Road Runner, "in order to clarify my role in her research, given Bar Minion's presentation on Tuesday"?

[YmoBeThere]

RR Postdoc and I are threatening to work together to squash Bar Minion like a bug.

Don't threaten, just do it!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

RR Postdoc and I are threatening to work together to squash Bar Minion like a bug.

Don't threaten, just do it!

Agreed. And then get a job with an industrial company and get out of that wretched place. GTHc

[windsor]

Today's fun: Bar Minion and her friend (collaborator's postdoc who withheld data from RR postdoc) sat together at the back of the room and worked together for the entire day today. At one of the breaks, they went up to another of our collaborators, showed him what they had been working on, and asked him for his data. He agreed to send it to them. This is the one collaborator that actually HAD been cooperating with RR postdoc. She already has the data that Bar Minion and her little crony requested. So, yes, the lying, backstabbing bitch went around her colleague to get data that her colleague has already been working with.

RR Postdoc and I are threatening to work together to squash Bar Minion like a bug. Brilliant Grad Student wants to join in the fun as well. All of us have now been stabbed in the back by Bar Minion, and we're all fed up. Would windsor support the action of showing up Bar Minion at her own game by performing a high-level analysis that she herself cannot perform? I believe that any one of us is at least twice as smart as Bar Minion, so together we could move mountains. After all, none of us are married, so we have to be smart enough to do our own work. ;)

Also, what does windsor think of requesting a meeting with Road Runner, "in order to clarify my role in her research, given Bar Minion's presentation on Tuesday"?

You have Windsor's blessing to introduce the Chinese mafia to good ol' 'merican KARMA. Squash away.

I think a meeting (professional as all hell) with RR is a perfect. Brilliant move grasshopper.

[ArkieDukie]

Today's fun: Bar Minion and her friend (collaborator's postdoc who withheld data from RR postdoc) sat together at the back of the room and worked together for the entire day today. At one of the breaks, they went up to another of our collaborators, showed him what they had been working on, and asked him for his data. He agreed to send it to them. This is the one collaborator that actually HAD been cooperating with RR postdoc. She already has the data that Bar Minion and her little crony requested. So, yes, the lying, backstabbing bitch went around her colleague to get data that her colleague has already been working with.

RR Postdoc and I are threatening to work together to squash Bar Minion like a bug. Brilliant Grad Student wants to join in the fun as well. All of us have now been stabbed in the back by Bar Minion, and we're all fed up. Would windsor support the action of showing up Bar Minion at her own game by performing a high-level analysis that she herself cannot perform? I believe that any one of us is at least twice as smart as Bar Minion, so together we could move mountains. After all, none of us are married, so we have to be smart enough to do our own work. ;)

Also, what does windsor think of requesting a meeting with Road Runner, "in order to clarify my role in her research, given Bar Minion's presentation on Tuesday"?

You have Windsor's blessing to introduce the Chinese mafia to good ol' 'merican KARMA. Squash away.

I think a meeting (professional as all hell) with RR is a perfect. Brilliant move grasshopper.

Postdoc and I have several ideas for proceeding, and RR is going to be out of town for 3 weeks. Bar Minion does not know what she has brought down upon herself.

I have already warned my partner in crime of Bar Minion's history of making hostile workplace claims when she is one-upped. She was not amused.

[awhom111]

I have nothing to add here except that Roadrunner also happens to be my nickname. This was not a problem before, but now it seems to be an issue.

Also, the actual Chinese mafia (thanks for attempting to firebomb my favorite restaurant) laughs at the academic Chinese mafia.

[Turk]

You have Windsor's blessing to introduce the Chinese mafia to good ol' 'merican KARMA. Squash away.

I think a meeting (professional as all hell) with RR is a perfect. Brilliant move grasshopper.

Postdoc and I have several ideas for proceeding, and RR is going to be out of town for 3 weeks. Bar Minion does not know what she has brought down upon herself.

I have already warned my partner in crime of Bar Minion's history of making hostile workplace claims when she is one-upped. She was not amused.

I don't like it. You're putting the cart before the horse. You've stated the primary goal of your activity is a personal vendetta against a co-worker whom you hold in low esteem. Does that pass Windsor's "WTA" test? I think not. Getting co-conspirators into this makes it worse. The whole episode sounds like middle school cafeteria nonsense to me.

Now, if you and your colleagues identify an opportunity for some high-level analysis that will uncover new insights, because you are a talented and motivated research professional, that's taking the high road. Go that way.

As for the meeting with RR, you definitely need it. Be as unemotional and analytic as Spock. Live long and prosper.

[ArkieDukie]

I don't like it. You're putting the cart before the horse. You've stated the primary goal of your activity is a personal vendetta against a co-worker whom you hold in low esteem. Does that pass Windsor's "WTA" test? I think not. Getting co-conspirators into this makes it worse. The whole episode sounds like middle school cafeteria nonsense to me.

Now, if you and your colleagues identify an opportunity for some high-level analysis that will uncover new insights, because you are a talented and motivated research professional, that's taking the high road. Go that way.

As for the meeting with RR, you definitely need it. Be as unemotional and analytic as Spock. Live long and prosper.

Turk, thanks for your insights. You're correct. Would it make you feel better if I said that we ARE going to perform high-level analysis that will provide new insights? Now I'm not sure if it's even worth it since my work will probably not see the light of day in a publication.

I asked for a meeting with RoadRunner and was told that she would be more than happy to meet with me at any time and that my role in the project is not impacted at all. This is bullsnot. She's planning to include both my analysis and Bar Minion's (husband's), but she has not thought about the implications of this. I found out her plan late this afternoon and realized on the way home that it won't work. I just sent her an email that pointed out the flaw in this plan, and I think I did a pretty good job of being rational and professional - especially since the final answer is that she has to use Bar Minion's (husband's) work. I originally included a bit of a tirade (but reasonably rational) about the unacceptable nature of her actions in throwing her own postdoc and I under the bus in the setting that she chose (not using those words), but I left it all out in favor of the simple explanation of "you have to use Bar Minion's analysis and not mine." I had also written an "adding insult to injury" paragraph in which I voiced my low opinion of getting bus-tossed in favor of someone who had her husband do her work for her. Sure felt good to write it, but I figured I'd be better off not including any of that stuff - even if I was careful to say "in my opinion" as much as possible and not be accusatory.

[ArkieDukie]

I don't like it. You're putting the cart before the horse. You've stated the primary goal of your activity is a personal vendetta against a co-worker whom you hold in low esteem. Does that pass Windsor's "WTA" test? I think not. Getting co-conspirators into this makes it worse. The whole episode sounds like middle school cafeteria nonsense to me.

Now, if you and your colleagues identify an opportunity for some high-level analysis that will uncover new insights, because you are a talented and motivated research professional, that's taking the high road. Go that way.

As for the meeting with RR, you definitely need it. Be as unemotional and analytic as Spock. Live long and prosper.

Turk, thanks for your insights. You're correct. Would it make you feel better if I said that we ARE going to perform high-level analysis that will provide new insights? Now I'm not sure if it's even worth it since my work will probably not see the light of day in a publication.

I asked for a meeting with RoadRunner and was told that she would be more than happy to meet with me at any time and that my role in the project is not impacted at all. This is bullsnot. She's planning to include both my analysis and Bar Minion's (husband's), but she has not thought about the implications of this. I found out her plan late this afternoon and realized on the way home that it won't work. I just sent her an email that pointed out the flaw in this plan, and I think I did a pretty good job of being rational and professional - especially since the final answer is that she has to use Bar Minion's (husband's) work. I originally included a bit of a tirade (but reasonably rational) about the unacceptable nature of her actions in throwing her own postdoc and I under the bus in the setting that she chose (not using those words), but I left it all out in favor of the simple explanation of "you have to use Bar Minion's analysis and not mine." I had also written an "adding insult to injury" paragraph in which I voiced my low opinion of getting bus-tossed in favor of someone who had her husband do her work for her. Sure felt good to write it, but I figured I'd be better off not including any of that stuff - even if I was careful to say "in my opinion" as much as possible and not be accusatory.

The response from Road Runner was that my anaysis would be in the current paper, and Bar Minion would be writing a paper on her analysis. So, here's the translation: my 1000+ hours of analysis is going to be a throwaway figure in a paper where I'm buried down at the bottom of the list of coauthors. It's not even about our project. Bar Minion, with the analysis that she didn't even do, gets first authorship on the major paper presenting the results of the study. My 1000+ hours of work on this were for nothing. I told Road Runner that I do not want to be a coauthor on Bar Minion's paper, and I do not want any of my work to be included in her paper. The reasoning is the same as for the last paper I removed my name from: Bar Minion's husband performed the analysis using one of the worst possible methods, and I don't want to be blamed for it. The other reason is that, last time I was a coauthor for Bar Minion when she was first author, I made all of the figures and wrote the majority of the paper. I am sick and tired of being used to make her look good.

Monday is going to be the time for the meeting with Road Runner. It is time to ask her, face to face, why she chose to be dishonest regarding Bar Minion's analysis. She has plenty of time to make up lies and half-truths via email; maybe in person she will be honest. Hopefully I can manage to not cry.

Road Runner just sent out the poster she will be presenting at an upcoming professional meeting. I'm buried down in the middle of the list of coauthors, behind Bar Minion and several other people. Over half of the figures in the poster are my work. It's just a poster and doesn't really matter, but it makes a pretty strong statement.

[DukieInKansas]

The shin kicks continue. I'm liking the exercise.

[ArkieDukie]

The shin kicks continue. I'm liking the exercise.

Thanks for making me laugh. I needed it.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

You need to work somewhere else. Again.

[ArkieDukie]

You need to work somewhere else. Again.

I think you may be right, Ozzie. Makes me sad. Also not good because I've been here for less than 2 years. I am concerned that will become increasingly difficult for me to get a job, with the frequent job changes.

Of course, with the amount of time it took for me to find my last job (roughly a year), I can start looking now and likely will not find anything immediately.

[Very Duke Blue]

Is the the norm for research programs all over, so cut throat? What you have been through and are going through is horrible. There has to be a better place to work. I really feel for you.