Lavabe's Madagascar 2009 Lemur Thread

[DevilAlumna]

Indeed a beautiful tribute, Lavabe.

I hope you're feeling better! Severe dehydration sounds severely unpleasant.

Perhaps an odd question, but how tall, on average, are the malagasy men? I understand that a tall, white guy would really stand out there, I'm just trying to get a mental picture of how much higher your head would be in a crowd.

[CathyCA]

Then why did they do it? I think there are several reasons. First, it was a way to keep my memory with them. Frankly, there are other such Camps in Ankarana and in other parks in the north of Madagascar. I had been gone a long time, so memories needed to be reminded. Secondly, my presence at the site was a key conservation move by one of the villagers in the west of Mt. d'Ambre, Jaomaro. He recognized that my presence would mean a tacit agreement among all not to touch the forest. This is where the tall foreigner worked and lived. This is where he is; don't disturb it. So when he brought me there the first time, he had a plan. Frankly, this is not unique to Madagascar, as the presence of researchers in other parts of the world often has the same effect. In most cases, we act as a barrier, as a means of protecting the forest edge.

The trust that the Malagasy have placed in you as their role model for conserving the forest must be quite humbling. How amazing that you've been able to teach and inspire them to preserve the lemurs' habitats, even if their primary motivation is to preserve it for the tall foreigner who works there.

YAY for you! YAY for the lemurs!

[Lavabe]

Then why did they do it? I think there are several reasons. First, it was a way to keep my memory with them. Frankly, there are other such Camps in Ankarana and in other parks in the north of Madagascar. I had been gone a long time, so memories needed to be reminded. Secondly, my presence at the site was a key conservation move by one of the villagers in the west of Mt. d'Ambre, Jaomaro. He recognized that my presence would mean a tacit agreement among all not to touch the forest. This is where the tall foreigner worked and lived. This is where he is; don't disturb it. So when he brought me there the first time, he had a plan. Frankly, this is not unique to Madagascar, as the presence of researchers in other parts of the world often has the same effect. In most cases, we act as a barrier, as a means of protecting the forest edge.

The trust that the Malagasy have placed in you as their role model for conserving the forest must be quite humbling. How amazing that you've been able to teach and inspire them to preserve the lemurs' habitats, even if their primary motivation is to preserve it for the tall foreigner who works there.

YAY for you! YAY for the lemurs!

No, the Antankarana have preserved their forests for way longer than I've been around. The lemurs at my site have had humans go through their home ranges for the last at least 100 years, so I'm not really teaching any local people anything, so much as I am learning from them. My presence can deter the non-native people from breaking local traditions. In that case, I am following what the Antankarana have long believed.

Funny, but when I met Jaomaro this time (you can see his photo on FB), I told him up front, in front of my Malagasy student, that I learned more about conservation from him, than I have from any book. Jaomaro is a farmer, and as I've gathered from my father-in-law, he has a lot to tell about the land.

You are absolutely correct on another point. The trust they've given me is ... well, that's another story for another time (I can see ILJ thinking and recalling which story I'll tell for that one), but I think you're absolutely right in calling that humbling.

[Lavabe]

Indeed a beautiful tribute, Lavabe.

I hope you're feeling better! Severe dehydration sounds severely unpleasant.

Perhaps an odd question, but how tall, on average, are the malagasy men? I understand that a tall, white guy would really stand out there, I'm just trying to get a mental picture of how much higher your head would be in a crowd.

I'm much better on the dehydration now. Note to self: next time, bring Gatorade and vitamins. And SlimJims. And seriously... a little salt with Coca-Cola is VERY good for dehydration.

The average height of a man in Madagascar can't be more than 5'6" or 5'8". ILJ would have a better sense, as she is closer to that height than I will ever be. Oddly enough, my Joffreville brother, Bejoma, is a tall 5'10". So, we were always referred to as brothers, based on our height. I'll see if I have a photo that shows just how much taller I am. The difference is scary.

[ILoveJimmy]

Indeed a beautiful tribute, Lavabe.

I hope you're feeling better! Severe dehydration sounds severely unpleasant.

Perhaps an odd question, but how tall, on average, are the malagasy men? I understand that a tall, white guy would really stand out there, I'm just trying to get a mental picture of how much higher your head would be in a crowd.

I'm much better on the dehydration now. Note to self: next time, bring Gatorade and vitamins. And SlimJims. And seriously... a little salt with Coca-Cola is VERY good for dehydration.

The average height of a man in Madagascar can't be more than 5'6" or 5'8". ILJ would have a better sense, as she is closer to that height than I will ever be. Oddly enough, my Joffreville brother, Bejoma, is a tall 5'10". So, we were always referred to as brothers, based on our height. I'll see if I have a photo that shows just how much taller I am. The difference is scary.

One of my favorite photos from 1991 was one I took of Lavabe with a woman who worked in the travel office or some government office in Diego. She was literally half his height and the photo is hilarious. I'll try to find it and scan and post it here. Then you'll see just how much he stands out there. I have put one photo from this year here that Ben put on Facebook recently.

[Lavabe]

I guess you can tell from the photo that I am not Gujirati. Which one of these, is not like the other?

There should soon be a few photos with me in the same picture as the president of the University of Antsiranana. She can not be taller than 5'2". ILJ: Remember how tall Francoise was? It should make for an interesting photo.

[captmojo]

A pair of questions.
What might be considered to be a point of population over-saturation amongst the lemurs?
What are the motivations for trappers?

[captmojo]

I guess you can tell from the photo that I am not Gujirati. Which one of these, is not like the other?

There should soon be a few photos with me in the same picture as the president of the University of Antsiranana. She can not be taller than 5'2". ILJ: Remember how tall Francoise was? It should make for an interesting photo.

I, like you, am a big mofo.

[Lavabe]

I guess you can tell from the photo that I am not Gujirati. Which one of these, is not like the other?

There should soon be a few photos with me in the same picture as the president of the University of Antsiranana. She can not be taller than 5'2". ILJ: Remember how tall Francoise was? It should make for an interesting photo.

I, like you, am a big mofo.

Sorry, I just misread this. "Mofo" in Malagasy means "bread." I initially read this to mean that you are a big piece of French bread. ;)

[captmojo]

Sorry, I just misread this. "Mofo" in Malagasy means "bread." I initially read this to mean that you are a big piece of French bread. ;)

I have this power.

[Lavabe]

A pair of questions.
What might be considered to be a point of population over-saturation amongst the lemurs?
What are the motivations for trappers?

1) Overpopulation: I'll be answering that more precisely once I get home, but let's just say that it's probably happening now in the region I just surveyed. 20+ years ago, a timber firm removed most forests where I just visited, making the surviving lemurs limited to just narrow strips of riverine forest. How narrow? Try no more than about 50 meters in some cases. In a forest that is no more than about 12 hectares (1 hectare=100m by 100m), I counted 6 or so lemurs groups, including a large 15 individual group of lemurs. Some of the lemur groups I study probably DO migrate, but little is known about this phenomenon.

2) Trapping: For the most part, if your traditions don't include taboos against hunting lemurs, you will view them as pests, if you own a farm. Having said that, I don't think this person I saw in the village grew ANY fruit, so that doesn't hold. I think he just wanted to eat them. I have to say that, if you'll recall from the thread over yonder, I have met my fair share of people who claim that lemurs taste good. Indeed, one of the comments on that thread (something about grilling them) was offered in jest, but I have heard it too often NOT uttered in jest.

Cheers,
Lavabe

[captmojo]

Sounds like some folks need an introduction to cows...and chickens....and lasers turned their direction.

[Lavabe]

Sounds like some folks need an introduction to cows...and chickens....and lasers turned their direction.

FWIW, zebu cattle are the national animal of Madagascar. They provide a lot of meat. Even with that, some people prefer the taste of wild game, including lemurs.

Chickens here are scrawny things.

Note to self: must get photos of scrawny chickens trying to cross the road.

[captmojo]

Makes me think of a joke.

[YmoBeThere]

Makes me think of a joke.

You shouldn't keep the joke to yourself...

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Makes me think of a joke.

You shouldn't keep the joke to yourself...

He put it in the joke thread.

[DukieInKansas]

Ben,

Thanks for sharing your story. I appreciate all the work you do to help conservation efforts for lemurs.

I went to the Como Park zoo in St. Paul yesterday and was hoping they would have lots of lemurs. They only had Sclater lemurs - who were sleeping. I was hoping to find more variety and activity.

Keep up the good work and take care of yourself. Vibes for health and success in your work.

DukieInKansas

[Lavabe]

Ben,

Thanks for sharing your story. I appreciate all the work you do to help conservation efforts for lemurs.

I went to the Como Park zoo in St. Paul yesterday and was hoping they would have lots of lemurs. They only had Sclater lemurs - who were sleeping. I was hoping to find more variety and activity.

Keep up the good work and take care of yourself. Vibes for health and success in your work.

DukieInKansas

Thanks for the words, DinK!

Zoos have an important role to fill in all of this, but don't be hard on them if they don't have the number and variety you'd hope for. Zoos have limited budgets and resources, so space and care are very limited. As a result, whenever you are dealing with rare and endangered primates (most lemur species qualify as this) zoos form taxon advisory groups (TAGs) so that the right individuals will be cared for in the right zoos. For example, it would be hard to manage the captive population of crowned lemurs if 15 zoos had one male and one female each. It makes more sense for zoos to keep in touch, say who is available for breeding in which zoo, then shift the right lemurs to that zoo. TAGs assure more effective captive management and breeding, and reduce the potential for inbreeding. It does mean, however, that few zoos have more than one species of lemur in captivity. FWIW, I am surprised that Como has one of the rarest of lemurs, Sclater's lemur (a.k.a. blue-eyed lemur). You are lucky to have seen it.

The Duke Lemur Center is obviously a very important resource in captive management of all lemur species. If you go on a tour of it, you will experience more species in one day than most people will ever see.

Cheers,
Lavabe

[Lavabe]

They only had Sclater lemurs - who were sleeping. I was hoping to find more variety and activity.

Okay, I am not picking on you for this. But you did touch on a major topic.

It's a frequent issue with zoos... and well, in the field as well. Here I am with only a few weeks left, and I haven't taken a single lemur photo. Why? I'm surveying for them, and I'm too busy counting/observing if and when I see them active. When they are most active is just before dusk, so priority goes to counting, instead of photographing. How dare those lemurs sleep every other time!

I recall in a documentary that John Cleese did a rant against ruffed lemurs who remained hidden from him for 2+ weeks. That is how I feel A LOT, but I have learned to respect and treasure those moments that I get to see them at all.

There are really no guarantees that any zoo animal will be active at any set time... unless you know the feeding schedule. I took a class of mine to a zoo, and had a pair of students watch bamboo lemurs sleeping for a whole 45 minutes. 5 minutes later, the zoo staff fed the lemurs... they were bouncing little lemurs!

The people who really feel the pressure are tour guides here, whose tips depend on whether their clients see lemurs. I do know of quite a few guides who provision the lemurs (give them bananas) , which is a BIG no-no, as it changes their behavior. However, if the tourist sees a lemur for a few minutes, the tourist is more likely to be satisfied, and will most likely give a stronger tip.

As for me, I'm thankful for every lemur group I hear and see.
Cheers,
Lavabe

[Lavabe]

As I've mentioned on my FB site, I am heading home a week earlier than originally planned. Surveys and work have been going fast and effective. Unfortunately, part of it is due to the fact that there is more deforestation than originally estimated. However, all is fine with me, and the prospects for future behavioral work are great, especially at my former site and at a new site near the town of Andranofanjava.

On FB, I have posted photos of the Andranofanjava forest, the most recent survey, and hiking in this region. FWIW, the hiking is insane.

I think ILJ, LL, and Georgia the Wonderdog are happy to have me head home a little earlier than expected.

Cheers,
Lavabe