Thanks, DPA. To say that this was not an easy decision is an understatement of epic proportions. Too bad my boss wouldn't listen to me over 2 months ago when I first asked to have my name removed from the manuscript. At least it's off now, and if they get called on falsification it's on my boss's head rather than mine.DukePA wrote:Dayummmm. That being said, AD, you're my Sheroe! You rock and I am so proud to call you my friend. Way to stand up with integrity, honesty and dignity. Very well done! You must celebrate! Go DUKE! GTHC!ArkieDukie wrote:I received the final draft of the manuscript today, and I found out why I was excluded from last week's meetings. My boss let them do something that basically invalidated all the statistical analysis that I did. Once my boss finally put in an appearance, I went into his office and told him I wanted my name removed from the manuscript. Amazingly, this time he agreed with no discussion. I then sent an e-mail to him, Pushy PI, and The Minion which said, "After much thought and careful consideration, I respectfully request that my name be removed from the list of coauthors." After that, I wrote my boss a message that outlined the reasons that I wanted my name removed. All 8 of them included either outright falsification or misrepresentation of the data. Notably absent from my list: the decision they made last week that invalidated my work. I then made an appointment to chat with someone at the Academic Integrity office and have just returned home from that meeting. What I have learned is this: we're really in a holding pattern until they submit the manuscript that includes the fraudulent statements. As it currently stands, there are a few statements that are outright lies, but most of the others are worded in such a way that they are subject to interpretation. Those are harder to prove. It's also a good thing that I've started putting everything in writing. Relevant documents that I currently have: draft with my comments that were ignored, current draft, and message to my boss that lists the problems I have with the manuscript. I'll have to dig through my e-mail messages to see what other items I might need to include.
A humorous note: one of my concerns is the manner in which the dealt with The Minion's analysis mistake. They chose to completely omit all description of what she did. Instead, they refer to a figure in the supplemental data. The figure says what she should've done rather than what she actually did.
an interesting dilemma...
Moderator: CameronBornAndBred
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Re: an interesting dilemma...
Most people say that is it is the intellect which makes a great scientist. They are wrong: it is character.
-- Albert Einstein
-- Albert Einstein
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Re: an interesting dilemma...
Good job, AD. To echo DukePA, you're my Sheroe too! You rock!ArkieDukie wrote:I received the final draft of the manuscript today, and I found out why I was excluded from last week's meetings. My boss let them do something that basically invalidated all the statistical analysis that I did. Once my boss finally put in an appearance, I went into his office and told him I wanted my name removed from the manuscript. Amazingly, this time he agreed with no discussion. I then sent an e-mail to him, Pushy PI, and The Minion which said, "After much thought and careful consideration, I respectfully request that my name be removed from the list of coauthors." After that, I wrote my boss a message that outlined the reasons that I wanted my name removed. All 8 of them included either outright falsification or misrepresentation of the data. Notably absent from my list: the decision they made last week that invalidated my work. I then made an appointment to chat with someone at the Academic Integrity office and have just returned home from that meeting. What I have learned is this: we're really in a holding pattern until they submit the manuscript that includes the fraudulent statements. As it currently stands, there are a few statements that are outright lies, but most of the others are worded in such a way that they are subject to interpretation. Those are harder to prove. It's also a good thing that I've started putting everything in writing. Relevant documents that I currently have: draft with my comments that were ignored, current draft, and message to my boss that lists the problems I have with the manuscript. I'll have to dig through my e-mail messages to see what other items I might need to include.
A humorous note: one of my concerns is the manner in which the dealt with The Minion's analysis mistake. They chose to completely omit all description of what she did. Instead, they refer to a figure in the supplemental data. The figure says what she should've done rather than what she actually did.
Iron Duke #1471997.
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Re: an interesting dilemma...
I'm happy for you DA. I'm still sending vibes that you find a great job very soon.
- Ima Facultiwyfe
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Re: an interesting dilemma...
How nice to know that the light at the end of the tunnel probably isn't a train!!! Keep us posted on the job hunt. Get as close to us as ya can!
Love, Ima
Love, Ima
"We will never NEVER go away." -- D. Cutcliffe
- devildeac
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Re: an interesting dilemma...
I really can't think of much/anything else to say about this entire story except holy $h!t. This is just astounding to read. I admire your patience and integrity throughout the ordeal and hope you find relief, justice, vindication, and, above all, a new job in the next several months as your reward for tolerating the moral/ethical morass you have endured.ArkieDukie wrote:Thanks, DPA. To say that this was not an easy decision is an understatement of epic proportions. Too bad my boss wouldn't listen to me over 2 months ago when I first asked to have my name removed from the manuscript. At least it's off now, and if they get called on falsification it's on my boss's head rather than mine.DukePA wrote:Dayummmm. That being said, AD, you're my Sheroe! You rock and I am so proud to call you my friend. Way to stand up with integrity, honesty and dignity. Very well done! You must celebrate! Go DUKE! GTHC!ArkieDukie wrote:I received the final draft of the manuscript today, and I found out why I was excluded from last week's meetings. My boss let them do something that basically invalidated all the statistical analysis that I did. Once my boss finally put in an appearance, I went into his office and told him I wanted my name removed from the manuscript. Amazingly, this time he agreed with no discussion. I then sent an e-mail to him, Pushy PI, and The Minion which said, "After much thought and careful consideration, I respectfully request that my name be removed from the list of coauthors." After that, I wrote my boss a message that outlined the reasons that I wanted my name removed. All 8 of them included either outright falsification or misrepresentation of the data. Notably absent from my list: the decision they made last week that invalidated my work. I then made an appointment to chat with someone at the Academic Integrity office and have just returned home from that meeting. What I have learned is this: we're really in a holding pattern until they submit the manuscript that includes the fraudulent statements. As it currently stands, there are a few statements that are outright lies, but most of the others are worded in such a way that they are subject to interpretation. Those are harder to prove. It's also a good thing that I've started putting everything in writing. Relevant documents that I currently have: draft with my comments that were ignored, current draft, and message to my boss that lists the problems I have with the manuscript. I'll have to dig through my e-mail messages to see what other items I might need to include.
A humorous note: one of my concerns is the manner in which the dealt with The Minion's analysis mistake. They chose to completely omit all description of what she did. Instead, they refer to a figure in the supplemental data. The figure says what she should've done rather than what she actually did.
[redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.
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Re: an interesting dilemma...
Thanks, devildeac, and thanks to all of you who have supported me throughout this mess.
In case I haven't mentioned it lately, there's now officially no way in Hades that I will stay in my current job. I will not work for someone I can't trust, and my boss has shown himself to be an opportunistic backstabber IMO. Little does he know that he has greatly underestimated me.
In case I haven't mentioned it lately, there's now officially no way in Hades that I will stay in my current job. I will not work for someone I can't trust, and my boss has shown himself to be an opportunistic backstabber IMO. Little does he know that he has greatly underestimated me.
Most people say that is it is the intellect which makes a great scientist. They are wrong: it is character.
-- Albert Einstein
-- Albert Einstein
- Lavabe
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Re: an interesting dilemma...
This is truly sad, but I am VERY glad you have begun to talk with the academic integrity folks. Most of the folks in these offices are really good. Your discussion with them will help you survive the next few weeks. Your description of what has happened sounds exactly like one of the training scenes we get trained with.
100% behind you on this, AD!! I just hope their shenanigans will catch up with them.
100% behind you on this, AD!! I just hope their shenanigans will catch up with them.
2014, 2011, and 2009 Lemur Loving CTN NASCAR Champ. No lasers were used to win these titles.
- OZZIE4DUKE
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Re: an interesting dilemma...
AD, I'm glad that it finally all came to a head for you and that you FINALLY went to the Academic Integrity office. I'm sort of surprised you got to see them so quickly - same day you requested a meeting? Once they see all your documentation are they going to stand behind you and screw those three assholes to the wall?
Don't you wish you had done this months ago!
Don't you wish you had done this months ago!
Your paradigm of optimism
Go To Hell carolina! Go To Hell!
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Go To Hell carolina! Go To Hell!
9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F!
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- captmojo
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Re: an interesting dilemma...
This is great. I'm glad you have been able to protect your own integrity.
You win!
You win!
"Backboards? Backboards? I'll show'em what to do with a f%#kin' backboard!"
- windsor
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Re: an interesting dilemma...
You go girl!
If you haven't already please make sure you forward all releveant documents offsite somewhere lest there be a tragic error in your e-mail account that causes history to be lost...
If you haven't already please make sure you forward all releveant documents offsite somewhere lest there be a tragic error in your e-mail account that causes history to be lost...
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost; the old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost.
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Re: an interesting dilemma...
Good job, AD. You have just lived out the advice I gave to graduating seniors this year - remember that you have to look yourself in the eye each morning and let that guide you in your decisions. (For them, I made it late night decisions.)
I know it has been a long road but you have taken it with dignity, class, and, more importantly, integrity. Keep us posted on the academic integrity office dealings. Good luck with the job hunt.
I know it has been a long road but you have taken it with dignity, class, and, more importantly, integrity. Keep us posted on the academic integrity office dealings. Good luck with the job hunt.
Life is good!
- Ima Facultiwyfe
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Re: an interesting dilemma...
Since you've called a spade a spade, have you been less or more comfortable around the office? How many co-workers are aware of what has gone down? Any supporters?
Love, Ima
Love, Ima
"We will never NEVER go away." -- D. Cutcliffe
- CathyCA
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Re: an interesting dilemma...
And now you will have a very good story to tell in an interview when the interviewer asks, "Tell me about how you have handled conflicts at work."
I would be very brief and not name names in the retelling. . .
This must make you feel very good, AD. I hope that a new job offer comes along with more money and better scenery!
I would be very brief and not name names in the retelling. . .
This must make you feel very good, AD. I hope that a new job offer comes along with more money and better scenery!
“The invention of basketball was not an accident. It was developed to meet a need. Those boys simply would not play 'Drop the Handkerchief.'”
~ James Naismith
~ James Naismith
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Re: an interesting dilemma...
That's great advice, windsor. Thanks. I'll forward everything to my home account.windsor wrote:You go girl!
If you haven't already please make sure you forward all releveant documents offsite somewhere lest there be a tragic error in your e-mail account that causes history to be lost...
Most people say that is it is the intellect which makes a great scientist. They are wrong: it is character.
-- Albert Einstein
-- Albert Einstein
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Re: an interesting dilemma...
I definitely feel better. The few co-workers who are aware of the situation think that I made the correct decision; none of them are particularly fond of Pushy PI. I still haven't received a response from my boss regarding the reasons I wanted my name removed. My guess is that I never will. In fact, there's a pretty good chance he never read my e-mail message, which means the manuscript went out as it was.Ima Facultiwyfe wrote:Since you've called a spade a spade, have you been less or more comfortable around the office? How many co-workers are aware of what has gone down? Any supporters?
Love, Ima
Sadly, none of this was necessary. The manuscript would've been fine (better, in fact) on its own merits without including the extra data that was added at the end. Pushy PI and The Minion never understood this and they never will. Their crappy work weakens the manuscript - especially the section where The Minion miscalculated mean and standard deviation. That section alone makes me happy that my name is in no way associated with this work.
Now for the final dilemma: I have not seen the draft that was submitted, and I want to make sure that my name was removed. Truthfully, I don't want to be in the acknowledgments section, either. Aside from this, I want to see if they addressed any of the issues I pointed out to my boss. Of course, I can't say, "I want to see the manuscript so I can decide whether or not to report you to the Academic Integrity office." I think that a request to see it so I can be sure my name was removed is reasonable. Thoughts?
Most people say that is it is the intellect which makes a great scientist. They are wrong: it is character.
-- Albert Einstein
-- Albert Einstein
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Re: an interesting dilemma...
Thanks, Cathy. I hadn't thought about using this anecdote in a job interview, but I guess I could.CathyCA wrote:And now you will have a very good story to tell in an interview when the interviewer asks, "Tell me about how you have handled conflicts at work."
I would be very brief and not name names in the retelling. . .
This must make you feel very good, AD. I hope that a new job offer comes along with more money and better scenery!
I might also think of a way to use this as a reason for leaving my job. Aside from my boss asking me to look for a new job (which some people think he didn't mean), I can honestly say that I had some major philosophical problems with things that happened in the lab. I've said it before and I'll say it again, no one can pay me enough to lie or to falsify data.
Most people say that is it is the intellect which makes a great scientist. They are wrong: it is character.
-- Albert Einstein
-- Albert Einstein
- OZZIE4DUKE
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Re: an interesting dilemma...
You need to have a tactful way of saying that you couldn't work where sloppy lab work (research) and sloppier record keeping/calculations were encouraged and published for the sake of getting the results you wanted to get (or were paid to get). Obviously the way I just said it is NOT the way to say it, or you'll never get a job!ArkieDukie wrote:Thanks, Cathy. I hadn't thought about using this anecdote in a job interview, but I guess I could.CathyCA wrote:And now you will have a very good story to tell in an interview when the interviewer asks, "Tell me about how you have handled conflicts at work."
I would be very brief and not name names in the retelling. . .
This must make you feel very good, AD. I hope that a new job offer comes along with more money and better scenery!
I might also think of a way to use this as a reason for leaving my job. Aside from my boss asking me to look for a new job (which some people think he didn't mean), I can honestly say that I had some major philosophical problems with things that happened in the lab. I've said it before and I'll say it again, no one can pay me enough to lie or to falsify data.
Your paradigm of optimism
Go To Hell carolina! Go To Hell!
9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F!
http://ecogreen.greentechaffiliate.com
Go To Hell carolina! Go To Hell!
9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F! 9F!
http://ecogreen.greentechaffiliate.com
Re: an interesting dilemma...
I think you should definitely think of a way to tactfully include this saga in your next job interview. Just yesterday, I was asked about my experiences at Emory, and I had to think of how to tactfully but openly tell how things went down for me there. I ended up just being forthright, even briefly mentioning the emotional and existential struggles that resulted from my episode(s) there. Toward the end of the interview, the principal told me that he liked my honesty and what it said about my philosophy on education.OZZIE4DUKE wrote:You need to have a tactful way of saying that you couldn't work where sloppy lab work (research) and sloppier record keeping/calculations were encouraged and published for the sake of getting the results you wanted to get (or were paid to get). Obviously the way I just said it is NOT the way to say it, or you'll never get a job!ArkieDukie wrote:Thanks, Cathy. I hadn't thought about using this anecdote in a job interview, but I guess I could.CathyCA wrote:And now you will have a very good story to tell in an interview when the interviewer asks, "Tell me about how you have handled conflicts at work."
I would be very brief and not name names in the retelling. . .
This must make you feel very good, AD. I hope that a new job offer comes along with more money and better scenery!
I might also think of a way to use this as a reason for leaving my job. Aside from my boss asking me to look for a new job (which some people think he didn't mean), I can honestly say that I had some major philosophical problems with things that happened in the lab. I've said it before and I'll say it again, no one can pay me enough to lie or to falsify data.
Just my 2 cents...above all, Arkie, I'm glad that you're achieving further clarity and confidence that you're doing the right thing (I certainly think you've made a series of very good, albeit tough decisions).
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Re: an interesting dilemma...
Thanks for the tip, wilson, and also for the anecdote about your recent experiences. A part of me thinks that someone who views my attitude about data falsification as a negative trait is likely someone I would not want to work for. It's good to know that honesty worked in your favor in your recent interview. Sending vibes that you get good news from them soon.wilson wrote:I think you should definitely think of a way to tactfully include this saga in your next job interview. Just yesterday, I was asked about my experiences at Emory, and I had to think of how to tactfully but openly tell how things went down for me there. I ended up just being forthright, even briefly mentioning the emotional and existential struggles that resulted from my episode(s) there. Toward the end of the interview, the principal told me that he liked my honesty and what it said about my philosophy on education.OZZIE4DUKE wrote:You need to have a tactful way of saying that you couldn't work where sloppy lab work (research) and sloppier record keeping/calculations were encouraged and published for the sake of getting the results you wanted to get (or were paid to get). Obviously the way I just said it is NOT the way to say it, or you'll never get a job!
Just my 2 cents...above all, Arkie, I'm glad that you're achieving further clarity and confidence that you're doing the right thing (I certainly think you've made a series of very good, albeit tough decisions).
Most people say that is it is the intellect which makes a great scientist. They are wrong: it is character.
-- Albert Einstein
-- Albert Einstein
- Lavabe
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Re: an interesting dilemma...
The drawback in Arkie's situation is that the alleged data falsifier has yet to be formally accused,processed, and so forth, under the proper institutional guidelines. Having mention of the current employer on the CV AND some mention of falsifying would draw the attention of the potential employer. That employer MIGHT make some contact or even spread word about Arkie's current employer. This word could potentially get back to Arkie's current employer... BEFORE CHARGES WOULD HAVE BEEN MADE. None of this is what Arkie needs to have happen. Frankly, it would make it more difficult for the Academic Integrity folks to process any charge against the team.ArkieDukie wrote:Thanks for the tip, wilson, and also for the anecdote about your recent experiences. A part of me thinks that someone who views my attitude about data falsification as a negative trait is likely someone I would not want to work for. It's good to know that honesty worked in your favor in your recent interview. Sending vibes that you get good news from them soon.wilson wrote:I think you should definitely think of a way to tactfully include this saga in your next job interview. Just yesterday, I was asked about my experiences at Emory, and I had to think of how to tactfully but openly tell how things went down for me there. I ended up just being forthright, even briefly mentioning the emotional and existential struggles that resulted from my episode(s) there. Toward the end of the interview, the principal told me that he liked my honesty and what it said about my philosophy on education.OZZIE4DUKE wrote:You need to have a tactful way of saying that you couldn't work where sloppy lab work (research) and sloppier record keeping/calculations were encouraged and published for the sake of getting the results you wanted to get (or were paid to get). Obviously the way I just said it is NOT the way to say it, or you'll never get a job!
Just my 2 cents...above all, Arkie, I'm glad that you're achieving further clarity and confidence that you're doing the right thing (I certainly think you've made a series of very good, albeit tough decisions).
For the sake of fairness for the academic integrity folks, I wouldn't do anything to spoil the process.
What you CAN do is express your experience, expertise, and background in all aspects of chemistry, particularly research methods, data analysis, and whatever else that you do. At that point, you can state the ideal team situation that you are seeking, and mention how you are looking for a situation in which several things occur (one of which is a high regard for academic and scientific integrity).
Once the a-holes are found guilty, then you can SHIN KICK AWAY!!
2014, 2011, and 2009 Lemur Loving CTN NASCAR Champ. No lasers were used to win these titles.